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Public/Private worker gap to grow

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    #32
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    Source?

    Here ya go friend:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/alarm-at-cost-of-7week-paid-parental-leave-38035345.html


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    #33
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    I'm very well paid and not in need of this additional free money for civil servants.

    It is nonetheless disgraceful that a sector of our workforce gets every gold plated benefit going, while the hard working private sector tax payer foot their bills.

    But hey, dont worry, the ultra hard left never let the facts get in the way of their opinion.

    giphy.gif


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    #34
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    anything that encourages working people rather than non working people to have kids is to be applauded


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    #35
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    anything that encourages working people rather than non working people to have kids is to be applauded

    Indeed, its just a pity that encouragement is directed only at certain sections of society instead of evenly distributed throughout, when it's more beneficial for certain individuals to stay at home and remain in a perpetual state of pregnancy then it becomes a very hard pill to swallow for squeezed private sector drones


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    #36
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    could there be an issue constitutionally? are all the children of the state not meant to be valued equally?


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    #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    This thread exists merely to troll public sector workers for the sake of it. Maybe OP should do without public services altogether, eg fire brigade, ambulance etc etc etc. it’s always possible to live on an offshore island with minimal call upon public services.


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    #38
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,780 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Here ya go friend:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/alarm-at-cost-of-7week-paid-parental-leave-38035345.html

    Where does it say that it is for public sector only?


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    #39
    Teddy Daniels
    Closed Accounts Posts: 445 ✭✭Teddy Daniels


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    could there be an issue constitutionally? are all the children of the state not meant to be valued equally?

    Short answer is no. The main reason is that they are all being treated equally but their parents are sometimes being paid more.

    If I was in the public sector doing my job I’d be on 50-60% less. Fair enough I’d have flexitime and better pension and holidays and full pay for 6 weeks instead of 245 per week.

    There’s never a thread about google employees getting skateboards or Abbott employees getting shares.


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    #40
    relax carry on
    Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Where does it say that it is for public sector only?

    Checked another older article and can't find any mention of it being for public sector only.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/parents-of-newborns-to-get-seven-weeks-paid-leave-each-by-2021-1.3702969

    You seem to have issues with the public sector in general OP. Care to share?


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    #41
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    I'm very well paid and not in need of this additional free money for civil servants.

    It is nonetheless disgraceful that a sector of our workforce gets every gold plated benefit going, while the hard working private sector tax payer foot their bills.

    Correct, footing the bills without the pension or security.


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    #42
    TCM
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭TCM


    Pkiernan wrote:
    Public so called workers to get full parental pay for 7 weeks while us idiots in the private sector will just get the dole equivalent.

    '...so called workers...' The next time you or your kin urgently need a nurse, a doctor, a garda, a fireman, a paramedic etc, etc., call somebody in the private sector.


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    #43
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,642 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    I'm very well paid and not in need of this additional free money for civil servants.

    It is nonetheless disgraceful that a sector of our workforce gets every gold plated benefit going, while the hard working private sector tax payer foot their bills.

    But hey, dont worry, the ultra hard left never let the facts get in the way of their opinion.

    Tell us more about these gold plated benefits? Civil servants have no health insurance, no disability insurance, no bonus, no Christmas party or nights out.

    What gold plated benefits are you talking about?


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    #44
    TCM
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭TCM


    janfebmar wrote:
    Correct, footing the bills without the pension or security.


    Tough, my heart is bleeding for private sector workers.


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    #45
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    TCM wrote: »
    '...so called workers...' The next time you or your kin urgently need a nurse, a doctor, a garda, a fireman, a paramedic etc, etc., call somebody in the private sector.

    Get over yourself. Those people are well paid for their jobs and are more than willing to go on strike if they want to. Then do we call them?

    If you want food, clothing or fuel, then you can call nurse, a doctor, a garda, a fireman, a paramedic etc, etc. Oh wait...

    We should be extremely grateful those lowest paid slaves working picking spuds off the ground for example aren't all out on strike starving the rest of us out of it. They are the real heroes in modern society.

    How much would a nurse do on an empty stomach?

    They certainly wouldn't do much for the wages food and retail staff are on. That's the real wealth gap.


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    #46
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,864 ✭✭✭enricoh


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    This thread exists merely to troll public sector workers for the sake of it. Maybe OP should do without public services altogether, eg fire brigade, ambulance etc etc etc. it’s always possible to live on an offshore island with minimal call upon public services.

    I doubt the op wishes to do without public services altogether. However public servants in ireland get paid 40% more than private sector workers. In the uk its 1%. Instead of closing that gap the government is giving even more benefits. Unfair and unsustainable.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/dan-obrien-how-the-government-continues-to-prioritise-public-sector-pay-levels-above-all-else-37368536.html&ved=2ahUKEwjI_ryZg-LhAhXnXhUIHUz8BGEQFjACegQICRAC&usg=AOvVaw0bGr2cdjc7mQhnBf7qmBib&ampcf=1


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    #47
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Public and semi state hiring like crazy right now.

