Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

Pete_Cavan

CatInABox wrote: »

I'm sorry, what's this about?

Building a station box for DU at SSG now as part of Metrolink, despite DU not even having a route at present. That should be obvious from reading the posts quoted!

CatInABox

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Building a station box for DU at SSG now as part of Metrolink, despite DU not even having a route at present. That should be obvious from reading the posts quoted!

It might have been obvious, but I still missed it. I pretty much misread three different posts in a row.

They're not going to put a station box in for Dart Underground during Metrolink, regardless of it's positives or negatives.

Metrolink has been a great demonstration for removing complexity from a project. In fact, the only two stations that have any real level of complexity are Glasnevin and Tara St, the two interchange stations. Adding another station box at SSG, deeper than anything else on the Metrolink project, would be adding considerable risk/complexity to that station, and therefore it won't happen.

Pete_Cavan

CatInABox wrote: »

They're not going to put a station box in for Dart Underground during Metrolink, regardless of it's positives or negatives.

I agree, that's what I was saying.

Marcusm

CatInABox wrote: »

Yes, once they get Metrolink out of the way, I can imagine them going back to square one on Dart Underground and looking at all the interchange options. An interchange at Tara St would be the obvious choice, but I think that an interchange at SSG and at Pearse Station would still work just as well, and might be easier to design and build. Having an interchange at Tara St, Pearse St and SSG would create an interchange triangle of stations, something I've noticed on networks across the globe. Once the frequency is good enough, then no one will care about possibly having to interchange twice in quick succession.

This I can guarantee you is one of the most frustrating experiences. Multiple changes in quick succession significantly increases journey times.

Qrt

Marcusm wrote: »

This I can guarantee you is one of the most frustrating experiences. Multiple changes in quick succession significantly increases journey times.

I quite enjoy the wander around London’s tube stations tbh

CatInABox

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I agree, that's what I was saying.

I've had one of those days where nothing I read goes in, and nothing I say is clear, sorry.

Totally agree with you, I was more making the point to everyone else.

I should really step away from the keyboard at this stage.

CatInABox

Marcusm wrote: »

This I can guarantee you is one of the most frustrating experiences. Multiple changes in quick succession significantly increases journey times.

I've travelled around London for years on the network, and been around loads of other commuters doing the same thing. The only time I heard people complain about it was when the frequency was disrupted. Less than five minutes, that's totally fine, more than five minutes? Then you've got problems.

Anyway, it's all kinda academic, I can't imagine many journeys that would require more than one change. Even if all our dream lines are completed, Metrolink and Dart Expansion and Underground, then we'll still only have a small network.

MJohnston

Unhinged stuff here:

https://twitter.com/RMetrolink/status/1128409398383083524

marno21

MJohnston wrote: »

Unhinged stuff here:

https://twitter.com/RMetrolink/status/1128409398383083524

This is no longer about concerns. This is a crusade.

Qrt

marno21 wrote: »

This is no longer about concerns. This is a crusade.

They’ll want it stopped at Tara Street next to “protect our park” (the facts won’t phase them)

prunudo

Nothing surprises me anymore where comes to "concerned residents" trying to twart public transport improvements.

Rulmeq

Qrt wrote: »

They’ll want it stopped at Tara Street next to “protect our park” (the facts won’t phase them)

Why stop there, there's a swimming pool and a block of apartments to save there, and Glasnevin's a bit too close to the cemmetary, and well who want's to go to Ballymun, we should just stop it at the airport (actually that might cause some disruption to their flights, so we should definitly not go past Swords with it)

gjim

Marcusm wrote: »

This I can guarantee you is one of the most frustrating experiences. Multiple changes in quick succession significantly increases journey times.

Having a triangle of interchanges doesn't add more changes for passengers. What trip could require 2 changes in Tara/SSG/Pearse over a single change in Tara?

Btw, I agree that there's no way a station box for DU will be included anywhere during ML construction whether at Tara or SSG. I was trying to say that if rail PT in Dublin were developed strategically with a commitment to a long term integrated plan, then adding a DU station box would be done while you've already dug a massive hole and blocked streets and are moving heavy machinery. Long-term it would save enormous cost, disruption and avoid potential opposition over mining one out in the same area 5 or 10 years later costing 100m or more extra. Not doing it now just loads costs onto the eventual DU project.

MetroLinker

They have rejected various planning applications already based on DU going to Pearse:
https://www.thejournal.ie/dart-underground-dublin-office-building-rejected-4057835-Jun2018/
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/plans-for-liffey-bridge-derailed-by-dart-underground-scheme-1.3746924

I doubt they would move the station to Tara Street to connect it. As noted above, anybody wanting to change Dart-DU would go to Pearse, DU-Metrolink would go to SSG and Dart-Metrolink to Tara.

There is a risk that the interchanges will result in a large number of additional passengers number impacting on routes travelling through the city centre. Example, imagine a busy DART train coming from Howth and stopping in Tara Street to pick up Metrolink passengers. If these passengers only need to stay on the dart route for 2/3 stops and then leave, the train capacity requirement would be very uneven across the route.

From a quick look, DART's moving North to South have the largest quantity leaving the train at Pearse Station, who will all be staying on the train in Tara Street.

If Tara Street Metro station was moved closer to Pearse Street with a direct pedestrian exit on to the street, it may help matters by encouraging people to walk from Metrolink to anywhere close to Pearse Station or Grand Canal Dock instead of making the transition to the DART for 1-2 stops. In addition, if passengers could leave Tara Street DART and exit on to Pearse Street, they may create additional capacity on the service for Metrolink customers wishing to board.

