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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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Comments

  • #2952
    Reuben1210
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭Reuben1210


    Carol25 wrote: »
    Try and not feed the trolls re Galway bypass. The reality is Galway needs an extra bridge at the very least to help it function to sustainable levels. Traffic and bottleneck

    Didn't realise I was dealing with a troll! I've been warned so!


  • #2953
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,989 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: Cut the backseat modding.


  • #2954
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Motorways prevent development close to them legally.
    No they don't. There's new development at the M6 Loughrea junction
    New houses beside the M50 at Blanch/Castleknock
    Carpark directly underneath the M50 at the Straw Hall
    Houses backing onto the M11 at Arklow


    Yet there's the N40 in Cork with no private accesses post construction


  • #2955
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    If cars can not enter city center that brings number of usable bridges from 4 to 1

    Not true , just removes through car traffic. Would start with Salmon Weir and O'Briens Bridge. Prioritize those two bridges for the most efficient modes, walking, cycling and buses.


  • #2956
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,125 ✭✭✭SeanW


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    So your proposal is to not only not build a new bridge to keep cars out of city center, but to reduce cross river traffic further by closing what little capacity there is :eek:

    Right this is borderline trolling now imho

    Actually now I hope this does happen, its a Brexitesque cutting the nose to spite face move, would kill movement across the city altogether.
    No, it's not trolling. These people actually believe this stuff.


  • #2957
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,812 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    So your proposal is to not only not build a new bridge to keep cars out of city center, but to reduce cross river traffic further by closing what little capacity there is :eek:

    It'd be closing capacity for cars crossing the river and increasing capacity for people by 10 fold.


  • #2958
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    So your proposal is to not only not build a new bridge to keep cars out of city center, but to reduce cross river traffic further by closing what little capacity there is :eek:
    Incorrect again. You are increasing capacity. More efficient modes. More throughput
    This is what the Council are proposing for Salmon Weir anyhow. New Bridge or No Bridge, it going to happen.

    Nobody is stopping you driving in - you just will not be able to drive though the City.


  • #2959
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,637 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    So with this restricted access proposal, how does it work?

    I mean how do you know that a lad driving over the Salmon Weir Bridge is or isnt coming from other side of town and gone through Eyre Square on route?

    Or does everyone going into town now have to take the Tuam Road/Prospect Hill approach? Im confused


  • #2960
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    veryangryman wrote: »
    So with this restricted access proposal, how does it work?

    I mean how do you know that a lad driving over the Salmon Weir Bridge is or isnt coming from other side of town and gone through Eyre Square on route?

    Or does everyone going into town now have to take the Tuam Road/Prospect Hill approach? Im confused

    Its very simple - If you are in car you drive in and out on the same road. If your on foot, bike or bus - you can cross the bridge. You will not be able to drive over the bridge in a private car - automatic bollards most likely will give the bus drivers access over them.

    Again - this is what Galway City Council have proposed for some years now for Salmon Weir Bridge. (Not for O'Briens Bridge)

    If you have the paper edition of the Galway City Tribune 21-12-2019 it was mentioned in that. (Online article just has the opening paragraph)
    https://connachttribune.ie/council-to-progress-pedestrian-crossing-beside-salmon-weir-bridge-099/


    https://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/downloads/news_items/Traffic-Transport/GTS/GTS%20PC%20Boards%20-%20English.pdf
    Page 3 (of a 10 PDF)


  • #2961
    snowstreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭snowstreams


    This no car vision of the city centre might just work if a new bridge was built to take away cross city traffic away.


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  • #2962
    Paddico
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭Paddico


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Mod: Cut the backseat modding.
    <snip>


  • #2963
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,812 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    snowstreams wrote: »
    This no car vision of the city centre might just work if a new bridge was built to take away cross city traffic away.

    Not really any need. If 80% of journeys within the urban area are completed by sustainable modes, then the quincentennial is more than sufficient to meet the remaining demand. 80% sustainable mode share can be achieved with very small amounts of investment. The bypass as planned will require a whopper toll to make it economic. Continuing to subsidise uneconomic single occupant car journeys is madness in ever more fanciful ways is madness.


  • #2964
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,812 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    2011 census shows the following modal split in Galway:

    23% Walking
    5% Bike
    8% Bus
    <1% Train
    60% Car

    If you want reduce traffic in Galway, spend a small amount of money and change that to

    25% Walking
    25% Bike
    30% Bus
    2% Train
    18% Car

    Then the business case for the bypass evaporates, even with a toll. It's a simple matter of enforcement cameras painted on bus lanes and a small investment in cycleways. Dublin is now hitting above 70% in sustainable model share (canal cordon, not GDA) despite virtually feck all spend per person on public transport.


