Meanwhile, over in New York................

Yep, this genius apparently wanted to torch a cathedral:

It's hard to say exactly what his intentions were, but I think the totality of circumstances of an individual walking into an iconic location like St. Patrick's Cathedral carrying over four gallons of gasoline, two bottles of lighter fluid and lighters is something that we would have great concern over," Miller said. "His story is not consistent."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ny...ks-church/ar-BBW2Yh2?li=BBnbcA1&OCID=AVRES000

After Ol Moanie Joanie Burtons comments in the Dail about further gun control in Ireland post NZ.We should blizzard her offices with postcards,letters and emails of this below.[Obviously without the Union Jack bit and maybe in green and orange,with her Dail omments added ,so she knows where and what it is about
]

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

After Ol Moanie Joanie Burtons comments in the Dail about further gun control in Ireland post NZ.We should blizzard her offices with postcards,letters and emails of this below.[Obviously without the Union Jack bit and maybe in green and orange,with her Dail omments added ,so she knows where and what it is about
]

They'll be sounding off with all types of sh*te with the Euro/Council elections next month.

Sort of'on topic' rather than off topic, but a quick question:
S.I. 21/2008 has a section as follows:

(c) the following long firearms (not being assault rifles or bullpup rifles):

(i) single-shot or repeating rifled centre-fire firearms of a calibre not exceeding 7.62 millimetres (.308 inch) and whose overall length is greater than 90 centimetres,

(ii) single-shot, repeating or semi-automatic rim-fire firearms designed to fire rim-fire percussion ammunition and with a magazine having a capacity of not more than 10 rounds,

Is that to say they aren't specifying a calibre limit for rimfires? Amendments after this don't seem to mention it either.

Cass wrote: »

SI337/2009 amends SI 21/2008 to specify 0.22 inch long rifle rimfire ammunition.

I missed that bit. If that supercedes 4.(2)(e) would it not mean that 4.(2)(c) is unchanged? Is the (e) section not just for short firerarms? Sorry if I'm asking a dumb question, the way these are written annoys the hell out of me.

Ah, true. After BREXIT there won't be ANY UK MEPs, though, not that we see or hear anything about them, apart from how much money they are raking in on our behalf, poor souls that they are.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Yup,and just remember these MEPs from Ireland who voted FOR the EU gun ban when they pitch up at your door,and you are in the polling booth.

RELAND***

In the light of incoming EuroParl elections, I would like to take a chance and remind you which Irish MEPs voted FOR the EU Gun Ban in March 2017.

#eugunban #firearmsunited #gunownersremember #wearethegunlobby

Please spread the word among voters

Nessa CHILDERS
Deirdre CLUNE
Luke Ming FLANAGAN
Brian HAYES
Seán KELLY
Mairead McGUINNESS

Not a fan, but Luke Ming supported us during the gun ban - I spoke/emailed his secretary several times and got unequivocal support for us from Ming - the EU pulled the rug from under the MEP's and I think he was backed into a corner.

The real opposition to shooters came from EU Parliament vice chair Mairead McGuinness, who initially seemed supportive, but did a complete volte face AFTER she spoke with the then-MoJ and now MEP candidate FRANCES FITZGERALD.

Cass wrote: »

What do you mean when you say caliber limit.

Rimfires are, well, rimfires. Any cartridge that used rimfire ammunition (22lr, 17hmr, 22magnum, etc, etc.). If it's semi auto or bolt action of any rimfire caliber then it can only have ten round mags as an unrestricted firearm and anything more would require a restricted license.

I meant the limit that seems to be for centrefire of 7.62mm/.308 before it's considered restricted. The likes of .44 Henry are well over that but are rimfires, I was wondering if they were in any way under a calibre restriction of their own.

Funnily enough semi auto centrefires automatically restricted regardless of mag size, but bolt action centre fires have no mag limit. Not sure if it's an oversight when drafting the SI, but you could have a bolt action centrefire rifle with a 30 round mag. Would look stupid but it's legal.

Straight pull AR lookalikes are considered Assault rifles because they look like assault rifles, but 'trench mag' bolt actions would fit the bill.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

They might be "considerd":rolleyes: "assault rifles":rolleyes: But it would be a laugh for them to try and explain it in a court.They are bolt action rifles no matter how you look at it,and it would mean rifles like the Blaser tactical,etc are then considerd "assault rifles" if they were tarted up with tactical bits.Plus they would be the first bolt action rifles in history to have a select fire function.

You don't get it Grizzly, if it looks like the thing it is the thing, says it right there in the law

“assault rifles” means—

(a) rifles capable of functioning as semi-automatic firearms and as automatic firearms,

(b) firearms that resemble such rifles;

Cass wrote: »

Ah. Gotcha.

There are no "restrictions" as such, but as you pointed out the likes of a Henry 0.44 is a rimfire but is also rimfire. This is for two reasons. It's a handgun cartridge and the bullet is over 7.62/.308.

Remember that restricted and unrestricted work on bullet size/diameter and not chambering. It's the reason why .308, 30-06, 300WM are all unrestricted as are .303 Enfield. However some of the older Enfields (and someone with more knowledge than me can confirm this) are actually over .308 in diameter and lads have had trouble licensing them as unrestricted because they technically are 0.309 or even 0.310, hence restricted.

