Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

StudentDad

I read somewhere once that when you were being signed into prison in Ireland, a few hundred years ago. You had a few options in terms of belief. Catholic, Protestant or Insane. I can't remember if Muslim was on the list.

The sad fact is to my mind anyway is that classification system hasn't gone away. So if anyone rocks up and says, 'nah, religion isn't for me.' It makes some people twitchy. Not something that's ever really bothered me.

Someone said earlier in the thread that the rise in anti-Semitism isn't political. I disagree. Religion and politics are unfortunately joined at the hip. In many cultures if you're unfortunate enough to be in the minority, good luck with that. We only have to look at the politics of this lovely little island to see that in action.

The sad part is that many people who have been dealt a really bad set of cards vote for the right wing crowd in the naive belief that said crowd actually gives a tuppenny damn about their plight.

SD

Odhinn

Amalgam wrote: »

It is a state that was created at the expense of another group, mainly Muslim. There is a polarised religious issue here, to try and, 'put that to one side', is delusional.

I'm simply stating the truth - Israel does not act, represent or speak for all Jews. The behaviour of the state of Israel is sadly typical of colonial/racist states, none of which were/are Jewish.

1641

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Never understood the opposition and negative behaviour towards Jewish people. So what happens if two or three Jewish families move into my estate? Like why would some people object? It's not like they have a different skin colour or that they even speak a different language!

So why is the stigma (by some) towards Jewish people? Anyone care to explain....

You really don't Know?


They murdered Jesus.
They don't accept Christ's salvation.
They are dirty smelly rats who carry disease.
They are rich parasites.
They are Marxists.
They are Fascists.
They control the world's media.
They control the world's banks.
They control the arms industry.
They conspire to cause wars.

They are an international conspiracy.
They are behind the "world government".
They are clever and cunning.
They are stupid and retarded.
They are lazy.
They control the professions and academia.



There are also many irrational reasons.

Hamsterchops

So the usual myth, slander and lie, and nothing more...

Amazing that people can believe such rubbish (in this day & age).

1641

Amalgam wrote: »

A perfect Israeli state, to a sizeable minority of Israeli Jews, is one where Arabs (Arab Israelis, not just Palestinians) are not within Israel's borders. Alive or dead, doesn't really matter.

That's not acceptable.

Simply untrue. There is a sizable Arab minority in Israel and they are not under any pressure to leave. Proof? They are there and participate in society. They sit in Parliament. If Israel wanted them all gone then surely they would be gone.

On the other hand, how many Jews live in Arab countries - or in somewhere like Iran? How many have have been expelled or pogrammed out over the past 80 years or so ? More than the Arabs who either fled or were forced to flee from Israel in 1948.


Is Israel a perfect society? Definately not. Is is perfect for the Arab minority ? No - but it is a lot better than it is for Jews in other middle eastern or north African countries.

Strumms

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3n8iHmdOYA4

I’ve interacted with and worked with a lot of Israeli people who were kind, intelligent, reasonable people, there however are existing within their culture a hardcore mentality of unreasonable, heartless, uncompromising, ignorant and downright violent. Leaving the violent out I’ve not experienced that but certainly all the above traits plus more such as bullying I’ve encountered . The video I’ve posted above is pretty shocking but indicative of much of that gang mentality and disregard for others who they might have a difference or two with.

The age demographic shows that this isn’t behavior learned as they get older but instilled in them from an early age.

To coral and attack this police woman, nobody in that large swathe of people to help, dissuade, urge calm... instead each person enabling the assault of this woman, who in doing nothing more than trying to do her job and enable the safe passage for a car and its occupants gets attacked by a group of men.

It’s sad but indicative of the attitude of certain groups of Israeli people towards ANYONE who disagrees or holds counter opinions to theirs. It’s engraved in the fiber of their existence it would seem.

Billy86

riffmongous wrote: »

They hate the EU but they'll do anything for Russians.

They arent alt-right though, they are much older and more established than that. Alt-right in Austria is tiny and more related to those Identitarian scum, whose leader 'was' also an anti-semite in his younger days

Fair point, and 'far right' would be a more accurate descriptor of Strache and the FPO I suppose. Sometimes it is easy to conflate the two, as they tend to move in lock step and because the alt right is just a failed attempt of an element of the far right to rebrand itself.