    Easy to get in during a rising economy. Impossible in a recession.

    May get the CV polished up if public sector is all that.

    Keeping the eye open myself but my private sector job pays a bit too well in comparison.


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    #48
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Correct, footing the bills without the pension or security.

    Ehh, then just get a pension?

    I'm private and I get pension, bonus, shares and health.
    Far better than any public servant doing an equivalent job.

    If your job conditions are sh*t then work to get a better job. Don't whinge that others are doing better than you are.


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    #49
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,963 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Twenty Grand wrote:
    If your job conditions are sh*t then work to get a better job. Don't whinge that others are doing better than you are.


    Unfortunately we don't live in a society of equal opportunities, some will always have poorer opportunities of employment and pay


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    #50
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,642 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    salonfire wrote: »
    Those people are well paid for their jobs and are more than willing to go on strike if they want to. Then do we call them?
    More than willing? Do you think any nurse or teacher or paramedic wants to spend their days walking up and down outside in the pi$$ings of rain with no pay instead of doing their paid job inside? Strikes are a last resort.

    And yes, if you need the nurse or the paramedic when you're on strike, you do still call them - because they always continue to provide emergency service during strikes.
    salonfire wrote: »
    We should be extremely grateful those lowest paid slaves working picking spuds off the ground for example aren't all out on strike starving the rest of us out of it. They are the real heroes in modern society.

    How much would a nurse do on an empty stomach?
    Maybe we should be encouraging the lowest paid slaves to organise and unionise so they can make sure they get decent working conditions instead?
    salonfire wrote: »
    They certainly wouldn't do much for the wages food and retail staff are on. That's the real wealth gap.
    Yes, that's the gap all right - the gap between jobs that require three or four years of college, supervised work placement, regulated continuous professional development and the risk of going to prison if you screw up and jobs that can be done by a 17 year old between 5th year and 6th year.

    Why would you expect the wages of unqualified roles and roles that require professional qualifications to be the same?


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    #51
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,642 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    enricoh wrote: »
    I doubt the op wishes to do without public services altogether. However public servants in ireland get paid 40% more than private sector workers. In the uk its 1%. Instead of closing that gap the government is giving even more benefits. Unfair and unsustainable.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/dan-obrien-how-the-government-continues-to-prioritise-public-sector-pay-levels-above-all-else-37368536.html&ved=2ahUKEwjI_ryZg-LhAhXnXhUIHUz8BGEQFjACegQICRAC&usg=AOvVaw0bGr2cdjc7mQhnBf7qmBib&ampcf=1

    The problem with Dan O'Brien articles in the Indo (and most articles that mention 'public sector' in the Indo) is that you need to dig behind the details.

    Bland comparisons between UK and Irish public sector staff is comparing apples and oranges. The UK have outsourced many traditional public sector jobs, so prison officers, healthcare staff, school support staff in the UK will often be private sector. So the comparisons don't really hold.

    But Dan is quite happy to gloss over this.

    This proposal is exactly the same as maternity leave. The state provides a basic level of service, and decent employers (public or private) top this up.

    Sorry if the facts don't suit those who want to fuel false division.


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    #52
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,780 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    enricoh wrote: »
    I doubt the op wishes to do without public services altogether. However public servants in ireland get paid 40% more than private sector workers. In the uk its 1%. Instead of closing that gap the government is giving even more benefits. Unfair and unsustainable.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/dan-obrien-how-the-government-continues-to-prioritise-public-sector-pay-levels-above-all-else-37368536.html&ved=2ahUKEwjI_ryZg-LhAhXnXhUIHUz8BGEQFjACegQICRAC&usg=AOvVaw0bGr2cdjc7mQhnBf7qmBib&ampcf=1

    Salaries at the top of the private sector are far higher than at the top of the public sector. Just take a look at the what the bosses in Paddy Powers pay themselves for instance.

    It is not the fault of public sector workers if these private sector businesses overpay their bosses and underpay their workers.


  • Options
    #53
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Salaries at the top of the private sector are far higher than at the top of the public sector. Just take a look at the what the bosses in Paddy Powers pay themselves for instance.

    At the bottom of the private sector, workers have feck all rights or benefits, whereas the public sector tends to offer the same benefits (paternity, pension etc) at the low end.

    But if you compare higher end jobs with the private sector the terms are much less attractive. The graduates who come top of their class are not competing to get into the public sector, in general.

    And there are few topics with more subjective use of data than any discussion on the Irish public sector. Many journalists are completely without principle in this respect.


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    #54
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,252 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    I’m a public sector worker with a nice extra income from private sector (self employed) work.

