Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

Zebra3

Enda Kenny doesn’t give a damn.

Still pocketing a TDs salary for doing absolutely nothing.

CatInABox

The save Markievicz Pool campaign is continuing apace, with some frankly bizarre, wishful thinking.

See here.

Check out this wishful thinking:

The Hawkins House site is further from the DART station than the Luke Street location – it’s 150m from Tara Street. The NTA has deemed this distance to be too great for passengers making Metrolink and DART connections.

However, each of the proposed Metrolink Stations for Dublin Airport are roughly 230m and 250m from the airport terminals. In that light, argued Brait, 150m shouldn’t be seen as an unacceptable distance to walk from one train connection to another, and should make Hawkins House a perfectly acceptable site.

I actually laughed out loud when I read that, comparing mass transit interchange to an airport station.

CatInABox

The Irish Times continuing their "evenhanded" reporting on Metrolink.

MetroLink plan: ‘The whole environment is going to be completely destroyed’

A couple living in the Coke Ovens Cottages on the Royal Canal are complaining about losing 18 metres of their garden, which presumably means a 1 metre strip at the end of their garden, 18 metres long alongside the train tracks.

While I'm all for protecting the environment, I have a very different view on the balance between that and developing sustainable transport services. At least the couple acknowledge that TII are meeting with them to work on this. Can't imagine that there won't be some impact along there though, that whole area will be worked on in the Dart Expansion as well.

BonnieSituation

Zebra3 wrote: »

Enda Kenny doesn’t give a damn.

Still pocketing a TDs salary for doing absolutely nothing.

What are you on about? How is it Enda Kenny's fáilte that Séamus Brennan's metro wasn't built?

He wasn't in government until what, 8 years after that video?

cgcsb

'The whole Environment is going to be completely destroyed'. You'd think the IT would prefer not to be regarded as a red top, but there ya go.

I'm also struggling to understand where their house is? Coke Oven Cottages are about 1km away from the metro station. I think their issue is with DART expansion, but the whole thing is too poorly written to determine the exact issue and location. Something about hedges and hens and berries.

CatInABox

cgcsb wrote: »

'The whole Environment is going to be completely destroyed'. You'd think the IT would prefer not to be regarded as a red top, but there ya go.

I'm also struggling to understand where their house is? Coke Oven Cottages are about 1km away from the metro station. I think their issue is with DART expansion, but the whole thing is too poorly written to determine the exact issue and location. Something about hedges and hens and berries.

Yeah, sound like it might be more related to the Dart Expansion, but TII/IR might be trying to push it through in the Metrolink project for accounting purposes.

jd

CatInABox wrote: »

Yeah, sound like it might be more related to the Dart Expansion, but TII/IR might be trying to push it through in the Metrolink project for accounting purposes.

Yes, it is mentioned in the design Doc
https://www.metrolink.ie/assets/downloads/MetroLink_PR_Design_Development.pdf

Appendix K. Glasnevin Station
153.3Irish Rail Interface To deliver an integrated intermodal Station at Glasnevin that is compatible with the proposed MetroLink station arrangement, extensive works on the existing Irish Rail lines are required. It is anticipated that the design of these works willbe included aspart of the MetroLink Railway Order.The works along the Irish Rail lines will be designed to take account of Irish Rail requirements. Currently, Irish Rail is preparing plans under the DART Enhancement Project that might include the re-modelling of Glasnevin Junction. The scope of the works partly depends on how Connolly Station is to operate in the future and the pattern of trains using the Maynooth and Kildare lines.Discussions are progressing with Irish Rail to finalise the design

Sam Russell

jd wrote: »

Yes, it is mentioned in the design Doc
https://www.metrolink.ie/assets/downloads/MetroLink_PR_Design_Development.pdf

Is this related to Cross Guns?

Zebra3

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What are you on about? How is it Enda Kenny's fáilte that Séamus Brennan's metro wasn't built?

He wasn't in government until what, 8 years after that video?