Which is probably why several people in 2015/16 were more than happy to claim to be alt right and respond to all efforts to show them what that was with the old "everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi" meme, yet now get extremely defensive the moment someone calls their views alt-right.

But yeah, if I'm right the FPO have been prominent since the 80s/90s at the least and around for a few decades before that, so far right might make more sense there.

Odhinn

1641 wrote: »

Simply untrue. There is a sizable Arab minority in Israel and they are not under any pressure to leave. Proof? They are there and participate in society. They sit in Parliament. If Israel wanted them all gone then surely they would be gone.

On the other hand, how many Jews live in Arab countries - or in somewhere like Iran? How many have have been expelled or pogrammed out over the past 80 years or so ? More than the Arabs who either fled or were forced to flee from Israel in 1948.


Is Israel a perfect society? Definately not. Is is perfect for the Arab minority ? No - but it is a lot better than it is for Jews in other middle eastern or north African countries.

You might research the treatment of the Palestinian population of Arab East Jerusalem before fully comitting to the notion that they aren't under pressure to leave.


Virtually every Israeli party is committed to "maintaining the majority", which essentially means not annexing in Palestinians and giving them citizenship. It's why it never annexed the West Bank in its entirety and Palestinian citizens of Arab East Jerusalem were never granted citizenship, despite that areas annexation.

1641

Odhinn wrote: »

You might research the treatment of the Palestinian population of Arab East Jerusalem before fully comitting to the notion that they aren't under pressure to leave.


Virtually every Israeli party is committed to "maintaining the majority", which essentially means not annexing in Palestinians and giving them citizenship. It's why it never annexed the West Bank in its entirety and Palestinian citizens of Arab East Jerusalem were never granted citizenship, despite that areas annexation.

Are you saying Arab East Jerusalem is part of Israel ? Is it not the "Occupied Territories"? But back to the point - Have the Arab population of Israel been forced to leave? How about the Jewish population of the multitude of other countries in the region? If the Israelis are far from perfect (which they are) where does it leave their neighbours in the pecking order?



Of course, most Israeli parties are committed to maintaining the majority in Israel. Otherwise Israel will cease to exist and the Jews will be forced out - just like they have been across the region.

But not "all Israeli parties" hold this view - not Ta'al or the United Arab List. And of the rest (secular, religious, rightist, centrist and leftist), there are a variety of positions represented as to the Peace Process, the "Two State Solution" and the future of the West Bank. As there are on the Arab/Palestinian side.

Odhinn

1641 wrote: »

Are you saying Arab East Jerusalem is part of Israel ? Is it not the "Occupied Territories"?

It's been annexed - along with its population - by Israel. The population is slowly being forced out.

1641 wrote: »

But back to the point - Have the Arab population of Israel been forced to leave? How about the Jewish population of the multitude of other countries in the region? If the Israelis are far from perfect (which they are) where does it leave their neighbours in the pecking order?

Seeing as nobody has held up neighbouring states as examples of high moral behaviour I'm unsure why you're going on as if they had.

1641

Odhinn wrote: »

Seeing as nobody has held up neighbouring states as examples of high moral behaviour I'm unsure why you're going on as if they had.

Because this conflict is always portrayed by the anti-semites as a simple "good guys" versus "bad guys" matter with Israel ("Jews") of course as the bad guys. All Israeli actions are condemned, far more reprehensible acts by others in the area are ignored, condoned and/or excused. No context is allowed as to the existential threat to Israel since its foundation and no regard is given to the importance of Israel as a refuge of last resort for Jews everywhere who face continuing bizarre hatred, prejudice and the threat of sectarian violence.
Ugly, nasty violent anti-semitism has existed for many centuries before the state of Israel existed, it continues today and would persist no matter what settlement was reached in the Middle East.

But Israel provides a convenient fig leaf for the "virtuous" antisemites to hide behind.

Odhinn

1641 wrote: »

Because this conflict is always portrayed by the anti-semites as a simple "good guys" versus "bad guys" matter with Israel ("Jews") of course as the bad guys. All Israeli actions are condemned, far more reprehensible acts by others in the area are ignored, condoned and/or excused. No context is allowed as to the existential threat to Israel since its foundation and no regard is given to the importance of Israel as a refuge of last resort for Jews everywhere who face continuing bizarre hatred, prejudice and the threat of sectarian violence.
Ugly, nasty violent anti-semitism has existed for many centuries before the state of Israel existed, it continues today and would persist no matter what settlement was reached in the Middle East.

