M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

cgcsb · 01-02-2019 12:24pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Really?
Anyhow simpler solution would be to remove on street car parking and remove priority from private cars in the Core City Center. Simple.

Well if only Galway was planned as a denser settlement in the 60s/70s instead of naval gazing, bead rattling and Britain aping, which was all this state was capable of at the time, but sure what's done is done. Motorway/HQDC bypass is probably overkill on the roads front, the population of Conemara is only about 30,000 and Galway is already bypassed by the Quincentennial.

01-02-2019 12:56pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Galway is already bypassed by the Quincentennial.

Anyone spouting this clearly has no clue of the current situation.

cgcsb · 01-02-2019 12:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone spouting this clearly has no clue of the current situation.

I know Galway well, it's pretty small, horrendous traffic, most employment is east of the River, large unplanned settlement to the west, overall poor layout. That' Galway's transport situation in a nutshell.

Sam Russell · 01-02-2019 4:03pm

cgcsb wrote: »

I know Galway well, it's pretty small, horrendous traffic, most employment is east of the River, large unplanned settlement to the west, overall poor layout. That' Galway's transport situation in a nutshell.

If the Bothar Na Treadbh was freeflow with proper bridges and lilo junctions, then much of the problems would disappear - except that the Corrib Quintincentennial Bridge would need either widening for PT and cycles, or a second bridge over to Newcastle - perhaps grabbing some UCG land.

Of course, that would cost a lot less than the €600 million or so that the new road will cost, which might leave enough for a PT system, a few P&R parks, etc. Maybe even a Luas line or two, or a Athenry to Galway commuter two track rail.

cgcsb · 01-02-2019 4:31pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Of course, that would cost a lot less than the €600 million or so that the new road will cost, which might leave enough for a PT system, a few P&R parks, etc. Maybe even a Luas line or two, or a Athenry to Galway commuter two track rail.

PT should be the primary focus, adding a new road is just going to add more cars. Throwing more roads at an urban traffic problem and hoping for the best is a 1960s fallacy, doesn't work, never worked, won't work in the future and it costs too much. Once BusConnects starts and a proper cycling network is built a new motorway will be rendered pointless. There's only 30,000 people in Connemara and little or no bulky industries. A motorway is overkill to connect so few people to the national road network.

Reuben1210 · 01-02-2019 4:36pm

cgcsb wrote: »

PT should be the primary focus, adding a new road is just going to add more cars. Throwing more roads at an urban traffic problem and hoping for the best is a 1960s fallacy, doesn't work, never worked, won't work in the future and it costs too much. Once BusConnects starts and a proper cycling network is built a new motorway will be rendered pointless. There's only 30,000 people in Connemara and little or no bulky industries. A motorway is overkill to connect so few people to the national road network.

That may be so, but you have to look to the future. If this city is going to rival Dublin in any way in terms of attracting employment and thus residents, it needs top quality infrastructure, of which a ring-road is a part. Right now, it may look like overkill, but if it acts as a catalyst for growth and development, it will be a hugely worthwhile investment.

cgcsb · 01-02-2019 4:41pm

Reuben1210 wrote: »

That may be so, but you have to look to the future. If this city is going to rival Dublin in any way in terms of attracting employment and thus residents, it needs top quality infrastructure, of which a ring-road is a part. Right now, it may look like overkill, but if it acts as a catalyst for growth and development, it will be a hugely worthwhile investment.

Motorways prevent development close to them legally.
Galway will never 'rival Dublin'
The most effective way of planning for Galway's future growth is ensuring the availability and attractiveness of sustainable transport modes.
Galway has an immediate mobility problem that can be solved in a few months with a tenth the investment a motorway bypass requires by investing small amounts into bus priority.
Motorways attract cars.
We're going to miss our 2020 targets as it stands.

01-02-2019 6:04pm

There's a separate thread for discussing the merits of the project, good and bad.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057927925/3/#post109212496

Reuben1210 · 01-02-2019 7:06pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Motorways prevent development close to them legally.
Galway will never 'rival Dublin'
The most effective way of planning for Galway's future growth is ensuring the availability and attractiveness of sustainable transport modes.
Galway has an immediate mobility problem that can be solved in a few months with a tenth the investment a motorway bypass requires by investing small amounts into bus priority.
Motorways attract cars.
We're going to miss our 2020 targets as it stands.

Let's take this onto the suggested thread then if you want?

