Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

Options
1…6791112…189

Comments

  • Options
    #242
    MetroLinker
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭MetroLinker


    bk wrote: »
    Is it possible they have been in contact with owners, but not tenants, since tenants don't really have any legal rights in this situation and any offer they receive would be a good will one?


    No contact with owners either. As far as I know, tenants do have legal rights in these situations - unless they are there a month or less.


  • Options
    #243
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,484 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    MetroLinker wrote: »
    No contact with owners either. As far as I know, tenants do have legal rights in these situations - unless they are there a month or less.

    Wouldn't that basically fall under the same rule that says a landlord can ask you to leave, if they are selling?

    Even very long term tenants can be asked to leave under that circumstance. If the owners agree to sell to the NTA, then that would be that.


  • Options
    #244
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,235 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    The NTA have years to sort this out, and probably won't progress this until the business case has been completed and published, possibly not even until the government has agreed to go ahead with everything.

    Unfortunately for those owners and tenants that are unhappy, there's very little that they can do other than apply political pressure, and even there I can't imagine many politicians throwing their support behind it. The CPO process is legally watertight, so long as the NTA can show that there's a public need to buy the building, then it'll sail through. Demonstrating that need will be childs play as well, they can point to the reduction in congestion, the air quality, future transport studies. At this stage, the NTA are swimming in reasons to CPO the building.


  • Options
    #245
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,713 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Construction isn't due to start until 2023. In that time, there is a good chance that most tenants will have moved on for various reasons. I'd imagine the landlords are told to get onto the NTA wherever a tenancy ends and that they will be well compensated for loss of future earnings (potential tenants would be reluctant to move into a condemned building anyway). The place will probably be half empty in a couple of years and long vacated by the time demolition rolls round.


  • Options
    #246
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,805 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Construction isn't due to start until 2023. In that time, there is a good chance that most tenants will have moved on for various reasons. I'd imagine the landlords are told to get onto the NTA wherever a tenancy ends and that they will be well compensated for loss of future earnings (potential tenants would be reluctant to move into a condemned building anyway). The place will probably be half empty in a couple of years and long vacated by the time demolition rolls round.


    I'd think it's the other way around for some people. It's not a like for like scenario, but I've seen the number of caravans on a halting site skyrocket when word gets around of an imminent CPO/compensation/rehousing...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #247
    1huge1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭1huge1


    I thought construction was due to start in 2021?


  • Options
    #248
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    1huge1 wrote: »
    I thought construction was due to start in 2021?

    It was due to start in 2009.


  • Options
    #249
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Some disquiet around the Metro station at the Mater now

    https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/locals-urge-transport-chiefs-reconsider-16302898


  • Options
    #250
    Qrt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭Qrt


    marno21 wrote: »
    Some disquiet around the Metro station at the Mater now

    https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/locals-urge-transport-chiefs-reconsider-16302898

    Tbh you can sympathise. But knowing the location, it’ll just be brushed aside.


  • Options
    #251
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,067 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Is the Mater station box actually a viable option or is it an urban myth. Also the NTA say the park will be returned to use after the construction is completed so bar the 2-3yr inconvenience its not the end of the world. As I said before due to years of bad planning and no foresight there will unfortunately have to be collateral damage along the way if we want to have a metro system.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #252
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,286 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    jvan wrote: »
    Is the Mater station box actually a viable option or is it an urban myth. Also the NTA say the park will be returned to use after the construction is completed so bar the 2-3yr inconvenience its not the end of the world. As I said before due to years of bad planning and no foresight there will unfortunately have to be collateral damage along the way if we want to have a metro system.

    No it’s not in the alignment. Also I’m pretty sure the station box was just a retaining wall.


  • Options
    #253
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,067 ✭✭✭prunudo


    salmocab wrote: »
    No it’s not in the alignment. Also I’m pretty sure the station box was just a retaining wall.

    Ah I see, so similar to the lads down the pub who were convinced that part of the NCH overrun is because they've built a metro station in the basement there.


  • Options
    #254
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,286 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    jvan wrote: »
    Ah I see, so similar to the lads down the pub who were convinced that part of the NCH overrun is because they've built a metro station in the basement there.

    It’s a shame the works at the mater site are now wasted but at the time it made sense.