  • #2965
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    snowstreams wrote: »
    This no car vision of the city centre might just work if a new bridge was built to take away cross city traffic away.

    Its not a no car vision, still be able to drive into the city centre and park in the many multistory car parks, just will not be able to cross through it in a private car.


  • #2966
    Carol25
    Registered Users Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Carol25


    cgcsb wrote: »
    2011 census shows the following modal split in Galway:

    23% Walking
    5% Bike
    8% Bus
    <1% Train
    60% Car

    If you want reduce traffic in Galway, spend a small amount of money and change that to

    25% Walking
    25% Bike
    30% Bus
    2% Train
    18% Car

    Then the business case for the bypass evaporates, even with a toll. It's a simple matter of enforcement cameras painted on bus lanes and a small investment in cycleways. Dublin is now hitting above 70% in sustainable model share (canal cordon, not GDA) despite virtually feck all spend per person on public transport.


    There’s just the small detail missing of Co. Galway which has more than double the population of the city and whose people all commute into the city daily...


  • #2967
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Carol25 wrote: »
    There’s just the small detail missing of Co. Galway which has more than double the population of the city and whose people all commute into the city daily...

    You exaggerate. Not ALL of them work in Galway City, but you are correct in a way in identifying this issue, volume of cars coming into the City from Co. Galway creates many of Car traffic issues in the City. Get those people on buses is the only solution.


  • #2968
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,739 ✭✭✭serfboard


    what_traffic wrote: »
    you are correct in a way in identifying this issue, volume of cars coming into the City from Co. Galway creates many of Car traffic issues in the City. Get those people on buses is the only solution.
    Given that houses are scattered like confetti across the County Galway countryside, instead of being clustered in towns, means that you have no critical mass for bus services. You cannot be sending buses up every boreen in the county, and so the solution is multiple Park n Rides on the approaches to the city, and Bus Lanes from there on in.


  • #2969
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,125 ✭✭✭SeanW


    None of what has been suggested as an alternative takes away from the fact that in order to get from East to West, you have go through city streets including the Headford "Road" (which is really a street-road hybrid).

    Make the city great again for pedestrians, cyclists, bus users? Awesome, go for it! But don't forget that roads are as important as streets. If you don't provide a road for people to get from the rest of the country to points West, lots of people are still going to be driving up and down the Headford Road for a journey that should be East-West. That's just a fact.


  • #2970
    snowstreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭snowstreams


    serfboard wrote: »
    Given that houses are scattered like confetti across the County Galway countryside, instead of being clustered in towns, means that you have no critical mass for bus services. You cannot be sending buses up every boreen in the county, and so the solution is multiple Park n Rides on the approaches to the city, and Bus Lanes from there on in.

    I know that some people do commute by car & then park in public car parks on the outskirts of the city. Then cycle the rest of the way to their place of work.

    This could be a good solution for Galway to build free parking facilties on the outskirts.
    The parking would have to be free & maybe have bike lockers to encourage cycling & located in a way that it wouldn't affect the traffic on the outskirts.


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  • #2971
    youngrun
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭youngrun


    snowstreams wrote: »
    I know that some people do commute by car & then park in public car parks on the outskirts of the city. Then cycle the rest of the way to their place of work.

    This could be a good solution for Galway to build free parking facilties on the outskirts.
    The parking would have to be free & maybe have bike lockers to encourage cycling & located in a way that it wouldn't affect the traffic on the outskirts.


    good idea
    I do think Park and rides are a good solution immediately to TRAFFIC especially on major routes in and out , plenty of available spaces eg Airport, Racecourse, Claregalway etc, many people do not need to use their car if at work 9-5 for eg, only on way in and out.
    And I think the Planning application for the M6 should have been sent in along with a defined specific Public transport plan with detailed action points , and do not think it should progress without


  • #2972
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,812 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    SeanW wrote: »
    None of what has been suggested as an alternative takes away from the fact that in order to get from East to West, you have go through city streets including the Headford "Road" (which is really a street-road hybrid).

    Make the city great again for pedestrians, cyclists, bus users? Awesome, go for it! But don't forget that roads are as important as streets. If you don't provide a road for people to get from the rest of the country to points West, lots of people are still going to be driving up and down the Headford Road for a journey that should be East-West. That's just a fact.

    East West traffic can use the existing bypass, which will be much less congested when the vast majority of commutes are done by sustainable modes.


