Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

James Brown

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Labour have admitted themselves they didn't acknowledge the problem and took too long dealing with it. Labour members have left the party over internal abuse, two MP and three peers have quit over it. Hundreds of complaints were made in just the first 6 months of the year. There is a formal investigation ongoing by the EHRC.

I put much of that down to the Tory-light remaining Blairites fighting to keep the Labour party from being too left of the Tories.

Dohnjoe

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I put much of that down to the Tory-light remaining Blairites fighting to keep the Labour party from being too left of the Tories.

Fair enough but I put it down to antisemitism in the party that is being brushed under the carpet or played as a partisan issue instead of being dealt with sharply and properly

1641

Well the EHRC report of its investigation of Labour under Corbyn and his "socialist" crew is in:

An investigation into the Labour Party by the Equalities Watchdog has found it was responsible for unlawful acts of harassment and discrimination.

"The party is responsible for three breaches of the Equality Act (2010) relating to:

Political interference in antisemitism complaints.
Failure to provide adequate training to those handling antisemitism complaints.
Harassment

A report just published by the Equality and Human Rights Commission identified what it described as “serious failings in the Labour Party leadership in addressing antisemitism and an inadequate process for handling antisemitism complaints.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/oct/29/uk-politics-live-ehrc-to-publish-report-into-labour-and-antisemitism
https://news.sky.com/story/serious-failings-by-labour-leadership-over-antisemitism-report-concludes-12117641

Palmach

Bowie wrote: »

The public are beginning to realise it's baseless. I'd say it's actually starting to work for him as he's seen to be constantly under attack for nonsense to distract from Tory policy.

This aged well

Geuze

Can anybody quickly explain why some people might be against Jews?

I think they're great.

Funny, talented, loads of Nobel prizes.




Is it specifically because of Israel / West Bank / claims for land?

ohnonotgmail

Geuze wrote: »

Can anybody quickly explain why some people might be against Jews?

I think they're great.

Funny, talented, loads of Nobel prizes.




Is it specifically because of Israel / West Bank / claims for land?

knock yourself out. it has a long history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism

1641

Geuze wrote: »

Can anybody quickly explain why some people might be against Jews?

I think they're great.

Funny, talented, loads of Nobel prizes.




Is it specifically because of Israel / West Bank / claims for land?

I think as it is several centuries old we can rule that one out. Each era seems to find its own "reason" (ie, rationalisation) for something that is irrational. All societies seem to practice some form of scapegoating and Jews have long been convenient for this purpose:

"Process in which the mechanisms of projection or displacement are utilized in focusing feelings of aggression, hostility, frustration, etc., upon another individual or group; the amount of blame being unwarranted." Scapegoating is a hostile tactic often employed to characterize an entire group of individuals according to the unethical or immoral conduct of a small number of individuals belonging to that group. Scapegoating relates to guilt by association and stereotyping.

Scapegoated groups throughout history have included almost every imaginable group of people: genders, religions, people of different races, nations, or sexual orientations, people with different political beliefs, or people differing in behaviour from the majority.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoating

ohnonotgmail

1641 wrote: »

I think as it is several centuries old we can rule that one out. Each era seems to find its own "reason" (ie, rationalisation) for something that is irrational. All societies seem to practice some form of scapegoating and Jews have long been convenient for this purpose:

"Process in which the mechanisms of projection or displacement are utilized in focusing feelings of aggression, hostility, frustration, etc., upon another individual or group; the amount of blame being unwarranted." Scapegoating is a hostile tactic often employed to characterize an entire group of individuals according to the unethical or immoral conduct of a small number of individuals belonging to that group. Scapegoating relates to guilt by association and stereotyping.

Scapegoated groups throughout history have included almost every imaginable group of people: genders, religions, people of different races, nations, or sexual orientations, people with different political beliefs, or people differing in behaviour from the majority.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoating

more like several millenia old.

Eric Cartman

Geuze wrote: »

Can anybody quickly explain why some people might be against Jews?

I think they're great.

Funny, talented, loads of Nobel prizes.




Is it specifically because of Israel / West Bank / claims for land?

most of the modern hatred stems from their insular community practices and perceived control of the finance sector or media. Although the finance sector / money lending one is as old as the hills.

Geuze

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

knock yourself out. it has a long history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism

Thanks.

Really what I meant to ask was about anti-semitism within the UK Labour Party?

suicide_circus

Jews getting harassed by BLM people during riots in Philadelphia the other day too.

Eric Cartman

Geuze wrote: »

Thanks.

Really what I meant to ask was about anti-semitism within the UK Labour Party?

A long long history , theres a lot of resentment even from the older union stalwarts about jews running companies etc...

Silentcorner

Geuze wrote: »

Thanks.

Really what I meant to ask was about anti-semitism within the UK Labour Party?