Carol25 · 01-02-2019 9:45pm

Try and not feed the trolls re Galway bypass. They either don’t live in the city or don’t care about the wellbeing of its residents.
The reality is Galway needs an extra bridge at the very least to help it function to sustainable levels. Traffic and bottleneck problems have cost the city and commuter areas jobs and more importantly lives, I’ve experienced this first hand.
P.s. I don’t want to see an argument re public transport in response to this post as no one user seems to be able to give a single concrete example of how to solve the problem, plus sustain and grow jobs, and also allow for new public transport corridors within given infrastructure. If the bypass was to be built, at least infrastructure would be in place to develop public transport routes.

Reuben1210 · 01-02-2019 9:49pm

Carol25 wrote: »

Try and not feed the trolls re Galway bypass. The reality is Galway needs an extra bridge at the very least to help it function to sustainable levels. Traffic and bottleneck

Didn't realise I was dealing with a troll! I've been warned so!

Sam Russell · 01-02-2019 10:20pm

Mod: Cut the backseat modding.

Carawaystick · 02-02-2019 3:35am

cgcsb wrote: »

Motorways prevent development close to them legally.

No they don't. There's new development at the M6 Loughrea junction
New houses beside the M50 at Blanch/Castleknock
Carpark directly underneath the M50 at the Straw Hall
Houses backing onto the M11 at Arklow

Yet there's the N40 in Cork with no private accesses post construction

what_traffic · 04-02-2019 7:35pm

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

If cars can not enter city center that brings number of usable bridges from 4 to 1

Not true , just removes through car traffic. Would start with Salmon Weir and O'Briens Bridge. Prioritize those two bridges for the most efficient modes, walking, cycling and buses.

SeanW · 04-02-2019 8:58pm

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

So your proposal is to not only not build a new bridge to keep cars out of city center, but to reduce cross river traffic further by closing what little capacity there is :eek:

Right this is borderline trolling now imho

Actually now I hope this does happen, its a Brexitesque cutting the nose to spite face move, would kill movement across the city altogether.

No, it's not trolling. These people actually believe this stuff.

cgcsb · 05-02-2019 10:45am

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

So your proposal is to not only not build a new bridge to keep cars out of city center, but to reduce cross river traffic further by closing what little capacity there is :eek:

It'd be closing capacity for cars crossing the river and increasing capacity for people by 10 fold.

what_traffic · 05-02-2019 11:28am

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

So your proposal is to not only not build a new bridge to keep cars out of city center, but to reduce cross river traffic further by closing what little capacity there is :eek:

Incorrect again. You are increasing capacity. More efficient modes. More throughput
This is what the Council are proposing for Salmon Weir anyhow. New Bridge or No Bridge, it going to happen.

Nobody is stopping you driving in - you just will not be able to drive though the City.

veryangryman · 05-02-2019 2:59pm

So with this restricted access proposal, how does it work?

I mean how do you know that a lad driving over the Salmon Weir Bridge is or isnt coming from other side of town and gone through Eyre Square on route?

Or does everyone going into town now have to take the Tuam Road/Prospect Hill approach? Im confused

what_traffic · 05-02-2019 3:26pm

veryangryman wrote: »

So with this restricted access proposal, how does it work?

I mean how do you know that a lad driving over the Salmon Weir Bridge is or isnt coming from other side of town and gone through Eyre Square on route?

Or does everyone going into town now have to take the Tuam Road/Prospect Hill approach? Im confused

Its very simple - If you are in car you drive in and out on the same road. If your on foot, bike or bus - you can cross the bridge. You will not be able to drive over the bridge in a private car - automatic bollards most likely will give the bus drivers access over them.

Again - this is what Galway City Council have proposed for some years now for Salmon Weir Bridge. (Not for O'Briens Bridge)

If you have the paper edition of the Galway City Tribune 21-12-2019 it was mentioned in that. (Online article just has the opening paragraph)
https://connachttribune.ie/council-to-progress-pedestrian-crossing-beside-salmon-weir-bridge-099/

https://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/downloads/news_items/Traffic-Transport/GTS/GTS%20PC%20Boards%20-%20English.pdf
Page 3 (of a 10 PDF)

snowstreams · 05-02-2019 4:07pm

This no car vision of the city centre might just work if a new bridge was built to take away cross city traffic away.

Paddico · 05-02-2019 4:18pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Mod: Cut the backseat modding.

<snip>

cgcsb · 05-02-2019 4:32pm

snowstreams wrote: »

This no car vision of the city centre might just work if a new bridge was built to take away cross city traffic away.