When was MN scrapped?

marno21

2 tenders out in the last week

MetroLink Operations Advisor

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=151460&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

MetroLink Concept Architect

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=151684&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

cgcsb

Is this the first official confirmation of driverless trains

Peregrine

cgcsb wrote: »

Is this the first official confirmation of driverless trains

It was in the Design Development Report from March but this is confirmation that it wasn't changed after public consultation.

Zebra3

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/metrolink-moves-forward-as-search-begins-for-concept-architect-with-2-5m-price-tag-38398563.html

ncounties

Zebra3 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/metrolink-moves-forward-as-search-begins-for-concept-architect-with-2-5m-price-tag-38398563.html

The article attempts to make this sound expensive, and plays on the singular "architect". With the team size that will no doubt be involved, and the travel expenses, this looks like a conservative price-tag.

cgcsb

ncounties wrote: »

The article attempts to make this sound expensive, and plays on the singular "architect". With the team size that will no doubt be involved, and the travel expenses, this looks like a conservative price-tag.

They say the work is for 9 years. 2.5m/9 years is an average of €278k per year. It'll be a small team so. Couldn't really get more than 3 or 4 people involved for that.

CatInABox

ncounties wrote: »

The article attempts to make this sound expensive, and plays on the singular "architect". With the team size that will no doubt be involved, and the travel expenses, this looks like a conservative price-tag.

It's for a concept architect, so these guys won't be coming up with the detailed drawings, but will just be coming up with the overarching idea behind the entire project. Most likely, another competition will be held for the actual architect, but I'd assume that whoever wins this one will have a leg up on any other competitions.

The funny thing is that if the NTA doesn't spend the money on getting a good concept, then these reporters will be first in line attacking them for building a generic underground, with articles banging on about a "lost opportunity to invite some art and architecture into Dubliners daily lives".

cgcsb

To be honest, it was my view that the concept is already very well established by engineers, I don't see what a concept architect can add at this point, a skylight?

CatInABox

cgcsb wrote: »

To be honest, it was my view that the concept is already very well established by engineers, I don't see what a concept architect can add at this point, a skylight?

I'd say that the engineers have designed the stations to meet the requirements of providing a metro, and very little else. Concept architects will deal with coming up with a cohesive design idea that will apply to all of the stations, and will indicate what materials to be used, what benches, even down to the colour scheme.

Or they could go down a different route and attempt to tailor each station to their environment, so the airport station could look like the terminal 2; O'Connoll St station could have exhibits on 1916; SSG looks like a park; etc.

salmocab

CatInABox wrote: »

I'd say that the engineers have designed the stations to meet the requirements of providing a metro, and very little else. Concept architects will deal with coming up with a cohesive design idea that will apply to all of the stations, and will indicate what materials to be used, what benches, even down to the colour scheme.

Or they could go down a different route and attempt to tailor each station to their environment, so the airport station could look like the terminal 2; O'Connoll St station could have exhibits on 1916; SSG looks like a park; etc.

I’d say most stations will be very similar. Maybe the likes of the airport or the interchanges will be a bit different but I’d say most will look identical with only really the name plate different

CatInABox

salmocab wrote: »

I’d say most stations will be very similar. Maybe the likes of the airport or the interchanges will be a bit different but I’d say most will look identical with only really the name plate different

Yes, that's more likely in my opinion. All part of the drive to simplify and de-risk the project.

ncounties

CatInABox wrote: »

Yes, that's more likely in my opinion. All part of the drive to simplify and de-risk the project.

It would be astethically pleasing if the St Stephen's Green station entrance was designed in a more traditional fashion however, to avoid a big modern glass box that jars with the Georgian hinterland.

CatInABox

ncounties wrote: »

It would be astethically pleasing if the St Stephen's Green station entrance was designed in a more traditional fashion however, to avoid a big modern glass box that jars with the Georgian hinterland.

