Public/Private worker gap to grow

Kimbot

Augeo wrote: »

The jobspec for a CO coupled with the starting salary is indicative that the gig is a role that is €10/hour work.

Which job spec would that be?

Kimbot

Kimbot wrote: »

Which job spec would that be?

Have a look at the entry criteria etc when there's a recruitment campaign.

Here's a titbit for you "The role of a Clerical Officer is to assist Senior Officers / Managers with clerical work in a government department. Clerical Officers work in all departments in Ireland and provide vital input to their team through a range of general office duties"

Clerical work............clerical work.........Clerical work generally involves day-to-day office tasks, such as answering phones and entering data into spreadsheets. These tasks may be performed by secretaries, office clerks and administrative assistants. Other duties traditionally associated with clerical work include: Word processing and typing

Now again, I was specifically referring to the motor tax roles and simialr. No doubt ye have examples of COs doing really complex tasks that would command 6 figure salaries in the private sector etc etc etc......me hole

Charles Babbage

enricoh wrote: »

The state is so decent to its employees it pays them 40% more than the private sector does. Just pure vote buying, yet again.
Iirc we are the third most heavily indebted country in the first world. Are we gonna aim to be number 1!

No, the set of employees the State has get 40% more, they are not the same people. In the private sector most well paid people are not employees, a doctor in a public job is an employee, one in private practice earns more but is self employed. People in tech companies have salaries, but it is the stock options etc that make it worthwhile.

AndrewJRenko

Augeo wrote: »

Oh I'll own it alright, no problem.
Most COs are doing roles that are €10/hour gigs.

did you pull up whoever wrote this sh1t......... "Public servants are just better people all round. Harder workers, more contentious, better behaved, more educated, more helpful, the list goes on" ...... no, I don't think you did.

No one else compared a particular group of people to monkeys, simply because of a personal chip on shoulder about one aspect of public pay policy. That's a fairly dispicable action, isn't it?

evolving_doors

... and what about the teachers.
Can we get back to giving out about them now?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No one else compared a particular group of people to monkeys, simply because of a personal chip on shoulder about one aspect of public pay policy. That's a fairly dispicable action, isn't it?

Hardly a despicable action really.
I said the increments are to keep the monkeys in the zoo.......... I have no chip on my shoulder either. I'm just saying things as they are without a sugarcoating.
If you think that's despicable don't turn on the news any evening soon, there are awful things happening all around the world.

AndrewJRenko

Augeo wrote: »

Hardly a despicable action really.
I said the increments are to keep the monkeys in the zoo.......... I have no chip on my shoulder either. I'm just saying things as they are without a sugarcoating.
If you think that's despicable don't turn on the news any evening soon, there are awful things happening all around the world.

You're comparing a particular group of people to animals, because you disagree with public pay policy. That is absolutely dispicable, regardless of how much you try to distract attention from it.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You're comparing a particular group of people to animals, ..........

Saying "keeping the monkeys in the zoo" isn't comparing folk to animals.
But if you think it does I'm not actually bothered, so you can think that
I'm actually happy you do
You had issue with my views before I mentioned monkeys, it's just given you something to harp on about. Work away Enjoy it

backspin.

The PS unions need to be pushing for a 4 day week. That is the future.

kowloon

Would you prefer more yourself or is it just important that others get less? I've worked Christmas so guys with families could have time with their kids, I didn't sit there stewing in my own piss over it. If the Public Service give parents decent time off I have no problem with it, the private sector will just have to up their game to compete.

DoozerT6

Augeo wrote: »

Have a look at the entry criteria etc when there's a recruitment campaign.

Here's a titbit for you "The role of a Clerical Officer is to assist Senior Officers / Managers with clerical work in a government department. Clerical Officers work in all departments in Ireland and provide vital input to their team through a range of general office duties"

Clerical work............clerical work.........Clerical work generally involves day-to-day office tasks, such as answering phones and entering data into spreadsheets. These tasks may be performed by secretaries, office clerks and administrative assistants. Other duties traditionally associated with clerical work include: Word processing and typing

Now again, I was specifically referring to the motor tax roles and simialr. No doubt ye have examples of COs doing really complex tasks that would command 6 figure salaries in the private sector etc etc etc......me hole

Many clerical roles involve a LOT more than many people think. I'm clerical staff, and the amount of admin work I do that people would never even think about would make your head spin. I work very hard. So do my colleagues. And we don't earn anywhere CLOSE to six figures, lol. Admittedly some clerical roles involve little more than answering phones or data entry, but these would be entry level roles. Most clerical roles are essential, integral parts of how their department functions. Take that person away without replacing them, and you'd soon miss them, often to the detriment of the office/department.

