Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

BattleCorp

Cass wrote: »

Say what you will about our national police force but they are not so incompetent as t label someone as an isis terror suspect without having intelligence tot he same. Also they rely on other countries and security reports to determine such things.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Driving an ambulance, wasn't it???.... Hmmm, did it have the exhaust tailpipe plumbed into the sealed rear cab? :mad:
Wouldn't put it past those medieval barbarians.

I'm not defending the ISIS lads at all. I thought my comment about fcuking them in a barrel and burning them showed that. By all means, don't let them back here. We are all far safer if they aren't let back.

I'm just saying that it's very hard to PROVE that they were involved in terrorism and you'd need proof before you can remove citizenship. Proof that in all likelihood will be tested in court. And that's a high standard. I am not so sure that intelligence reports would be considered 100% proof. Any intelligence gathered is not likely to be objective and impartial because it would be gathered by those fighting against ISIS.

I agree that intelligence can be provided but look at it from a court's prospective, how accurate is the intelligence? Is it beyond a reasonable doubt?

Cass

I understand you're not defending them, never entered my mind.

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm just saying that it's very hard to PROVE that they were involved in terrorism and you'd need proof before you can remove citizenship.

Talk to him, and if he spouts the same sh*t as the teenager who ran off did then it's clear they don't repent, they were involved and if allowed home they would bring that fundamentalism home with them where it will breed like a cancer.

However all this can be done while they are where they are, not here.

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

I

I'm just saying that it's very hard to PROVE that they were involved in terrorism and you'd need proof before you can remove citizenship. Proof that in all likelihood will be tested in court. And that's a high standard. I am not so sure that intelligence reports would be considered 100% proof. Any intelligence gathered is not likely to be objective and impartial because it would be gathered by those fighting against ISIS.
I agree that intelligence can be provided but look at it from a court's prospective, how accurate is the intelligence? Is it beyond a reasonable doubt?

If the methodology was good enough for the Nurenberg war crimes tribunal and for the Hauge war crimes tribunal...It should be good enough for an Irish court.

Nekarsulm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If the methodology was good enough for the Nurenberg war crimes tribunal and for the Hauge war crimes tribunal...It should be good enough for an Irish court.

All he has to do is claim he was helping Hamas in a Palestinian camp, and half of the lefties in this country will be crowd-funding for a house for him.....
Cause then he'd be a "freedom fighter" as opposed to the terrorist he really is ....

Grizzly 45

Be a bit tricky mind him claiming that as a Sunni Muslim, and working for the Palestinians, who are mostly Shia. If you think Catholic/Protestant animosity is bad....
Those two sections have been the main cause of mass deaths out in the Middle East of Muslims.And have been at it ever since Mohammed was told off by his 9year old wife, for being home late for dinner,and his kebabs were burnt!

In short both sides hate each other's guts with a passion and have been happy to slaughter each other and the odd Christian village down there as well. So a heretic like him working in Gaza, would be as likely as whatever.

Uinseann_16

Court poor box pays for garda gym equipment
Something tells me this wont be solved any time soon:rolleyes: in fact i cant remember the last time i saw a guard who looks like they would make regular use of such equipment..... thats the real mystery


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/internal-review-after-16k-from-court-poor-box-used-to-buy-gym-equipment-for-garda-station-37872632.html

Grizzly 45

The walking dead deer:pac: . Also known as CJD in cattle.
Do any of you eat deer brains or spinal cords?

Also, a point that is interesting raised in relation to illegal deer harvesting here.
IF as the article claims that NZ venison is being "dumped" on the Irish market,at below cost that farmed Irish deer isn't viable... WHO are these game dealers selling wild Irish deer to,and what is the markup and why is non-EU meat being sold, without any traceability.Isn't this why we have to go off and do HCAP and such to assure quality from field to fork???

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ireland-on-alert-for-zombie-disease-that-attacks-deers-brains-37872637.html

Cass

Since when?