Yeah, this is stuff that the concept and then design architects will probably tease out. Can't imagine that having different entrance design would cause too much problems, would it?

cgcsb

CatInABox wrote: »

I'd say that the engineers have designed the stations to meet the requirements of providing a metro, and very little else. Concept architects will deal with coming up with a cohesive design idea that will apply to all of the stations, and will indicate what materials to be used, what benches, even down to the colour scheme.

Or they could go down a different route and attempt to tailor each station to their environment, so the airport station could look like the terminal 2; O'Connoll St station could have exhibits on 1916; SSG looks like a park; etc.

So if the concept architect does the furniture and fittings what will the actual design architect do?

If it were me I'd keep the stations pure functional, bare concrete and exposed service conduits (it's in right now anyway). Put the spare cash into luas and DART expansion or metro2

cgcsb

CatInABox wrote: »

Yeah, this is stuff that the concept and then design architects will probably tease out. Can't imagine that having different entrance design would cause too much problems, would it?

I suppose that's true, there could be some merit in Stephen's Green and Matter Stations being sort of a more classic design, perhaps Parisian style, with all the railings and tiles, make it look like it's always been there.

O'Connell St station will be underneath an entirely new shopping centre/residential scheme so so concrete box there.

ncounties

cgcsb wrote: »

I suppose that's true, there could be some merit in Stephen's Green and Matter Stations being sort of a more classic design, perhaps Parisian style, with all the railings and tiles, make it look like it's always been there.

O'Connell St station will be underneath an entirely new shopping centre/residential scheme so so concrete box there.

All for functional concrete boxes, and would have no issue with this being the case even at St. Stephen's Green. Just from a street level at least, I think it would show architectural sensitivity to have it in a Parisien or such design. Done well, I could see the signage become a tourist landmark in it's own right.

salmocab

ncounties wrote: »

All for functional concrete boxes, and would have no issue with this being the case even at St. Stephen's Green. Just from a street level at least, I think it would show architectural sensitivity to have it in a Parisien or such design. Done well, I could see the signage become a tourist landmark in it's own right.

Yeah the actual entrance could be in keeping with its Georgian surroundings but once past the door it would I think go back to what every other station will look like.
I like someone’s earlier suggestion about mosaic murals that have a local relevance but I think it will be all quite uniform in look.

cgcsb

There should be at least some natural light in stations, through a skylight at least in the bigger stations.

CatInABox

cgcsb wrote: »

So if the concept architect does the furniture and fittings what will the actual design architect do?

If it were me I'd keep the stations pure functional, bare concrete and exposed service conduits (it's in right now anyway). Put the spare cash into luas and DART expansion or metro2

Concept architect will create a look for the Metro, hopefully an icon look. They'll specify colours, materials, benches, etc.

As it happens (and perhaps this will answer your question better), this is the second Metrolink concept contract put out, with Grimshaw Architects winning the bid. It's their concept that you see in the Metrolink docs that have been released so far, with IDOM, the Spanish engineering company interpeting that concept.

So I guess that there isn't a design architect, there's just the concept architect, and then the engineers use that to design up the stations. This contract must be for a more indepth concept than the last one.

I'd be utterly shocked if Grimshaw didn't win this contract as well. You can see more of their Rail and Mass transit work here, and I have to admit, they do some great designs.

Sam Russell

CatInABox wrote: »

Concept architect will create a look for the Metro, hopefully an icon look. They'll specify colours, materials, benches, etc.

Whoever did the design look for Dublin Bus did a great job. The current DB colour scheme looks very good and is consistent. It is much better than any previous scheme from the green 'flying snail' logo, the beige look, etc.

Hopefully the Metrolink design will be a strong identifier with bold Dublin City themes.

Zebra3

I’d like to think that the airport station would look impressive as it would be one of the first places visitors to the country would see, almond with having one or two stations in the city centre with a bit of an extra look to them.

Nothing outrageous but it should be looked upon as money invested in the city/country.

Pixel Eater

Sam Russell wrote: »

Whoever did the design look for Dublin Bus did a great job. The current DB colour scheme looks very good and is consistent. It is much better than any previous scheme from the green 'flying snail' logo, the beige look, etc.