But Israel provides a convenient fig leaf for the "virtuous" antisemites to hide behind.

Israel is colonising areas outside its borders and has been doing so since the late 1960's. This is both wrong and against international law.

Other regimes - Syria, Sudan, Libya and so on have (over the course of the last few decades) been under sanctions for their activities. Others (eg Saudi) enjoy the same immunity as Israel does due to the backing of the US.

riffmongous

An exhibition of photos of Nazi survivors grafitti'd with swastikas and anti semitic phrases, in Vienna on what's a fairly busy street. That's what happens when you have a government party that refuses to deal with it's nazi past and present (although at least they are gone now)

https://derstandard.at/2000103643712/Bilder-von-NS-Ueberlebenden-mit-Hakenkreuzen-beschmiert?ref=rec

Disturbing. Today's most read story over on the BBC:

German Jews warned not to wear kippas after rise in anti-Semitism

The disturbing part is that they're not simply saying it's because of Muslim immigrants - it is indigenous German anti-Semitism and linked to a rise in racism generally since the arrival of a million plus Muslims in recent years. How could any German, no matter how marginalised and ignorant they are, view the paltry 116,500 Jews (2017 figure) who are left in Germany as a threat?

The article quotes a man pleading with Germans to teach the Holocaust more and that reminded me of a conversation I had with my Jewish guide on a recent visit to the Daniel Libeskind designed Jewish Museum in Berlin, the most eerie museum you could ever visit. She spoke about a recent school trip by German students who had actually never heard of the Holocaust. She was very emotional about this particular visit and was very fearful at the change in mood among many Germans. There seems to be a "rebellion" against accommodating minorities, and not teaching the Holocaust seems to be fitting into that.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

Disturbing. Today's most read story over on the BBC:

German Jews warned not to wear kippas after rise in anti-Semitism

The disturbing part is that they're not simply saying it's because of Muslim immigrants - it is indigenous German anti-Semitism and linked to a rise in racism generally since the arrival of a million plus Muslims in recent years. How could any German, no matter how marginalised and ignorant they are, view the paltry 116,500 Jews (2017 figure) who are left in Germany as a threat?

The article quotes a man pleading with Germans to teach the Holocaust more and that reminded me of a conversation I had with my Jewish guide on a recent visit to the Daniel Libeskind designed Jewish Museum in Berlin, the most eerie museum you could ever visit. She spoke about a recent school trip by German students who had actually never heard of the Holocaust. She was very emotional about this particular visit and was very fearful at the change in mood among many Germans. There seems to be a "rebellion" against accommodating minorities, and not teaching the Holocaust seems to be fitting into that.

Its not really taught in Ireland either. And you don't have to take history in secondary school anymore.

ILoveYourVibes

Its probably rising in the States too.

6.35 ...He calls Chabad Lubavitch a mob. The poway syangogue that was the target of the anti semitic attacker who printed a manifesto online was a Chabad Lubavitch synagogue.

Rabbi Zalman Lent in Dublin is a chabad lubavitch rabbi.

For some reason there is a lot of alt right hate towards chabad right now. Its scary.

ILoveYourVibes

Although THIS was really beautiful ...a zionist and palestinian activist coming together

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its not really taught in Ireland either. And you don't have to take history in secondary school anymore.

On this you're 100% correct. In particular, how often has the Holocaust come up as a question in the Leaving Cert exam in the past 30 years? Once? With so much to cover and teachers under pressure to get results they will cut things out by focusing on past exam questions, and that means the Holocaust will be a footnote in a larger essay on the rise of Nazism. I'm absolutely certain it would be taught more at LC level if the State Examinations Commission actually started asking it in the exam.

As an observer in the BBC article above notes, there's a general rise in uncouthness in society, something that is greatly aided by social media.

RWCNT

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You don't have to take history in secondary school anymore.