Not really any need. If 80% of journeys within the urban area are completed by sustainable modes, then the quincentennial is more than sufficient to meet the remaining demand. 80% sustainable mode share can be achieved with very small amounts of investment. The bypass as planned will require a whopper toll to make it economic. Continuing to subsidise uneconomic single occupant car journeys is madness in ever more fanciful ways is madness.

cgcsb · 05-02-2019 4:47pm

2011 census shows the following modal split in Galway:

23% Walking
5% Bike
8% Bus
<1% Train
60% Car

If you want reduce traffic in Galway, spend a small amount of money and change that to

25% Walking
25% Bike
30% Bus
2% Train
18% Car

Then the business case for the bypass evaporates, even with a toll. It's a simple matter of enforcement cameras painted on bus lanes and a small investment in cycleways. Dublin is now hitting above 70% in sustainable model share (canal cordon, not GDA) despite virtually feck all spend per person on public transport.

what_traffic · 05-02-2019 5:26pm

snowstreams wrote: »

This no car vision of the city centre might just work if a new bridge was built to take away cross city traffic away.

Its not a no car vision, still be able to drive into the city centre and park in the many multistory car parks, just will not be able to cross through it in a private car.

Carol25 · 05-02-2019 6:22pm

cgcsb wrote: »

2011 census shows the following modal split in Galway:

23% Walking
5% Bike
8% Bus
<1% Train
60% Car

If you want reduce traffic in Galway, spend a small amount of money and change that to

25% Walking
25% Bike
30% Bus
2% Train
18% Car

Then the business case for the bypass evaporates, even with a toll. It's a simple matter of enforcement cameras painted on bus lanes and a small investment in cycleways. Dublin is now hitting above 70% in sustainable model share (canal cordon, not GDA) despite virtually feck all spend per person on public transport.

There’s just the small detail missing of Co. Galway which has more than double the population of the city and whose people all commute into the city daily...

what_traffic · 05-02-2019 6:28pm

Carol25 wrote: »

There’s just the small detail missing of Co. Galway which has more than double the population of the city and whose people all commute into the city daily...

You exaggerate. Not ALL of them work in Galway City, but you are correct in a way in identifying this issue, volume of cars coming into the City from Co. Galway creates many of Car traffic issues in the City. Get those people on buses is the only solution.

serfboard · 05-02-2019 7:21pm

what_traffic wrote: »

you are correct in a way in identifying this issue, volume of cars coming into the City from Co. Galway creates many of Car traffic issues in the City. Get those people on buses is the only solution.

Given that houses are scattered like confetti across the County Galway countryside, instead of being clustered in towns, means that you have no critical mass for bus services. You cannot be sending buses up every boreen in the county, and so the solution is multiple Park n Rides on the approaches to the city, and Bus Lanes from there on in.

SeanW · 05-02-2019 10:29pm

None of what has been suggested as an alternative takes away from the fact that in order to get from East to West, you have go through city streets including the Headford "Road" (which is really a street-road hybrid).

Make the city great again for pedestrians, cyclists, bus users? Awesome, go for it! But don't forget that roads are as important as streets. If you don't provide a road for people to get from the rest of the country to points West, lots of people are still going to be driving up and down the Headford Road for a journey that should be East-West. That's just a fact.

snowstreams · 06-02-2019 11:26am

serfboard wrote: »

Given that houses are scattered like confetti across the County Galway countryside, instead of being clustered in towns, means that you have no critical mass for bus services. You cannot be sending buses up every boreen in the county, and so the solution is multiple Park n Rides on the approaches to the city, and Bus Lanes from there on in.

I know that some people do commute by car & then park in public car parks on the outskirts of the city. Then cycle the rest of the way to their place of work.

This could be a good solution for Galway to build free parking facilties on the outskirts.
The parking would have to be free & maybe have bike lockers to encourage cycling & located in a way that it wouldn't affect the traffic on the outskirts.

youngrun · 06-02-2019 12:32pm

snowstreams wrote: »

I know that some people do commute by car & then park in public car parks on the outskirts of the city. Then cycle the rest of the way to their place of work.

This could be a good solution for Galway to build free parking facilties on the outskirts.
The parking would have to be free & maybe have bike lockers to encourage cycling & located in a way that it wouldn't affect the traffic on the outskirts.

good idea
I do think Park and rides are a good solution immediately to TRAFFIC especially on major routes in and out , plenty of available spaces eg Airport, Racecourse, Claregalway etc, many people do not need to use their car if at work 9-5 for eg, only on way in and out.
And I think the Planning application for the M6 should have been sent in along with a defined specific Public transport plan with detailed action points , and do not think it should progress without

M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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