Hopefully the Metrolink design will be a strong identifier with bold Dublin City themes.

Agreed, their current branding is very good. Their logo use on bus stops is very strong and unique, just a pity that it'll be replaced by a very generic icon that looks like a piece of clip art.

Whatever about the company who gets the architect concept job I sincerely hope a local firm gets the actually branding and wayfinding design gig.

madbeanman

CatInABox wrote: »

I'd say that the engineers have designed the stations to meet the requirements of providing a metro, and very little else. Concept architects will deal with coming up with a cohesive design idea that will apply to all of the stations, and will indicate what materials to be used, what benches, even down to the colour scheme.

Or they could go down a different route and attempt to tailor each station to their environment, so the airport station could look like the terminal 2; O'Connoll St station could have exhibits on 1916; SSG looks like a park; etc.

Could they decide to give the station walls over to artists? Im thinking of something like the Marseille metro. The art on it was mostly horrendous but I think it would be nice to leverage some Irish/Celtic/urban art in the stations rather than just having them be dull and globalised (Like Tokyo or Osaka or something). If we are investing billions in a project, why not make it our own.

cgcsb

I like the idea of having a sort of competition for local artists to come up with a design. Probably a lot cheaper than an architect anyway

ncounties

madbeanman wrote: »

Could they decide to give the station walls over to artists? Im thinking of something like the Marseille metro. The art on it was mostly horrendous but I think it would be nice to leverage some Irish/Celtic/urban art in the stations rather than just having them be dull and globalised (Like Tokyo or Osaka or something). If we are investing billions in a project, why not make it our own.

Oh no, I'd prefer we keep the "artists" away from it. I can just see it now, broken glass mosaics, or childrens "art" which is reminisicent of Aldi's reuseable bags...

paddar

As for metro art, I have a soft spot for the Stockholm metro. Colorful but simple and painted by local artists. Well worth checking out when up north. https://www.visitstockholm.com/art-in-the-subway/stations/

vrusinov

paddar wrote: »

As for metro art, I have a soft spot for the Stockholm metro. Colorful but simple and painted by local artists. Well worth checking out when up north. https://www.visitstockholm.com/art-in-the-subway/stations/

+1, something like this will work well with projects like Dublin Canvas which is slowly becoming one of the Dublin attractions

bk

The tile mosaics in Lisbons Metro stations is pretty spectacular too.

https://www.timetravelturtle.com/lisbon-metro-art-portugal/





Of course Lisbon is super impressive, they have detailed tile mosaics on the footpaths all over the city!

Idbatterim

itll all be bare concrete here, something will have to pay for the outrageous salary and pensions!

cgcsb

Idbatterim wrote: »

itll all be bare concrete here, something will have to pay for the outrageous salary and pensions!

Industrial sheik is so hot right now. When styles change get a few coloured thows down. Fabulous dahling.

madbeanman

That Stockholm one is particularly gorgeous. It really seems distinctly Scandinavian.

I definitely think that you could do so much with what we have. If you wanted to lean into Oirishness you could make it all Celtic. If you wanted it to be more representative of Dublin then it could perhaps tell the story of Dublin. Station X takes on a particular theme relevant to the local area (like was suggested on the previous page; 1916 stuff in the O’Connell station or park themed stuff in the St. Stephen’s Green station)

I do also like the idea of the Dublin canvas peeps getting on board. Many of those designs do brighten up the city

Pete_Cavan

I couldn't care less if they left the walls as bare concrete once everything is functional. Just build the bloody thing, plenty of time to add fluff after.

cgcsb

Agreed, we're a long way off looking at colour pallets. We're not even mortgage approved at this stage

madbeanman

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I couldn't care less if they left the walls as bare concrete once everything is functional. Just build the bloody thing, plenty of time to add fluff after.

I mean the second sentence goes without saying. But you can be strategic about these things. Maybe someone who would be likely to say no to works near their house can be persuaded if the thing is made to look a bit prettier than a concrete box, no?

