Public/Private worker gap to grow

backspin.

BBFAN wrote: »

I was surprised at first when I joined Boards to find the percentage of Boardsies that are public sector but after a while I noticed how so many post all day and night whilst most in the private sector wouldn't have 5 minutes a day to post on Boards so that made sense to me.

Ah yeah busy little bees barely a minute to even eat a sandwich.. Irish private sector.. best in the world.

salonfire

backspin. wrote: »

I wouldn't trust anything the indo has to say about the public sector they have been slandering them for years.

Not factually incorrect though.

Without the Independent, we'd all be thinking the local Garda is earning just €23,000 per year.

Luckily the Independent did some research of the actual figures and found that with allowances it was significantly more.

blanch152

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The problem with Dan O'Brien articles in the Indo (and most articles that mention 'public sector' in the Indo) is that you need to dig behind the details.

Bland comparisons between UK and Irish public sector staff is comparing apples and oranges. The UK have outsourced many traditional public sector jobs, so prison officers, healthcare staff, school support staff in the UK will often be private sector. So the comparisons don't really hold.

But Dan is quite happy to gloss over this.

This proposal is exactly the same as maternity leave. The state provides a basic level of service, and decent employers (public or private) top this up.

Sorry if the facts don't suit those who want to fuel false division.

Correct.

However, there are a number of other particular differences between the UK and Ireland.

In Ireland, some very basic services - catering, construction, caretaking, cleaning - just to name the "c"s have been contracted out. Contract cleaning is ubiquitous in the public service in Ireland, meaning that average salaries will be higher. That isn't true of all of the British public service.

The best comparison is to compare job with job, like with like, and take into account all relevant compensation benefits. When you do that, the so-called differences between Ireland and the UK reduce.

janfebmar

We all have friends, partners, relations who are public sector workers, we all know they are on average better paid, better pensioned and work less.

Mongfinder General

dresden8 wrote: »

You should get a better job.

And pay more tax to fund public services. You'll tip the poster over the edge.

The OP needs to learn to keep handing over his money and know that he'll get rode any which way our politicians want. Lube up, paye boy!

dxhound2005

salonfire wrote: »

Not factually incorrect though.

Without the Independent, we'd all be thinking the local Garda is earning just €23,000 per year.

Luckily the Independent did some research of the actual figures and found that with allowances it was significantly more.

But why blame the public sector workers for low pay in the private sector? When business can afford to pay their bosses vast sums, they can't plead the poor mouth when it comes to paying their workers.

salonfire

endacl wrote: »

I’m a public sector worker with a nice extra income from private sector (self employed) work.

I’m self employed in the private sector, entirely dependent on the quality of my work, and the vagaries of the marketplace. I do have a solid steady income to fall back on, though. And a ridiculous amount of holidays every year and a defined benefit pension on the way.

I’ve no idea who to complain about. I begrudge myself...

Maybe, you should complain about the tax-man ... if you are in the public sector, you are getting absolutely screwed by tax and pension deductions thankfully.

At lease those in the private sector can bypass the tax man in ways, like stock options, medical insurance and max out the pension contributions.

backspin.

salonfire wrote: »

Not factually incorrect though.

Without the Independent, we'd all be thinking the local Garda is earning just €23,000 per year.

Luckily the Independent did some research of the actual figures and found that with allowances it was significantly more.

I've seen enough blatant untruths from them over that least decade to know they are not to be trusted. Believe it if you want though.

Twenty Grand

janfebmar wrote: »

We all have friends, partners, relations who are public sector workers, we all know they are on average better paid, better pensioned and work less.

Do we?

I know plenty of nurses. Hours are sh*t, pay is sh*t, conditions are sh*t and most of their colleagues are emigrating for better treatment.

salonfire

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Do we?

I know plenty of nurses. Hours are sh*t, pay is sh*t, conditions are sh*t and most of their colleagues are emigrating for better treatment.

And many will return.

This generation of nurses that are emigrating are in their 20s and early 30s.
When it comes to raising families, many of them return.

The local primary school down the road in Dubai isn't as appealing when the kids come along.

dxhound2005

Charles Babbage wrote: »

At the bottom of the private sector, workers have feck all rights or benefits, whereas the public sector tends to offer the same benefits (paternity, pension etc) at the low end.

But if you compare higher end jobs with the private sector the terms are much less attractive. The graduates who come top of their class are not competing to get into the public sector, in general.

And there are few topics with more subjective use of data than any discussion on the Irish public sector. Many journalists are completely without principle in this respect.

If I am reading this right, the brightest and the best are going into top management in the private sector. With a view to getting massive salaries compared to what they could get in the public sector. And at the same time they want to depress the wages of their workers. I suppose it's human nature, but not a great reflection on the private sector.