    I’m self employed in the private sector, entirely dependent on the quality of my work, and the vagaries of the marketplace. I do have a solid steady income to fall back on, though. And a ridiculous amount of holidays every year and a defined benefit pension on the way.

    I’ve no idea who to complain about. I begrudge myself...

    :D


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    #55
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    More than willing? Do you think any nurse or teacher or paramedic wants to spend their days walking up and down outside in the pi$$ings of rain with no pay instead of doing their paid job inside? Strikes are a last resort.

    Yes, of course they do.

    In their self serving interest, it is usually better for them in the long term to strike. See the increases in public pay in the period from 1999 to 2008 for proof of that.
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    And yes, if you need the nurse or the paramedic when you're on strike, you do still call them - because they always continue to provide emergency service during strikes.

    And what if I don't have a medical emergency but an chronic medical condition? Who do I call then? Can I be 100% that a service will always be provided to me? No of course not.
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Maybe we should be encouraging the lowest paid slaves to organise and unionise so they can make sure they get decent working conditions instead?

    Great idea there genius, and further increase the cost of food prices.
    I take it then you have no issue of raising prices in the economy. So then the increasing rental, childcare, insurance costs we have is not even a problem?

    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Yes, that's the gap all right - the gap between jobs that require three or four years of college, supervised work placement, regulated continuous professional development and the risk of going to prison if you screw up and jobs that can be done by a 17 year old between 5th year and 6th year.

    Why would you expect the wages of unqualified roles and roles that require professional qualifications to be the same?

    Exactly. Those pampered conditions of sitting in a lecture hall or college library are not extended to all.

    That's why the very bottom of society is made up of people doing far more fundamentally important jobs for crap pay in crap conditions.

    Yet all we hear of the public sector patting themselves in the back congratulating themselves how important they are to the rest of us.

    We never hear of them acknowledging the hard work of others putting food on their plates. They'll take full advantage of competition when it suits them though, nipping into the local Tesco for a litre of milk for 78c rather than the local shop where it could be €1.30.


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    #56
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    The problem with Dan O'Brien articles in the Indo (and most articles that mention 'public sector' in the Indo) is that you need to dig behind the details.

    Bland comparisons between UK and Irish public sector staff is comparing apples and oranges. The UK have outsourced many traditional public sector jobs, so prison officers, healthcare staff, school support staff in the UK will often be private sector. So the comparisons don't really hold.

    But Dan is quite happy to gloss over this.

    This proposal is exactly the same as maternity leave. The state provides a basic level of service, and decent employers (public or private) top this up.

    Sorry if the facts don't suit those who want to fuel false division.

    That's a great idea.

    That's what we should be doing ourselves if it saves us a bit of cash.


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    #57
    BBFAN
    Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭BBFAN


    I was surprised at first when I joined Boards to find the percentage of Boardsies that are public sector but after a while I noticed how so many post all day and night whilst most in the private sector wouldn't have 5 minutes a day to post on Boards so that made sense to me.

    Because I've previously worked in the public sector and despite the great benefits I couldn't wait to get out of it, soul destroying. Nothing but red tape and old timers who wouldn't move an envelope from A to B because that's not their job.

    A college friend of mine worked in the public sector all through our degree programme and studied for at least 4 hours a day whilst at "work".


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    #58
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,780 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    BBFAN wrote: »
    I was surprised at first when I joined Boards to find the percentage of Boardsies that are public sector but after a while I noticed how so many post all day and night whilst most in the private sector wouldn't have 5 minutes a day to post on Boards so that made sense to me.

    There must be thousands of posts on Boards every day. Where do you find the time to do this detailed analysis? What is the percentage who are public sector?


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    #59
    backspin.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    The problem with Dan O'Brien articles in the Indo (and most articles that mention 'public sector' in the Indo) is that you need to dig behind the details.

    Bland comparisons between UK and Irish public sector staff is comparing apples and oranges. The UK have outsourced many traditional public sector jobs, so prison officers, healthcare staff, school support staff in the UK will often be private sector. So the comparisons don't really hold.

    But Dan is quite happy to gloss over this.

    This proposal is exactly the same as maternity leave. The state provides a basic level of service, and decent employers (public or private) top this up.

    Sorry if the facts don't suit those who want to fuel false division.

    I wouldn't trust anything the indo has to say about the public sector they have been slandering them for years.


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    #60
    BBFAN
    Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭BBFAN


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    There must be thousands of posts on Boards every day. Where do you find the time to do this detailed analysis? What is the percentage who are public sector?

    Doesn't need a detailed analysis at all. Any post about public vs private shows up the percentages immediately. :rolleyes:


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    #61
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,780 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    BBFAN wrote: »
    Doesn't need a detailed analysis at all. Any post about public vs private shows up the percentages immediately. :rolleyes:

    What are the percentages?


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