  • #2973
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,812 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    That is your assertion/dream not backed by any research. I would agree with further pedestrinization of city center only if there was a way for everyone who doesnt need to go near the city center to bypass it aka a bypass

    Not sure what your point is?? 70%+ sustainable modal split is difficult no doubt, in a small city, however assuming it happened the traffic reduction would be undeniable. Galway's City Centre is already bypassed, what is being proposed is a bypass of the bypass.


  • #2974
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    serfboard wrote: »
    Given that houses are scattered like confetti across the County Galway countryside, instead of being clustered in towns, means that you have no critical mass for bus services. You cannot be sending buses up every boreen in the county, and so the solution is multiple Park n Rides on the approaches to the city, and Bus Lanes from there on in.

    Agree this is the most logical bus solution to the one off house confetti issue.


  • #2975
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,125 ✭✭✭SeanW


    cgcsb wrote: »
    East West traffic can use the existing bypass, which will be much less congested when the vast majority of commutes are done by sustainable modes.
    What existing bypass?


  • #2976
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,281 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Today was another shocking day for Galway traffic.

    Reduce the number of cars in the city by half, you'll still have problems. The existing roads are not fit for purpose and no matter how hard you try these problems will not be fixed without a bypass that is actually fit for purpose, the current situation is not fit for purpose.


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  • #2977
    youngrun
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭youngrun


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    Today was another shocking day for Galway traffic.

    Reduce the number of cars in the city by half, you'll still have problems. The existing roads are not fit for purpose and no matter how hard you try these problems will not be fixed without a bypass that is actually fit for purpose, the current situation is not fit for purpose.

    Yes the city is a wreck at the minute with jams and delays very frustrating.
    Galway is car bound despite being a small place

    Motorway is several years away probably 6 in reality given likely challenges

    In the interim there should be at least some Attempts by the City/County Co, NTA etc to alleviate on the public transport front along with the Motorway plan
    There are strategies in place they just need action
    ie Just implement the Tuam road bus lane - money is there+ plenty of room. Use Park and rides+ buses immediately at 5/6 key orbital routes using for eg Airport, Oranmore, Claregalway, Moycullen, Barna +get the NUIG Moycullen greenway/cycle route up and running again money is there. Dump the roundabouts. Extra trains Oranmore +Craughwell+
    Any new major developments should have a concrete bus route/extra lines right beside them and pay for this eg Barretts 2500 worker office space plan.
    Load people onto PT if they can use it ,ok not everyone will but get it rolling


  • #2978
    snowstreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭snowstreams


    youngrun wrote: »
    ... Extra trains Oranmore +Craughwell+
    ....

    The only problem with extra trains is that by the time you pay parking plus train ticket, it gets quite expensive.
    They would need to subsidize the parking & the shorter commuter train journeys if they are realistic about getting people to use trains.


  • #2979
    youngrun
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭youngrun


    snowstreams wrote: »
    The only problem with extra trains is that by the time you pay parking plus train ticket, it gets quite expensive.
    They would need to subsidize the parking & the shorter commuter train journeys if they are realistic about getting people to use trains.

    Will probably get moved threadwise but I think that trains and buses are the answer
    Uk isnt cheaper either for trains or parking beside stations. Leap Cards maybe would discount the cost.Value club !

    Trains- Straight lines in and out of Galway. No traffic no delays, big P&R beside stops so required density is sorted.
    Train stations -Oranmore has one. Add in Parkmore, Claregalway ( use airport ), Menlo/ Headford road . Buses other side given constraints of land and sea ie Barna, Moycullen.
    Would take massive ambition and grit to do it but would do the trick .
    Somebody should at least do the study on it ...


  • #2980
    mcbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭mcbert


    Very quiet here lately, so where are we now with planning or what's the next step?


  • #2981
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    mcbert wrote: »
    Very quiet here lately, so where are we now with planning or what's the next step?

    Waiting for an oral hearing with An Bord Pleanala then waiting for their ruling

    Expecting a wide variety of objections


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  • #2982
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=144713

    Galway County Council have tendered for services relating to the CPO process for the land involved in the project. The full details are in the link above.


  • #2983
    Ruhanna
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭Ruhanna


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    Reduce the number of cars in the city by half, you'll still have problems. The existing roads are not fit for purpose and no matter how hard you try these problems will not be fixed without a bypass that is actually fit for purpose, the current situation is not fit for purpose.


    What's the evidence for that?

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109944810&postcount=192

    Fit for what purpose? When schools are closed it's possible to drive across the city east to west in 20 minutes if you pick your time carefully.