The big shots make the decisions, those on the lower rungs of the ladder do the actual work to make those decisions a reality.

Twenty Grand

kowloon wrote: »

Would you prefer more yourself or is it just important that others get less? I've worked Christmas so guys with families could have time with their kids, I didn't sit there stewing in my own piss over it. If the Public Service give parents decent time off I have no problem with it, the private sector will just have to up their game to compete.

Some people just love to b*tch about the PS.

Everyone thinks their job is tough.
Everyone thinks they're not being paid enough.
PS are just organised so they can push for better conditions. I don't agree with much of what the unions do, but by god they get results for their members.

BBFAN

Deleted User wrote: »

So OP can't support statement and disappears?

I wasn't sure until today either but apparently OP is correct. Public sector workers will receive full pay whilst private sector workers will get 245.


What's your answer to that now?

dxhound2005

BBFAN wrote: »

I wasn't sure until today either but apparently OP is correct. Public sector workers will receive full pay whilst private sector workers will get 245.


What's your answer to that now?

Why do you say apparently?

BBFAN

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Why do you say apparently?

That's what you pulled out of that post?

Okay, OP IS correct. Is that okay with you?

relax carry on

BBFAN wrote: »

I wasn't sure until today either but apparently OP is correct. Public sector workers will receive full pay whilst private sector workers will get 245.


What's your answer to that now?

That's not what is happening. There's nothing in the changes announced that say Public sector workers get full pay and you private sector peasants can make do with the 245. All workers get 245 euro and it's up to each employer to top it up if they wish. If the public sector top it up, then that's a decision for the public sector employers to make. There's nothing stopping private sector employers topping it up.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/pressoffice/Pages/PR230419.aspx

dxhound2005

BBFAN wrote: »

That's what you pulled out of that post?

Okay, OP IS correct. Is that okay with you?

But the OP is not correct.

AndrewJRenko

backspin. wrote: »

The PS unions need to be pushing for a 4 day week. That is the future.

They're way ahead of you;

https://www.forsa.ie/unions-call-for-four-day-working-week/

Augeo wrote: »

Saying "keeping the monkeys in the zoo" isn't comparing folk to animals.
But if you think it does I'm not actually bothered, so you can think that
I'm actually happy you do
You had issue with my views before I mentioned monkeys, it's just given you something to harp on about. Work away Enjoy it

Actually, you're right, now that I look back on it. It's not comparing folk to animals. It's much, much worse than that - referring to folks AS animals, for no other reason than you disapprove of the pay policy that is entirely out of their control. Like I said initially, this says so much more about you than it does about them, in terms of your ability to present a coherent argument without personal insults on a weak target. Classy.

janfebmar

enricoh wrote: »

The state is so decent to its employees it pays them 40% more than the private sector does. Just pure vote buying, yet again.
Iirc we are the third most heavily indebted country in the first world. Are we gonna aim to be number 1!

Heading that way. The public service pension time bomb will cripple the country, while most private sector workers will have to make do with a pension much much less.

Twenty Grand

janfebmar wrote: »

Heading that way. The public service pension time bomb will cripple the country, while most private sector workers will have to make do with a pension much much less.

Most private sector workers haven't even started a pension and many have started too late to make a meaningful difference. The average person starts at 37 and contributes less than 12%, meaning that even with the govt. pension (which will likely be a lot less due to many factors) they will have a tough end to their live.

Blaming this solely on the public sector is simplistic at best.

janfebmar

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Most private sector workers haven't even started a pension and many have started too late to make a meaningful difference. The average person starts at 37 and contributes less than 12%, meaning that even with the govt. pension (which will likely be a lot less due to many factors) they will have a tough end to their live.