I don't drink myself so honestly couldn't give a crap, but this is on the official Garda page. Nothing in all the Acts prohibits drinking in public. The only restrictions are drinking cans, etc. within 100 mtrs of where it's bought and being so drunk as to be a danger to yourself or others.

I know each county council can change certain things, as long as it does not change the primary act, but the small print in the corner seems to suggest Dublin council may have done this, but it's not a nationwide thing.

This seems to be a completely stupid, easily fact checked, incorrect statement. Am i wrong?

Grizzly 45

"Civilians aren't trained or responsible enough to use high capacity military style centre fire handguns or military-style assault rifles"

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/french-policewoman-shot-dead-by-fellow-cop-in-gun-game-2006091

Uinseann_16

"was fooling around with his service weapon when it went off"
That line right there is the biggest load of BS thats used to explain a negligent or accidental discharge , guns dont go off you set it off and should be charged with the murder or at least manslaughter caused as a result of your negligence

Grizzly 45

Scary that a Communist totalitarian dictatorship has less restrictive gun laws than a western progressive EU country like Ireland.

https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2019/03/chinese-penalties-for-illegal-ownership.html?fbclid=IwAR0T0ZkDvZjDl80hNGVVnua2yH2RV-6SXoGu75QqhHNp19DM8BUjEGtXZDU

BattleCorp

Too lazy to post a link but it looks like NZ's law abiding gun owners are about to get fcuked up the ass.

Witcher

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Scary that a Communist totalitarian dictatorship has less restrictive gun laws than a western progressive EU country like Ireland.

https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2019/03/chinese-penalties-for-illegal-ownership.html?fbclid=IwAR0T0ZkDvZjDl80hNGVVnua2yH2RV-6SXoGu75QqhHNp19DM8BUjEGtXZDU

Hardly,

In 1996, the law was changed to make it very difficult for almost anyone to legally own a gun. Common air rifles, which had not been considered guns, were defined as guns by a change in the law.

The only thing that's different is they don't come down hard on the possession of ammunition

The gun laws in China are extremely restrictive. On the other hand, enforcement of the law against people with small amounts of ammunition, and even guns, appears to be closer to American enforcement for traffic tickets than American misdemeanors or felonies.

We have our own problems but hyperbole that we're worse than China gets us nowhere. They've a massive black market in firearms there according to the article..I don't think expanding our own black market is something we should aspire to.

Grizzly 45

The only thing that's different is they don't come down hard on the possession of ammunitio

n

Possesing one SINGLE airgun pellet,a lump of lead with no explosive power without a liscense here could nail you for five!! Go see what result you will get here with 200 rounds of Military style ammo, or go make up a slam fire shotgun and go for a walk past the cop shop.and see what sentence you get or if you can pay off Garda Muldoon to drop the charge.

Ergo,the Chinese dont seem to consider their black market of firearms or possession of illegal stuff to be much more than what we consider a parking or speeding ticket category of crime.

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

Too lazy to post a link but it looks like NZ's law abiding gun owners are about to get fcuked up the ass.

I wonder has there been a sudden unexpected boost in the sale of plastic sewer pipe lengths and end caps in NZ's hardware depots, and has the NZ SAR noted a sudden increase in boating accidents involving gun owners??:D:D

It does seem to have had unexpected consequences tho.:D
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8654322/new-zealanders-panic-buying-guns-pm-vowed-toughen-law/
Who says Govts dont surrender to terrorists?NZ now holds the record for acquiescing the fastest to a terrorist demand.As this ghoul stated quite clearly in his manifesto he chose these type of weapons to create a gun ban in NZ and eventually the US. And what has the NZ gone and done or is doing??

Cass

Not sure if anyone else heard the SKY report on NZ's gun laws. They essentially made it out to be a firearms Utopia that is freer than the states.

Witcher

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

n

Possesing one SINGLE airgun pellet,a lump of lead with no explosive power without a liscense here could nail you for five!! Go see what result you will get here with 200 rounds of Military style ammo, or go make up a slam fire shotgun and go for a walk past the cop shop.and see what sentence you get or if you can pay off Garda Muldoon to drop the charge.