    The school run is absolutely not half of the entire traffic volume in the city, yet many junctions are free-flowing when schools are off. Not necessarily in Parkmore-Ballybrit of course, but that's because the problem there is thousands of car commuters driving solo in from the county to various areas of employment. But they are not bypassing the city. The city is their destination.


  • #2984
    Ruhanna
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭Ruhanna


    marno21 wrote: »
    Expecting a wide variety of objections

    And rightly so.


  • #2985
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ruhanna wrote: »
    And rightly so.

    Not likely to stop it though


  • #2986
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,812 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    If anything stops this project it'll be the excessive cost, the disbenefits and the environmental impact. Not to mention that we'll still have to pay the, much smaller, cost for a coherent public transport system that will actually have a positive impact in reducing congestion and emissions from transport.


  • #2987
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    cgcsb wrote: »
    If anything stops this project it'll be the excessive cost
    Wonder how much the price has increased with Construction inflation. €650,00,000 -> €700,000,000 was the cost outlined a couple of years back.


  • #2988
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,739 ✭✭✭serfboard


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Wonder how much the price has increased with Construction inflation. €650,00,000 -> €700,000,000 was the cost outlined a couple of years back.
    Ah yeah, sure with the construction inflation it's probably gone to around the oul' billion mark - sure we're throwing around billions on infrastructure projects (NCH €2B, NBP €3B) like snuff at a wake these days - why not another one?


  • #2989
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    How many billions is city losing out on by everyone sitting in traffic and the oft promised public transport nowhere to be seen (or stuck in same traffic)

    Do tell?


  • #2990
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,637 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    cgcsb wrote: »
    If anything stops this project it'll be the excessive cost, the disbenefits and the environmental impact. Not to mention that we'll still have to pay the, much smaller, cost for a coherent public transport system that will actually have a positive impact in reducing congestion and emissions from transport.

    Unfortunately with the ridiculous house price growth in cities, few can afford to live in them or move to them so a fancy local transport system will suit the few rather than the many.


  • #2991
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,812 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Unfortunately with the ridiculous house price growth in cities, few can afford to live in them or move to them so a fancy local transport system will suit the few rather than the many.

    That'll just have to change. Height restrictions have been lifted, cities will get denser and more affordable.


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  • #2992
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    cgcsb wrote: »
    That'll just have to change. Height restrictions have been lifted, cities will get denser and more affordable.
    Height isn't really the problem, it's suburban & old country houses still in & near the centre that really waste land.


  • #2993
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,739 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Height isn't really the problem, it's suburban & old country houses still in & near the centre that really waste land.
    I agree that height isn't the problem.

    And I would add to your list of causes, vacant or empty sites and properties, and items like Golf and Race Courses that take up huge amounts of land for the benefit of a tiny number of people a few times a year. Dublin is guilty of this as well.

    The problem as always is political will to tackle the housing problem - there is none, and there are powerful vested interests who want to keep things as they are.


  • #2994
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Unfortunately with the ridiculous house price growth in cities, few can afford to live in them or move to them so a fancy local transport system will suit the few rather than the many.

    So going by this logic.
    Would you propose closing down ALL the current Galway City Bus Services as it suits the few rather than the many?
    No wonder your angry.


  • #2995
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Height isn't really the problem, it's suburban & old country houses still in & near the centre that really waste land.

    Land value is starting to eat those away in Dublin, 40 apartments on the site of one 60s house changes the market for them when they go on sale.


  • #2996
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,637 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    what_traffic wrote: »
    So going by this logic.
    Would you propose closing down ALL the current Galway City Bus Services as it suits the few rather than the many?
    No wonder your angry.

    Park and ride at edges of the city is my suggestion. One at every new M6 bypass junction. Certainly until hugh rise comes on stream. Likely not soon.


  • #2997
    youngrun
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭youngrun


    Further information sought by ABP on this project


  • #2998
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    youngrun wrote: »
    Further information sought by ABP on this project

    Any idea what they are looking for?


  • #2999
    youngrun
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭youngrun


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Any idea what they are looking for?

    Got this from someone involved, FI due by end May . May be tight if new surveys etc need to be done


  • #3000
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Park and ride at edges of the city is my suggestion. One at every new M6 bypass junction. Certainly until hugh rise comes on stream. Likely not soon.

    So this is for the many(rural car commuters) and not the few(people living in Galway City)?


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  • #3001
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    MOD:

    There is a thread for everything Galway traffic/public transport/is there a need for a bypass discussion: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109209281

    Please keep this thread for updates and discussion of the M6 Galway City Ring Road scheme.


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