Cass, ALL .303 British rifles are at LEAST .311" due to the way of measuring the bore to the grooves rather than the lands. Many .303 British Lee-Enfield rifles - the SMLEs of WW1 fame - shoot best with bullets up to .313 or even, in the older models, as oversize as .315". For those who are able to reload, all these diameter bullets are available.

There isn't a single Enfield rifle rifle [not a Lee-Enfield, note] that isn't a .577cal muzzleloader, shooting the Minié bullet.

However, all of the problems you mention about shooters having problems getting a license are down to wilful obstruction by jobs-worths. The .303 British is its name, always was, and always will be. Putting barriers in the way of people who have already jumped through the necessary hoops of documentation, justification and humiliation is typical of the PTB in BOTH our countries.

Cass wrote: »

I believe, and correct me if i'm wrong kowloon, but the point is more about the legislation and this cartridge while outdated/obsolete, seems to break the mold in that it's both restricted and a rimfire.

Irish law Tac, if you figure it out make sure and let me know.

Ah, gotcha. There are gazillions of others, too, some of them, like the .56cal Spencer, looking like baby artillery shells. All HIGHLY collectible.

We agree, though on the basic fact that the rest of world continues to call the cartridge, and the rifle that shoots it, as a .303 calibre. Calling it anything else DOES happen, with ammunition made in the Republic of South Africa, where is it known by its metric calibre of 7.7x 56R.

Sadly we continue to be plagued by 'interpreters' of historically-accepted terminology, rather than people who just accept it for what it is, and get on with it.

The HBSA is nothing like that, from the folks I know who are in it. Just ordinary Joes like you and me with a deep and abiding interest in mostly military breechloaders from their inception in the middle 1800's up to as late as allowed here in UK. Dunno about the tweed-smoking or patched pipe wearing - nobody I know does any of that. My pal Pete F always has something along to interest us - he is one their seriously good shots, forever winning the sniping match with one or other of his historical sniping rifles. I've recently introduced him to Swiss rifles - I have three - and he's taken to them like a duck to water.

The main difference between the HBSA and any organisation in the RoI that would like to emulate it is that in UK there is no such animal as a 'restricted' calibre. So my .577 Sniders are good to go, and a .600" Jacobs is also good, if you have one.... The famous Mauser rifles used in the Easter Rising are very popular, too, and of course, we can reload for the 99% of calibres that are no longer made, or have not been made since Queen Victoria was a blushing bride.

Most members of the HBSA have multiple entries on their FAC - remember that it is the person who is licensed here, not the individual gun. It is not uncommon to have thirty or forty suitable rifles to shoot in the numerous competitions held by the association.

As for firing full-auto firearms, remember that the HBSA, and a comparatively large number of other organisation, have a valid 'in' to the military and to the many Section 7 [Prohibited Weapons] dealers in the UK. They have demo days, just like any other salesman, and the HBSA get an invite.

Get a look at this from the front page of the HBSA - it will give you an idea of what it's all about, as well as a breakdown of who does what in UK with regard to the legal use of firearms -

About the HBSA

The fundamental aim of the HBSA is to encourage the preservation of historical breech loading firearms and ammunition and to foster the study of all aspects of the subject, from the aesthetics of sporting guns and the engraver’s art, to the functional aspects of firearms used by the soldier, target shooter and the sporting shooter. The HBSA considers that the private collection and use of historical arms and ammunition is essential to facilitate historical research, and to achieve preservation of these heritage artefacts for future generations.

The HBSA was founded in 1973.

The founding group of academics, students of arms and collectors were concerned with the threat to the preservation of privately owned historical firearms, which represent an irreplaceable part of our social, industrial, military and sporting heritage. We are a national organisation with branches and membership groups that provide a regional presence in Wales, Northern England, and the South West. The HBSA is the primary body for collecting, researching, preserving, shooting, and all aspects of historical breech loading small arms within the United Kingdom.

As well as advising on care and conservation, and acting as a forum for the exchange of information, the HBSA pursues the study of historical smallarms through a combination of lectures, research reports and shooting activity. Monthly lectures are held in London and other venues. We have close relationships with the Imperial War Museum in London and the Royal Armouries, where we are acknowledged as a specialist group. We are also given access to arms and documents held in certain reserve collections.

We liaise with Home Office, Police, NRA, other shooting/collecting organisations in UK and abroad and are members of British Shooting Sports Council (BSSC). We maintain close links with other European collecting organisations through the Federation of European Societies of Arms Collectors (FESAC).

Research papers, extracts from historical documents and articles written by HBSA members and others are published in our annual Journal. The proceedings of our meetings and other activities are published in a quarterly newsletter Report.


British Shooting in Figures
Shooters spend £2.5 billion each year on goods and services
Shooting supports the equivalent of 74,000 full time jobs
Shooting is worth £2 billion to the UK economy (GVA)
Shooting is involved in the management of two-thirds of the rural land area
There are 4 million (est) airgun owners – of which 1.6 m shoot live quarry
600,000 people in the UK shoot live quarry, clay pigeons or targets
Shoot providers spend nearly £250 million a year on conservation
Shooters spend 3.9 million work days on conservation – that’s the equivalent of 16,000 full-time jobs
Two million hectares are actively managed for conservation as a result of shooting
Source: BSSC