Ergo,the Chinese dont seem to consider their black market of firearms or possession of illegal stuff to be much more than what we consider a parking or speeding ticket category of crime.

What's the issue with that?

That's the way it should be, should be ten years. Nobody should be in possession of any article they're not licenced for.

I see airsoft lads on FB all the time importing 'real steel' as they would call it rifle magazines and gutting them for airsoft internals, importing mil spec stocks etc. The ease with which that stuff gets in in what we should be concerned with, not how the sentence for possessing unlicenced ammuntion is unfair.

I've had wooden stocks stopped on me but there's lads importing mil spec AR15 stocks and handguards not a bother for an airsoft gun.

Nekarsulm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I wonder has there been a sudden unexpected boost in the sale of plastic sewer pipe lengths and end caps in NZ's hardware depots, and has the NZ SAR noted a sudden increase in boating accidents involving gun owners??:D:D

It does seem to have had unexpected consequences tho.:D
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8654322/new-zealanders-panic-buying-guns-pm-vowed-toughen-law/
Who says Govts dont surrender to terrorists?NZ now holds the record for acquiescing the fastest to a terrorist demand.As this ghoul stated quite clearly in his manifesto he chose these type of weapons to create a gun ban in NZ and eventually the US. And what has the NZ gone and done or is doing??

NZ has a history of attempts to change their gun laws, to little to no effect.
Like Australia a few years ago, they may try for a quick law change before the various gun organisations get organised.

Uinseann_16

Witcher wrote: »

What's the issue with that?

That's the way it should be, should be ten years. Nobody should be in possession of any article they're not licenced for.

I see airsoft lads on FB all the time importing 'real steel' as they would call it rifle magazines and gutting them for airsoft internals, importing mil spec stocks etc. The ease with which that stuff gets in in what we should be concerned with, not how the sentence for possessing unlicenced ammuntion is unfair.

I've had wooden stocks stopped on me but there's lads importing mil spec AR15 stocks and handguards not a bother for an airsoft gun.

Theres nothing illegal about processing a part thats interchangeable between a AR-15 and a airsoft gun hell even a m16 part as when attached to a airsoft gun it, its attached to a "firearm" which doesnt require a licence, ofc it must have a muzzle energy of less than one joule

Witcher

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Theres nothing illegal about processing a part thats interchangeable between a AR-15 and a airsoft gun hell even a m16 part as when attached to a airsoft gun it, its attached to a "firearm" which doesnt require a licence, ofc it must have a muzzle energy of less than one joule

It's a component part of a firearm so you need a licence for it, that it's on an airsoft means nothing.

BattleCorp

Witcher wrote: »

It's a component part of a firearm so you need a licence for it, that it's on an airsoft means nothing.

I don't think it's quite as simple as that. Yes, if you had the component such as a Magpul stock on its own, then yes, it could be considered a firearm component.

That said, airsoft rifles (toys) are often so closely modelled on the real thing that parts such as stocks are interchangeable. I'm no airsoft expert but I'm sure that airsoft replicas can be bought with Magpul or other similar stocks that would fit an AR15. I fail to see how you could be prosecuted for having such a stock on your airsoft rifle.

If that was the case, surely all airsoft rifles would be illegal without a full licence?

Uinseann_16

Witcher wrote: »

It's a component part of a firearm so you need a licence for it, that it's on an airsoft means nothing.

Its also a component of a non-firearm...... This may be a grey area actually so by owning a airsoft M4 for example you have a rail,stock pistol grip and takedown pins etc.. which are interchangeable with a areal AR-15,M16 etc.. does that mean your in possession of unlicensed firearms parts?
The magazine is more clear cut imo thats definitely a part which you need a licence for as their not directly interchangeable

In theory if you were to build a simunition type bolt carrier and barrel for a m16/ar-15 but somehow found a way to keep whatever type of projectile you fired below 1 joule of energy you have a item which is not classed as a firearm yet contains nearly all the parts you need...?A firearm is defined as: “an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such muzzle energy” thus any firearms part attached to such a device wouldnt be a firearm part?