Rulmeq

MetroLinker wrote: »

If Tara Street Metro station was moved closer to Pearse Street with a direct pedestrian exit on to the street, it may help matters by encouraging people to walk from Metrolink to anywhere close to Pearse Station or Grand Canal Dock instead of making the transition to the DART for 1-2 stops. In addition, if passengers could leave Tara Street DART and exit on to Pearse Street, they may create additional capacity on the service for Metrolink customers wishing to board.

Encourage people not to use PT by making it difficult to use, are you sure you don't work for FG already?

MetroLinker

Rulmeq wrote: »

Encourage people not to use PT by making it difficult to use, are you sure you don't work for FG already?

It's like in London when people will get a tube from Covent Garden to Leicester Square because they don't realise how close they are - it's both a waste of time for the user and adds congestion to the network.

If you consider the following flow to go from Dublin Airport to Pearse Station - Metrolink from airport to Tara Street, walk from Metrolink level to street level, walk from street level to DART platform, train wait time, length of train ride, walk from DART platform to street level.

The alternative is Metrolink from airport to Tara Street, walk from Metrolink level to street level, walk to Pearse Station. My calculations indicate that this is quicker for Pearse Station and similar time to get to Grand Canal Dock.

marno21

College Gate seems to be the last remaining speedbump for this project

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/move-your-station-to-save-our-homes-metrolink-told-r0sdb6qsj

cgcsb

marno21 wrote: »

College Gate seems to be the last remaining speedbump for this project

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/move-your-station-to-save-our-homes-metrolink-told-r0sdb6qsj

I dont see how this can be, the owners are getting above market value and the renters are getting a year rent free elsewhere. They've basically won one of the mid range prizes on the lotto.

CatInABox

cgcsb wrote: »

I dont see how this can be, the owners are getting above market value and the renters are getting a year rent free elsewhere. They've basically won one of the mid range prizes on the lotto.

Some people get attached to their houses. Honestly though, I can't see these guys getting much traction, as you say, people who are renting there won't care, and some of the people who own there will be rubbing their hands with glee at the thoughts of an above market price. Even the last protest they organised didn't get all the residents out.

prunudo

marno21 wrote: »

College Gate seems to be the last remaining speedbump for this project

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/move-your-station-to-save-our-homes-metrolink-told-r0sdb6qsj

That would correlate with what was proposed a couple of posts up, moving Tara st station closer to Pearse.

Rulmeq

jvan wrote: »

That would correlate with what was proposed a couple of posts up, moving Tara st station closer to Pearse.

I beleive metrolinker is a tenant in the collagegate building (not sure if they are involved in this campaign or not though).

Marcusm

Qrt wrote: »

I quite enjoy the wander around London’s tube stations tbh

I suspect that is because it is novel or occasional. On regular trips, interchanges in close succession are very frustrating as they lead to missed connections, additional time queueing, further interaction with other pieces of self loading cargo etc.

Marcusm

CatInABox wrote: »

I've travelled around London for years on the network, and been around loads of other commuters doing the same thing. The only time I heard people complain about it was when the frequency was disrupted. Less than five minutes, that's totally fine, more than five minutes? Then you've got problems.

Anyway, it's all kinda academic, I can't imagine many journeys that would require more than one change. Even if all our dream lines are completed, Metrolink and Dart Expansion and Underground, then we'll still only have a small network.

I was particularly speaking about multiple changes in quick succession, eg changing tubes then changing again after a single stop. I too spent 30 years in London!

Alvin Holler

I noticed today that they're doing ground investigation works on the Phibsborough side of canal at the proposed Glasnevin stop.

MJohnston

Alvin Holler wrote: »

I noticed today that they're doing ground investigation works on the Phibsborough side of canal at the proposed Glasnevin stop.

Are they definitely? Because I used to walk past there every day and they'd be frequently doing maintenance to the sewers and canal gratings under the bridge etc.

Alvin Holler

MJohnston wrote: »

Are they definitely? Because I used to walk past there every day and they'd be frequently doing maintenance to the sewers and canal gratings under the bridge etc.

Yes, they've a sign up stating it's part of the Metrolink project

Pixel Eater

CatInABox wrote: »

Some people get attached to their houses. Honestly though, I can't see these guys getting much traction, as you say, people who are renting there won't care, and some of the people who own there will be rubbing their hands with glee at the thoughts of an above market price. Even the last protest they organised didn't get all the residents out.

Chatting to one of the organisers at a consultations; said the vast majority of the residents have accepted the deal, it's literally only a handful of people who are still opposed to it.

cgcsb

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Chatting to one of the organisers at a consultations; said the vast majority of the residents have accepted the deal, it's literally only a handful of people who are still opposed to it.

They need to head down to Spar and get a lotto ticket, these windfalls come in threes they say.

MetroLinker

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Chatting to one of the organisers at a consultations; said the vast majority of the residents have accepted the deal, it's literally only a handful of people who are still opposed to it.

There is no deal at the moment so nobody could have accepted it!

There is only the paragraph in the Preferred Route Report and there has been zero engagement with tenants to date about it.

bk

MetroLinker wrote: »

There is no deal at the moment so nobody could have accepted it!

There is only the paragraph in the Preferred Route Report and there has been zero engagement with tenants to date about it.

Is it possible they have been in contact with owners, but not tenants, since tenants don't really have any legal rights in this situation and any offer they receive would be a good will one?

Owners maybe quiet happy.