Given that average private sector pay is so much less than average public sector pay, many private sector workers cannot afford to save much more for their pensions, certainly not enough more to have the same golden pension as a public sector worker. It would cost €1.2 million to buy a typical Garda pension for example....how would the average private sector worker be able to afford to buy that in the 30 year working life of a Garda? After paying rent, mortgage, childcare, and everything else? David McWilliams and Eddie Hobbs and Colm McCarthy are right.

Twenty Grand

janfebmar wrote: »

Given that average private sector pay is so much less than average public sector pay, many private sector workers cannot afford to save much more for their pensions, certainly not enough more to have the same golden pension as a public sector worker. It would cost €1.2 million to buy a typical Garda pension for example....how would the average private sector worker be able to afford to buy that in the 30 year working life of a Garda? After paying rent, mortgage, childcare, and everything else? David McWilliams and Eddie Hobbs and Colm McCarthy are right.

And are public sector workers not paying rent, mortgage, childcare and everything else too?

You cannot make generic wage comparisons between public and private.

You cannot use a static average wage as basis for pension calculation.

Many private sector workers cannot be bothered planning a pension. Many do not want to. Many just leave it to late. In public sector, their employer forces them to.

Where did you get that 1.2million figure from?

Again, you're being far too simplistic.

AndrewJRenko

janfebmar wrote: »

Heading that way. The public service pension time bomb will cripple the country, while most private sector workers will have to make do with a pension much much less.

Yeah, it's such a shame that the National Pension Reserve Fund had to be blown to bail out the (private sector) banks that ruined our economy not so long ago.

janfebmar

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yeah, it's such a shame that the National Pension Reserve Fund had to be blown to bail out the (private sector) banks that ruined our economy not so long ago.

The bankers and regulator and government are all public sector jobs, none lost their pensions even for screwing up.

Hundreds of thousands lost their jobs, nobody in the public sector did.

Riskymove

janfebmar wrote: »

Given that average private sector pay is so much less than average public sector pay, many private sector workers cannot afford to save much more for their pensions, certainly not enough more to have the same golden pension as a public sector worker. It would cost €1.2 million to buy a typical Garda pension for example.....

using the Garda example is a deflection, they have an advanced pension scheme but represent a fraction of the public service

someone entering the general public service today goes on to the Single Pension Scheme. The age for getting pension is 68 so someone could be working for up to 50 years, paying 12-14% of their salary each year towards their pension.

The pension will be based on average earnings and not final salary as before. The OAP pension is also incorporated into their overall pension which will reduce the pension they get from PS career.

its still a good pension (if you work for 40-50 years fulltime and get to a reasonable level of responsibility) but I don't think it can be called gold plated anymore

Geuze

janfebmar wrote: »

The bankers and regulator and government are all public sector jobs, none lost their pensions even for screwing up.

Hundreds of thousands lost their jobs, nobody in the public sector did.

Bank staff are not PS.

While it is true that nobody in the PS was made compulsory redundant, overall headcount fell sharply.

Early retirements, contracts not renewed, outgoing staff not replaced.

So the number of staff fell by thousands and thousands.

Plus all staff took two pay cuts, some took three pay cuts.

Cuts to basic pay happened very rarely in the private sector.

AndrewJRenko

janfebmar wrote: »

The bankers and regulator and government are all public sector jobs, none lost their pensions even for screwing up.

Hundreds of thousands lost their jobs, nobody in the public sector did.

Eh bankers are private sector, not public. Pensions are private property, and can't be withheld in public sector or private sector.

salonfire

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yeah, it's such a shame that the National Pension Reserve Fund had to be blown to bail out the (private sector) banks that ruined our economy not so long ago.

And running a spending deficit was just fine for the economy was it?

AndrewJRenko

salonfire wrote: »

And running a spending deficit was just fine for the economy was it?

Yes, it literally was fine until the banks blew up the economy, nationally and internationally. But if you have a problem with the policy, you should take it up with the politicians who made the relevant decisions.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yeah, it's such a shame that the National Pension Reserve Fund had to be blown to bail out the (private sector) banks that ruined our economy not so long ago.

Didn't the monkeys use the banks at all?