Grizzly 45

What's the issue with that?

It invalidates your point for a start. That a dictatorship is more lenient than a so-called democracy on possession of illegal ammo.

That's the way it should be, should be ten years. Nobody should be in possession of any article they're not licenced for.

Glad you like paying taxes for keeping people locked up for those time lengths and the new jails we will have to build for all these future arch criminals.As 10 years seems to become all the rage in sentencing these days...

Do you know that in most Western countries in Europe something like that IE a 1st-time offence is a "Don't do it again" warning, and even 2nd or 3rd offence its a fine or non-custodial sentence?? Ireland and the UK have the hardest penalties for illegal possession of unlicensed firearms and ammo. Even for stuff you found innocently.IE a box of bullets from great granddads 303 last seen in 1920 at the back of a closet.A possible custodial sentence straight off.So we are already stricter than the PRC.

I see airsoft lads on FB all the time importing 'real steel' as they would call it rifle magazines and gutting them for airsoft internals, importing mil-spec stocks etc.

A link, please???
They must be some genuises is all I can say,or very disappointed when they do get any stuff. As airsoft tolerances are deliberately made to be utterly out of spec with real firearms and have been for a long while.
BTW I'd avoid "mil spec " anything,its rubbish made by the lowest govt bidder to supply a govt contract. Ask any soldier how good Milspec equipment is.

The ease with which that stuff gets in what we should be concerned with, not how the sentence for possessing unlicensed ammunition is unfair.

Yeah on drug shipments, genuine full auto stuff falling into the hands of fanatics, criminals terrorists and whatnot.Not worried about a bunch of people playing Tacticool operator out in their local forest, with some mangled bit a mag hanging on their plastic and pot metal toy.

I've had wooden stocks stopped on me but there are lads importing mil-spec AR15 stocks and handguards not a bother for an airsoft gun

.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure they are REAL firearms parts ?? Just because it has "Mag Tech" written on it, for example, does in NO WAY make it a compatible part for a live firearm! The copy cat industry in the Far East is unbelievable these days.I had a long debate with an Italian firearms journalist about using a Kopis clamshell stock for my Glock 9mm as a carbine,as the Kopis for airsoft and the real are identical to the naked eye.

It's the material that s different. The live firearm Kopis clamshell is a reinforced polymer, while the airsoft stuff is just reinforced plastic.but you couldnt tell the difference It's an easy mistake to make, and I have l looked at once changing an AR handguard for a tactical one from an airsoft store. The specs were out just enough to prevent it fitting a real AR.
And let's not mention the "poor pony" aka Aero industries upper and lower receiver kits that were here for sale for a while. Utter pot metal junk that you couldn't even torque on a barrel nut.:D:D
So that might explain why these "firearms parts" are getting thru easier than your genuine Woodstock?:)

Grizzly 45

Cass wrote: »

Not sure if anyone else heard the SKY report on NZ's gun laws. They essentially made it out to be a firearms Utopia that is freer than the states.

That's why I stopped watching MSM and TV years ago.Only thing that NZ "might " have freer than the US is ownership of full auto stuff...But you have to keep it deacted at home, with the vital components kept at a range or police station.Also,its a major PITH to acquire and keep there apparently too.

Grizzly 45

The EU gun ban caught another kick in the teeth from the Finns.They were talking about serious gun bans for about four years before deciding on "commonsense gun laws"

think we have to classify this as a serious win:

Reservists:
This is the part that really takes the cake. Up until now, all reservists have applied firearms permits as “sportshooters”. After 4 years of lobbying, we finally hit a major home run. We have a completely new valid reason to apply for gun permit and it is national defense. This applies to everyone who could theoretically be drafted during time war (everyone who has been in the army, so pretty much all males). This “reason” was banned by the Russians in 1945, but now after a good active cooperation with all reserve organizations we managed to associate AR-15 from “mass murder tools” to “reserve rifles” by running multi-year campaign in medias. As a result it would have been political suicide for any politician to try to ban them. Even the green party voted in favor of assault weapons for everyone… Beat that.