Twenty Grand

salonfire wrote: »

And many will return.

This generation of nurses that are emigrating are in their 20s and early 30s.
When it comes to raising families, many of them return.

The local primary school down the road in Dubai isn't as appealing when the kids come along.

Really? Are all those who emigrated a decade ago back?

Some are but many are not. Dubai might not appeal, but Canada, US, UK, Australia and plenty others are just as nice as here.

Wildly Boaring

janfebmar wrote: »

We all have friends, partners, relations who are public sector workers, we all know they are on average better paid, better pensioned and work less.

Really?
I've 2 family members in public s.
Both degree qualified and with 10 to 15 years exp.

Their net pay is ****e.

Yep they have more holidays and may have a better pension.

Their net pay is ****e. Really ****e.

backspin.

Anyone on this thread on boards back in 2009 - 2012? It was non stop anti PS threads. Lesson i learned was nobody on either side changed their position on anything regardless of the facts presented. It will be the same here.

salonfire

dxhound2005 wrote: »

But why blame the public sector workers for low pay in the private sector? When business can afford to pay their bosses vast sums, they can't plead the poor mouth when it comes to paying their workers.

I wasn't blaming the public sector for low pay in the private sector.

I'm more than thankful there is low pay in the private sector if it means I can get a basket load of stuff for a tenner in Dealz.

But at the same time I acknowledge there are those who are in a crap position. They are far more honest and hard-working than their better paid compatriots

Not that we hear much about it, our media is filled with the public sector whinging how hard they have it and reminding us how thankful we should be for their ****ty service they decide they feel like doing at any point in time.

salonfire

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If I am reading this right, the brightest and the best are going into top management in the private sector. With a view to getting massive salaries compared to what they could get in the public sector. And at the same time they want to depress the wages of their workers. I suppose it's human nature, but not a great reflection on the private sector.

Of course it is human nature.

And you'll have public sector workers doing the exact same, calling around all the possible call centers staffed by people on the bare minimum, looking for a bargain on their car insurance, house insurance or broadband. Or hopping on the cheapest Ryanair flight where staff are barely paid at all.

Not a great reflection on the public sector is it? Where do you think the bargains come from fundamentally?

Twenty Grand

salonfire wrote: »

I wasn't blaming the public sector for low pay in the private sector.

I'm more than thankful there is low pay in the private sector if it means I can get a basket load of stuff for a tenner in Dealz.

But at the same time I acknowledge there are those who are in a crap position. They are far more honest and hard-working than their better paid compatriots

Not that we hear much about it, our media is filled with the public sector whinging how hard they have it and reminding us how thankful we should be for their ****ty service they decide they feel like doing at any point in time.

So what's your point?

You're happy people are paid sh*te wages cause you get cheap stuff, but you just want to draw attention that they work harder than better paid people doing a different job.

dxhound2005

There are around 1.9 million in the private sector and around 300,000 in the public sector. When comparisons are being done on average weekly pay, are the number of hours taken into account? Many in the private sector would be part time and having their wage topped up by the dole. So their weekly pay would not be a fair comparison with a full time worker in the public sector.

Part-time workers
Where a Jobseeker's Benefit recipient is working for part of a week, the amount of JB they are paid is based on a 5-day week. This means that for each day that a person is employed, 1/5th of the normal rate of Jobseeker's Benefit is deducted from their payment. If they get part-time work for 2 days, they will get 3/5ths of the normal Jobseeker's Benefit for that week and if they get part-time work for 3 days they will get 2/5ths of the normal rate of Jobseeker’s Benefit for the week.

listermint

Did ever just say fk it , I'm healthy I'm working and my family's happy.



Life's great.



Life is great.

salonfire

Twenty Grand wrote: »

So what's your point?

You're happy people are paid sh*te wages cause you get cheap stuff, but you just want to draw attention that they work harder than better paid people doing a different job.

I'm not the only one.

But I'm not the hypocrite saying people should unionize and saying how it is a terrible thing to have low pay and how it is their own fault.

When it comes to pay, those in unions are quick to point out how hard off they have it (not true compared to others) yet don't give a second thought of how they benefit off the backs of others low pay. They are just as willing for competition to work when it is on their favour.

salonfire

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Really? Are all those who emigrated a decade ago back?

Some are but many are not. Dubai might not appeal, but Canada, US, UK, Australia and plenty others are just as nice as here.

And there's plenty of nurses in India and the Philiphines who are willing to come here. Surely nursing unions should be out in those countries encouraging them to come to Ireland where pay and conditions are better than India.
Swings and roundabouts.

Nurses, like all union propaganda is about feathering their own nests.