D.L.R.

Considering they've opted for the highly unconventional single bore just to save a few quid (which it probably won't), I'm expecting a very basic design. I mean look at our existing railways, its all very basic.

If we end up with something like the Copenhagen Metro which is simple but sleek and efficient, I'll be a happy boy.

bk

D.L.R. wrote: »

Considering they've opted for the highly unconventional single bore just to save a few quid (which it probably won't), I'm expecting a very basic design. I mean look at our existing railways, its all very basic.

If we end up with something like the Copenhagen Metro which is simple but sleek and efficient, I'll be a happy boy.

I kind of feel that the engineering decisions partly are about reducing cost, but have more to do with reducing objections. As was said above, if it is well decorated, it might help reduce objections that an ugly box would receive.

I also have to say that such design shouldn't require cost much, not in the scheme of a Metro project. You can still have your basic, cheap station box, it is just a matter of how you light it, how you paint the walls, etc.

Either way you need to paint the walls, etc. Will it really cost that much extra to paint an interesting colour scheme?

And in the Stockholm example it is often just painted bare rock, which is probably actually cheaper then having to cover and finish the rock. It probably saved them money!

I have to say Dublin Canvas has done a magnificent job in turning crappy old utility boxes into a lovely, bright and interesting part of our city. And this cost the city almost feck all. They are painted by volunteers who get painting supplies and just €150 in expenses!

I think it is important to remember that lots of people actually live in the city. The city is actually their home, that it isn't just offices that people drive and take public transport into every day and that the people who live in the city (and many commuters) too, don't just want drab gray boxes, you want some life in the city.

I'd also say that I would have thought we had learned our lesson that we need to make public transport bright, attractive, even fun if you want to attract people to use it. Dublin Bus has done a great job in replacing damp, dark, old buses with new, bright, well light, modern buses which certainly feel more welcoming.

Sure there is more to it, like make sure buses are well maintained and reliable. But I thought we had finally gotten away from this utilitarian view of public transport and learned the importance of making sure it looks well maintained, clean, painted, fresh, attractive, welcoming, etc.

Muahahaha

bk wrote: »

Either way you need to paint the walls, etc. Will it really cost that much extra to paint an interesting colour scheme?

Would agree with this and hope we dont end up with a chain of uniform stations all painted and looking the same. Its not really going to cost a whole lot extra to put a bit of interior design on it the way Stockholm has done. At the end of the day these stations are a new part of the public realm so hopefully they put a bit of thought into it rather than just leaving bare concrete or slapping on thousands of litres of Dulux Magnolia.

Id also hope billboard advertising isnt as ubquitious as it is on the Tube with the entire platorms length and all along the escalators dedicated to selling you crap.

MJohnston

You don't *need* to paint the concrete tbf. My absolute favourite subway station design is the Washington DC Metro stations. Pure brutalist beauty imo:

MJohnston

Also, the hallways of the Aviva stadium are a great example of how you can keep exposed concrete and have a nice looking design.

CatInABox

MJohnston wrote: »

You don't *need* to paint the concrete tbf. My absolute favourite subway station design is the Washington DC Metro stations. Pure brutalist beauty imo:

DC Metro is lovely.

Even different lighting in stations could create an iconic look.

madbeanman

I don’t think that Washington Station says anything about Washington though? Unless it’s supposed to tell you that Washington is a brutalist hellscape (not that hellscapes aren’t architecturally interesting. I mean hellscape in its most positive sense because that pic does look cool.)

I think though that a metro should belong to the people. Like God bless that Copenhagen mess but that’s exactly what I don’t want it to be. (Again I’m not gonna protest about it. I’ll be happy with a well run service that isn’t overly gimped by middle class people who can’t tolerate a tiny bit of disruption to their lives for the sake of making people’s lives in the most populated part of the county better.)

Make it belong to Ireland or belong to Dublin. Totally agree with not having it overrun by ads either.