In addition to that, there will be official tax payer funded program to improve shooting skills of reservists, which is quite extensive. You have pistol training, long range work, carbine shooting. Hell, in the advanced curriculum of the program they teach door breaching with shotguns in combat situations. A very useful skill for a citizen to have. There is free training, you can bring your own gun, or borrow one if you don’t own one yet. Lets see how this program takes off. Did I mention tax payer funded?

Grand Fathering:
Implemented. People who have bought semiautomatics after 12.6.2017 will have to reapply for permits (free of charge) and those who have valid reason will get A-permits. (Collector, sportshooter, reservists etc).
Hunters:
Magazine restrictions for hunters for new permits. They took the hit.

Sportshooters:
Psychological tests were abolished recently. Short firearm requires 24 months of documented sportshooting with club owned firearm and club membership. This has not changed since 2011.
Long firearm requires now club membership and 12 months. Sport shooting exception was fully implemented so normal magazines allowed.

Community owned firearms:
These were supposed to be banned but we fought this off and won. There is now a “training exception” which allows clubs to buy guns with normal capacity magazines (class A firearms that is) and use them to train new shooters. This is valuable and significant win, because now we have a way of bringing new shooters into sport that requires certain “trial period” like 12 months for rifles.

Collectors:
Finnish proposal included a ban for shooting all guns part of collections. We fought this hard. We won. Its remains legal for collectors to shoot their full auto weapons just like before. Because you know, its “for science”. No markings for historically significant firearms either.

Short Rifles:
Minimum length of rifle was 84 cm in Finland. Now, we stated that it should aligned with EU. As result short AR-15 just became legal with telescoping stocks. They were restricted before.

Magazines:
You permit will be canceled if you are found in possession of normal capacity magazine without permit in case they can prove that you did it on purpose.

Lengths of permits:
The unrestricted permits are still possible and a permit should not be fixed time, unless there is a really good reason to do so. Even though the permit length is not limited, one has to proof that you still need the gun every 5 years or so, by essentially being part of a club for example and occasionally shooting stuff.

BattleCorp

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2019/0055/latest/whole.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation%40deemedreg_arms+order_resel_25_a&p=1#LMS173649

Looking at the wording of this, it looks like pretty much all centrefire semi-autos are gone, not just the military looking ones.

Any centrefire rifle capable of holding a mag greater than 5 rounds. That's pretty much nearly all of them.

tac foley

Here in UK, one nut-job with a history of torturing cats and walking around muttering slaughtered his way around Hungerford. We lost ALL our semi-auto centrefire rifles and carbines because of the inadequacies of the police system.

In NZ, a FOREIGNER gets to legally own guns that he then uses to make a point, and get guns banned - his words. HE has won the day, not matter what happens to him now, and NZ has lost.

Grizzly 45

Gesture politics and hasty legislation pulled out of a drawer that has been lying there for the last five years when the NZ police recommended just such a ban...:rolleyes:
Complacent, or even remotely prepared gun lobby for such an event[.Reminds me of another island group up in Europe in the Atlantic.]

Tarrant must be laughing himself silly in his jail cell,as they are doing EXACTLY what he set out to do in his manifesto and aquised to his plan of an NZ gun ban...Who said Govts never surrender to terrorism??:mad::mad:

Grizzly 45

Actually looking at that badly worded legislation[sofar] The AR could survive this.courtsey of gun banning efforts of CALIFORNIA. There are a whole bunch of speed loading devices for CA that deal specifically with speed loading permanently pinned in place mags.
OR
I see the UK MARS/lever release designs becoming very popular there.

yubabill

Just trying to think outside the box, here, so please don't think I like gun bans.

This Tarrant guy is clearly a sociopath. He committed an atrocity with firearms he obtained legally.

Having said that, NZ is a largely rural country with c.4m people in an area roughly the size of the UK and firearms are a part of life there for lots and lots of people.

The question has to be asked whether this rushed gun ban is proportionate and fair.