When it comes to the Gardai then, maybe we should cut their salaries? After all, there's thousands of applicants for their jobs and can be easily replaced.

blanch152

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Really?
I've 2 family members in public s.
Both degree qualified and with 10 to 15 years exp.

Their net pay is ****e.

Yep they have more holidays and may have a better pension.

Their net pay is ****e. Really ****e.

Headline salaries forget about the 6.5% compulsory pension contributions, and the extra 10% pension contribution on any decent salary.

Effectively, any decent public servant is paying an extra 16.5% in pension contributions comparable to a similar private sector employee.

dxhound2005

salonfire wrote: »

Of course it is human nature.

And you'll have public sector workers doing the exact same, calling around all the possible call centers staffed by people on the bare minimum, looking for a bargain on their car insurance, house insurance or broadband. Or hopping on the cheapest Ryanair flight where staff are barely paid at all.

Not a great reflection on the public sector is it? Where do you think the bargains come from fundamentally?

You can find out easily how much those companies are making in profits, and how much their top management are paid. How much do you think Michael O'Leary takes home?

That will show that the blame for the low wages is greed on the part of the top management, not pressure from the public to offer good value.

n97 mini

I think the OP made the point (badly) that the private sector fund the public sector. One is profitable, the other is not. And therefore it's unfair that (paid from the tax take) the public sector are being extended benefits that the private sector (paid from the tax take) are not. He/she is not suggesting that private sector employers pay for parental leave, but that private sector employees get the same benefits (paid from the tax take) from the system.

Not an unreasonable argument to me, just a point badly made.

listermint

n97 mini wrote: »

I think the OP made the point (badly) that the private sector fund the public sector. One is profitable, the other is not. And therefore it's unfair that (paid from the tax take) the public sector are being extended benefits that the private sector (paid from the tax take) are not. He/she is not suggesting that private sector employers pay for parental leave, but that private sector employees get the same benefits (paid from the tax take) from the system.

Not an unreasonable argument to me, just a point badly made.

Nah. It's actually a poor point.

Two reasons.

1. He could get a job in the public sector if he wanted.

2. He could get a job in a private sector company that gives these benefits. Mine gives 8 weeks



His point is stupid. He has choices..as does everyone


But sure look he decided to get angry. That helps .....

relax carry on

n97 mini wrote: »

I think the OP made the point (badly) that the private sector fund the public sector. One is profitable, the other is not. And therefore it's unfair that (paid from the tax take) the public sector are being extended benefits that the private sector (paid from the tax take) are not. He/she is not suggesting that private sector employers pay for parental leave, but that private sector employees get the same benefits (paid from the tax take) from the system.

Not an unreasonable argument to me, just a point badly made.

Per the article about the extended leave, it's nothing to do with the public sector. It's applicable to both private & public.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/parents-of-newborns-to-get-seven-weeks-paid-leave-each-by-2021-1.3702969

salonfire

listermint wrote: »

Nah. It's actually a poor point.

Two reasons.

1. He could get a job in the public sector if he wanted.

2. He could get a job in a private sector company that gives these benefits. Mine gives 8 weeks



His point is stupid. He has choices..as does everyone


But sure look he decided to get angry. That helps .....

If everyone who wants a job in the public sector can get one, why is there panels?

n97 mini

listermint wrote: »

Nah. It's actually a poor point.

Two reasons.

1. He could get a job in the public sector if he wanted.

2. He could get a job in a private sector company that gives these benefits. Mine gives 8 weeks



His point is stupid. He has choices..as does everyone


But sure look he decided to get angry. That helps .....

Personally I think if the taxpayer is funding benefits, there should be equality among recipients. That should be the baseline. By all means get a new job if you want more than that.

n97 mini

relax carry on wrote: »

Per the article about the extended leave, it's nothing to do with the public sector. It's applicable to both private & public.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/parents-of-newborns-to-get-seven-weeks-paid-leave-each-by-2021-1.3702969

It doesn't apply to me, so I didn't take any notice. Is the OP's claim of full pay in the public sector accurate? A search for the word "pay" in that article results in no hits.

blanch152

n97 mini wrote: »

I think the OP made the point (badly) that the private sector fund the public sector. One is profitable, the other is not. And therefore it's unfair that (paid from the tax take) the public sector are being extended benefits that the private sector (paid from the tax take) are not. He/she is not suggesting that private sector employers pay for parental leave, but that private sector employees get the same benefits (paid from the tax take) from the system.

Not an unreasonable argument to me, just a point badly made.

You are missing the point.

In the public service the gap between highest paid and lower paid is small. In the private sector, it is huge, because the highest paid get millions.

Somehow, that means the ordinary private sector worker should blame the public sector worker??????? Nonsense. The problem is the high salaries in the private sector.