  • Options
    #255
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,713 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    salmocab wrote: »
    It’s a shame the works at the mater site are now wasted but at the time it made sense.
    But the works at the Mater was literally just a wall (albeit an expensive and difficult to construct wall). It was to support adjacent buildings when the station is being built, you still have to construct the full station at pretty much full cost. You would be saving a bit on retaining structures on one side but after that you have the full cost of the station.


  • Options
    #256
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Qrt wrote: »
    Tbh you can sympathise. But knowing the location, it’ll just be brushed aside.

    No you can't it's a effectively a private park (I've never seen a single person in it) which will be opened to the public after construction this is a great idea.


  • Options
    #257
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The most irritating part of this project is the painfully slow pace of advancement. If it happens at all it'll be at least 3 years before we see any construction.


  • Options
    #258
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    cgcsb wrote: »
    The most irritating part of this project is the painfully slow pace of advancement. If it happens at all it'll be at least 3 years before we see any construction.

    If you think this project is slow come take a look at some of the threads on the Roads forum and you might change your mind ;)


  • Options
    #259
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    marno21 wrote: »
    If you think this project is slow come take a look at some of the threads on the Roads forum and you might change your mind ;)
    Granted, but this project is more important than any of those projects.


  • Options
    #260
    fionnsci
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭fionnsci


    Today is the consultation deadline for Metrolink.

    https://www.metrolink.ie/#/consultation


  • Options
    #261
    strassenwo!f
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    From what I remember at the time, around 5 million euro was spent on it, so that would suggest that it was more than just a 'wall'.

    Is it clear why this structure is not part of the plan?

    Given the curves involved in getting, for example, from the proposed O'Connell St. metro station at the Carlton to the proposed Tara St. metro station, and the flexibility of the proposed metro vehicles, it is not immediately obvious that the' structure' at the Mater definitively couldn't be used by a metro route along an alignment via a Whitworth metro-DART interchange.

    [I have previously advocated, on this board, that the Mater 'structure' should be ditched in favour of a route via Drumcondra, where it could also connect with both commuter rail lines, and onto a metro station at Mountjoy Square. It would probably need to be quite deep, but this is a park which (I believe) could benefit from a complete redevelopment and which could provide ready access - perhaps better access than the Mater - to many different busy areas of that part of the north city].


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #262
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,235 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Here's what TII say about the works done at the Mater for MetroNorth.
    Due to the location of the Mater Stop Box, it would not be possible to construct the stop box at a future date without causing significant disturbance to the operation of the Mater Adult Hospital. A phase of enabling works was therefore required to facilitate the future construction of the Mater Stop Box. Enabling works entailed the construction of c.80m of the western diaphragm wall (D-Wall) of the Mater Stop Box, which lies adjacent to the Mater Adult Hospital. These works comprised the establishment of the site compound, the reduction of existing ground level in order to create a level platform for the piling equipment and the construction of a temporary guide wall to set out the position of the D-wall. Subsequent to this the D-wall was excavated and constructed in panels c.2.8m wide, using specialist equipment including clam shovel drop and hydrofraise, to a depth of c.26m.

    So, no station box, just an 80 metre long wall, 26 metres deep, built with specialist equipment. That goes to explain the price.

    There's also no way to get from that proposed metro north station box to the proposed metrolink station at Glasnevin. You can see the alignment of the MetroNorth Mater stop in the image below. The curves required to get to Glasnevin would be far worse than those required at Tara St.

    AcvbGu6l.png

    I also disagree with your idea for a Drumcondra St, it's nowhere near as good at interchange as Glasnevin. The lines are 140 metres apart at Drumcondra, and on two vastly different levels. At Glasnevin, they're adjacent in terms of distance and height.


  • Options
    #263
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,713 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    strassenwo!f wrote: »
    From what I remember at the time, around 5 million euro was spent on it, so that would suggest that it was more than just a 'wall'.
    It's a large retaining structure built underground designed to prevent the adjacent hospital from falling in when a 20+m hole is dug beside them. It's more than "just a wall' and is very expensive to build. Photos and info here;
    https://www.wf-ib.de/en/competencies/special-foundation/in-situ-concrete-diaphragm-walls/
    Is it clear why this structure is not part of the plan?