It's what happens when the political ideology starts to veer in the more radical direction, it can happen at both ends of the political spectrum.

Anti Semitism is one of the most moronic of all prejudices based on perceived success and how it was obtained.

It is rife in the UK political left, and in the US.

Jews have been attacked in New York for some time now.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/open-season-on-jews-reports-of-anti-semitic-attacks-during-hanukkah-cause-for-concern/2250584/

You can thank Identity Politics for this wave of attacks on innocent Jews.

1641

Silentcorner wrote: »

it can happen at both ends of the political spectrum.

Anti Semitism is one of the most moronic of all prejudices based on perceived success and how it was obtained.

It is rife in the UK political left, and in the US.

Jews.

It is one of the great common markers of both the far left and far right. I guess both sides demand easy scapegoats.

MontgomeryClift

1641 wrote: »

It is one of the great common markers of both the far left and far right. I guess both sides demand easy scapegoats.

Scapegoats for what?

Geuze

Eric Cartman wrote: »

A long long history , theres a lot of resentment even from the older union stalwarts about jews running companies etc...

OK.

But I thought there were Jewish thinkers involved in socialism / communism?

Eric Cartman

Geuze wrote: »

OK.

But I thought there were Jewish thinkers involved in socialism / communism?

hypocrisy in politics...never...

1641

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

Scapegoats for what?

Scapegoats for whatever perceived grievances they might have at any particular point in time, or whatever problems they perceive society to have.

Poverty and spreading disease, sexual promiscuity, banking and capitalism, socialism and communism, war, pacifism, "riling up the negroes", exploiting the poor, being poor, atheism and undermining religion, being overly religious, sticking together, infiltrating everywhere, etc., etc. Add to the list as you like.

1641

Eric Cartman wrote: »

most of the modern hatred stems from their insular community practices and perceived control of the finance sector or media. Although the finance sector / money lending one is as old as the hills.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

A long long history , theres a lot of resentment even from the older union stalwarts about jews running companies etc...

Typical examples of stereotyping. Most jews in England were not rich, but as immigrants they worked and studied hard and got along. Most did not own companies and relatively few companies were "run by jews".

Historically a bigger proportion of Jews were involved in money-lending, although most were not. This was generally seen as fulfilling a useful purpose as "usury" was deemed as "sinful" for Christians and was generally banned - except for Jews. Christians could borrow from, and pay interest to, Jews without sin. Resentments often arose as regards paying it back though. As banking developed the proportion of Jews involved diminished, but the stereotype prevailed.

In many jurisdictions Jews were either banned, or restricted from, owning property. And, as pogroms were frequent, many preferred to keep any assets liquid in case they had to flee in a hurry (and gold was the preferred and most valuable currency).


On the other hand most Jews were poor, especially in eastern Europe. As such they were perceived as dirty and a reservoir for disease - particularly those who made a living by selling from village to village. You had the twin stereotypes of either the rich, fat Jew and the poor disease ridden Jew. Both stereotypes were magnified and promoted simultaneously by the Nazis, but they did not invent them.

Of course, there was also the specifically religious prejudice against Jews - Christ-killers, etc. A variation was stealing and eating Christian children.

So take any point in time and whatever grievances there are in society, you will always have some groups attributing blame to "the Jews".

James Brown

Eric Cartman wrote: »

hypocrisy in politics...never...

It's pathetic to zero in on a group like that and sadly becoming more common. We've seen it all before of course.

Eric Cartman

1641 wrote: »

Typical examples of stereotyping. Most jews in England were not rich, but as immigrants they worked and studied hard and got along. Most did not own companies and relatively few companies were "run by jews".

Historically a bigger proportion of Jews were involved in money-lending, although most were not. This was generally seen as fulfilling a useful purpose as "usury" was deemed as "sinful" for Christians and was generally banned - except for Jews. Christians could borrow from, and pay interest to, Jews without sin. Resentments often arose as regards paying it back though. As banking developed the proportion of Jews involved diminished, but the stereotype prevailed.

In many jurisdictions Jews were either banned, or restricted from, owning property. And, as pogroms were frequent, many preferred to keep any assets liquid in case they had to flee in a hurry (and gold was the preferred and most valuable currency).


On the other hand most Jews were poor, especially in eastern Europe. As such they were perceived as dirty and a reservoir for disease - particularly those who made a living by selling from village to village. You had the twin stereotypes of either the rich, fat Jew and the poor disease ridden Jew. Both stereotypes were magnified and promoted simultaneously by the Nazis, but they did not invent them.

Of course, there was also the specifically religious prejudice against Jews - Christ-killers, etc. A variation was stealing and eating Christian children.

So take any point in time and whatever grievances there are in society, you will always have some groups attributing blame to "the Jews".

this is my exact point, its always been based on stereotypes. people looked for something to hate and found it.