=O

Really!? Jaysus, that's terrible.

riffmongous

riffmongous wrote: »

An exhibition of photos of Nazi survivors grafitti'd with swastikas and anti semitic phrases, in Vienna on what's a fairly busy street. That's what happens when you have a government party that refuses to deal with it's nazi past and present (although at least they are gone now)

https://derstandard.at/2000103643712/Bilder-von-NS-Ueberlebenden-mit-Hakenkreuzen-beschmiert?ref=rec

And it's happened again, much worse damage this time. It's really unbelievable considering this is a main road in Vienna, right outside the Presidential Palace and with the Inner Ministry about 200 metres away. Police really should have had someone nearby. Anyway a few different charity and other groups have banded together to keep a vigil instead

DelaneyIn

https://www.timesofisrael.com/merkel-all-german-synagogues-jewish-schools-need-police-protection/

The disconnect is incredible. She actively imported hundreds of thousands of “refugees” who actively hate the Jewish people and she is shocked?

ILoveYourVibes

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://www.timesofisrael.com/merkel-all-german-synagogues-jewish-schools-need-police-protection/

The disconnect is incredible. She actively imported hundreds of thousands of “refugees” who actively hate the Jewish people and she is shocked?

Sir may i quietly and respectfully ask you to consider if you think you might be masking a certain type of racism with antisemitism?

Irish Jewish schools and synagogues have similar protection same in France and in the US.

These are far right white nationalist groups.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48411735

Whether it be from the left or right racism must be opposed.

I mean lets be frank ..its not like they had no antisemtism in Germany before immigration is it?

DelaneyIn

It's from all the nazis everywhere. They were all hibernating for the past 50 years and then suddenly they just decided to wake up and start attacking Jews again.
Any correlation with the recent mass importation of people from regions were antisemitism is the norm is a pure coincidence.

ILoveYourVibes

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DelaneyIn wrote: »

It's from all the nazis everywhere. They were all hibernating for the past 50 years and then suddenly they just decided to wake up and start attacking Jews again.
Any correlation with the recent mass importation of people from regions were antisemitism is the norm is a pure coincidence.

Trump woke them up and made them brave.

Odhinn

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://www.timesofisrael.com/merkel-all-german-synagogues-jewish-schools-need-police-protection/

The disconnect is incredible. She actively imported hundreds of thousands of “refugees” who actively hate the Jewish people and she is shocked?

How do you know that "hundreds of thousands " of them "actively hate the Jewish people"?

James Brown

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://www.timesofisrael.com/merkel-all-german-synagogues-jewish-schools-need-police-protection/

The disconnect is incredible. She actively imported hundreds of thousands of “refugees” who actively hate the Jewish people and she is shocked?

So vilifying all Jews is bad and we should blame that on immigrants?
Talk about getting your ethics and morals arseways :rolleyes:

FYI: any Israeli source is hardly impartial or representative of the Jewish people.

DelaneyIn

It is mostly muslims doing these things (81% for anything related to violence against jews for example). See this: https://uni-bielefeld.de/ikg/daten/JuPe_Bericht_April2017.pdf

That’s not wrongly “blaming” anyone. That is stating the truth. The issue is due to large scale mass immigration. Denying it is denying reality.

ILoveYourVibes

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So vilifying all Jews is bad and we should blame that on immigrants?
Talk about getting your ethics and morals arseways :rolleyes:

FYI: any Israeli source is hardly impartial or representative of the Jewish people.

Actually Haaretz is one of the most trusted sources for news after rueters.

But that is not important right now.

This happening in GERMANY right now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/14/world/europe/anti-semitic-crime-germany.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48411735

And the comissioner for anti antisemitism in germany has warned jews to not wear kippahs.

Its the far right doing it though. They are white Christians in these latest attacks.

Some people only care now because they can blame muslims. They never cared in the 40s.

I mean the right didn't even care when Arab countries forced jews out in the 60s.

NOW they suddenly care?

Yeah right.

Danzy

The Equality and Human Rights Commission in Britain has said it is launching a formal investigation in to Labour antisemitism.

The only party it has previously reviewed is the BNP, which was led by Nick Griffin, who has publicly applauded Corbyn for his unrelenting line on Jews.

One group has submitted a 15k page dossier on anti semitism in the party and its cover up and protection.

Ulysses Gaze

Danzy wrote: »

The Equality and Human Rights Commission in Britain has said it is launching a formal investigation in to Labour antisemitism.

The only party it has previously reviewed is the BNP, which was led by Nick Griffin, who has publicly applauded Corbyn for his unrelenting line on Jews.

One group has submitted a 15k page dossier on anti semitism in the party and its cover up and protection.

Makes Shami Chakrabarti and her "investigation" into Anti-Semitism in Labour look like an even bigger disgrace now. She really should hang her head in shame.

But hey! She got a Damehood instead!