    Given the curves involved in getting, for example, from the proposed O'Connell St. metro station at the Carlton to the proposed Tara St. metro station, and the flexibility of the proposed metro vehicles, it is not immediately obvious that the' structure' at the Mater definitively couldn't be used by a metro route along an alignment via a Whitworth metro-DART interchange.
    You can't just draw a line between two points and say that the wall can be incorporated into that alignment. The tunnel has to run along side the wall, directly parallel from start to finish. You also have to consider the approach, margin for error in underground construction is very small so you have to be nearly aligned a good bit back, you can't just come off a very sharp bend to ensure you can hit your mark. Anything else requires alterations to the wall or compromising other elements of the station. The curve from Glasnevin Station to align with the wall is not doable for a TBM, the wall was built to align with a tunnel coming from a point almost 1km further south.


  • Options
    #264
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    A 5m sunk cost on a retaining wall is not a reason to force an alignment to use it even if it was doable. It's a relatively small amount of money. Here in Berlin we have loads of partially built but never used infrastructure, up to and including station boxes, like at Innsbrucker Platz:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=u10+innsbrucker+platz&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjNy8m36K7iAhVRUBoKHURMBB0Q_AUIDygC&biw=1355&bih=705

    This stuff is par for the course when a city builds stuff.


  • Options
    #265
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    God this endless repetitive waffle over Metro is worse than Brexit.


  • Options
    #266
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Robert Troy asked Ross today about the new Metro route particularly in relation to the cost of it.
    As the Deputy is aware, the National Transport Authority, NTA, and Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, have statutory responsibilities to develop and deliver MetroLink. In March, the NTA and TII launched a public consultation on the preferred route and that consultation period ended yesterday. This was developed following the NTA's and TII's reflection on the many responses to the earlier consultation they had held last year on the then emerging preferred route, a public consultation which gave rise to much public commentary, particularly regarding a number of specific areas across the city. The NTA's and TII's consideration of this second consultation period on the preferred route will inform the ongoing development of the preliminary design for the project and allow it move on to the next stage.

    An important part of that next stage is the development of what is known as a detailed business case. The issue of cost estimation will form a key part of the development of the business case. In developing that business case, the TII is working with leading international experts in the field of cost estimation for mega-projects such as MetroLink. This work will form part of the business case for the project. The business case developed by the TII will be reviewed by the NTA prior to submission to my Department for consideration in line with the requirements of the public spending code. My Department will ensure robust and rigorous analysis and challenge of the business case. Its consideration of the business case will inform the memorandum I will then bring to the Government for its approval. Subject to the approval of the Government, TII will proceed to the planning process and apply to An Bord Pleanála for a railway order. This application is expected to happen during the second quarter of 2020.

    Let me be clear. The development of the business case and the costs underpinning the actual construction of a project like this are subject to ongoing refinement throughout these preparatory stages. Conditions might be imposed during planning that result in cost adjustments, for example, and ultimately costs will be further developed during the procurement process. Further Government decision points will be required in this project's life cycle. At each of those points careful consideration will be given to the ongoing value for money and benefit of the project.

    Additional information not given on the floor of the House

    MetroLink is a mega-project. It is one which we all have views on. I want to reassure the Deputy that, as Minister, I have two key priorities here: delivering an improved public transport system to serve the needs of the public now and into the future; and ensuring efficient and effective expenditure of taxpayers' money. The issue of overall cost is a major factor in any transformative project like this one and it is important that we allow due deliberation as required under the public spending code.

    For those who are allergic to civil servant speak, MetroLink to be submitted to An Bord Pleanala in Q2 2020


  • Options
    #267
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    What's the delay? If this only goes to ABP in Q2 2020 it won't get built IMO.


  • Options
    #268
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,235 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    What's the delay? If this only goes to ABP in Q2 2020 it won't get built IMO.

    Don't think that it's a new delay or anything, the six months added on to the consultation has pushed everything back, including the application.


  • Options
    #269
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,380 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    @ Strassenwolf:

    This speculation about the Glasnevin station belongs in the other thread and will be moved to it.

    Please stick to the published plans in this thread.


  • Options
    #270
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,464 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Looks like a whole load of Green Party candidates are about to be elected to the Dublin Councils. Makes you wonder what their stance on the current Metrolink project will be given the views held by their party leader.

    I'm speculating a lot here, but I reckon Eamon Ryan will probably be Tánaiste in a future Government within a year. Wouldn't surprise me if a rethink of Metrolink was one of his bargaining chips for entering into a coalition Government.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #271
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,067 ✭✭✭prunudo


    If the greens start sticking their oar in the current plan, even the southern part I'd fear it will be pushed back further and run the risk of never happening. Plan, replan, repeat.

    By all means they should plan new routes but not at the expense of the current Metrolink proposal.


Advertisement