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The Hazards of Belief

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Comments

  • #9482
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    recedite wrote: »
    Not at all, the USA has many religions and is a multi-racial, though not multi-cultural, society.

    For the avoidance of doubt: a denial from you doesn't come close to "compelling evidence to the contrary".


  • #9483
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    smacl wrote: »
    Referring to somebody in the third person by their country of origin is pretty dumb too, not to mention unpleasant.
    deflect deflect deflect ...

    Given his fellow Muslims call this rather dodgy imam as "the fake Sheikh" I wouldn't say that advice will get much attention outside of his far right fan-boys.

    Yeah, I think an Imam that grew up in Iran would know more of the hazards of radical Islam than yourself!
    edit - Have you read his backstory ? seen what he has been through?
    He used to be pretty radical himself, he knows the real dangers and is trying to reform the religion from the inside - very much like Maajid Nawaz, he gets more hate from the Islamists than from the far right.


  • #9484
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,793 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    deflect deflect deflect ...





    "deflect" from what?


  • #9485
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    No surprise that most on here are getting behind the Islamists.

    Jesus Christ, why did I ****ing come back!!!


  • #9486
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,793 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    No surprise that most on here are getting behind the Islamists.

    Jesus Christ, why did I ****ing come back!!!


    What are you on about? Links and a cohesive argument please.


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  • #9487
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Odhinn wrote: »
    What are you on about? Links and a cohesive argument please.

    You need links for the previous pages of this thread ??? :confused:


  • #9488
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,793 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    You need links for the previous pages of this thread ??? :confused:


    No, I need to see a cohesive argument on your part.


  • #9489
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Odhinn wrote: »
    No, I need to see a cohesive argument on your part.

    Most people here are defending Ilhan Omar.
    She dismissed 9/11.
    She has spoken of Al Qaeda :


    I know we've allready been down here, and I retracted some of what I said, but I can't ignore this.
    If you don't think there is anything at least mildly wrong with the above video, then fair enough - each to their own.

    I can't nor don't want to convince you.
    But for me , it's enough to not trust her.

    I trust this guy
    https://twitter.com/Imamofpeace/status/1117395973137936384?s=20
    His experiences count for a lot more than mine or yours - it's safe to say he knows what he's talking about.


    But he's far right ... he's far right ...

    https://twitter.com/Imamofpeace/status/1106450375517851648?s=20

    yeah ... sure he is.


  • #9490
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,793 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    Most people here are defending Ilhan Omar.
    She dismissed 9/11.
    She has spoken of Al Qaeda :
    (............).


    So you're having a spasm because people don't rgree with your cherry picked "quotes"


  • #9491
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    If you don't think there is anything at least mildly wrong with the above video, then fair enough - each to their own.

    I don't see anything wrong with the video. Could you enlighten us perhaps on what, specifically is wrong here?

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  • #9492
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    smacl wrote: »
    I don't see anything wrong with the video. Could you enlighten us perhaps on what, specifically is wrong here?

    No, if you can't see what's wrong here, there is nothing more I can say.

    This forum , really hilarious - "atheists" that **** all over christianity, but wet themselves over Islam.


  • #9493
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    Yeah, I think an Imam that grew up in Iran would know more of the hazards of radical Islam than yourself!
    edit - Have you read his backstory ? seen what he has been through?
    He used to be pretty radical himself, he knows the real dangers and is trying to reform the religion from the inside - very much like Maajid Nawaz, he gets more hate from the Islamists than from the far right.

    Of course he gets more hate from the Islamists that the far right, he's a puppet of the far right. Also, he's not even an Imam, from the previously linked article;
    Tawhidi is not recognised as an Imam or Sheikh by either the Australian National Imams Council or its South Australian equivalent, nor is he affiliated with any Australian mosque or prayer centre. The only religious instruction he offers is a self-described "university standard" Islamic Studies class delivered from a rented classroom at the University of South Australia.

    As for the article this is drawn from, it was written by Chloe Patton who has significant experience in this area (doctorate, research fellow, and numerous citations in peer reviewed work )
    I trust this guy
    His experiences count for a lot more than mine or yours - it's safe to say he knows what he's talking about.

    Why exactly do you trust this guy, other than his stance happens to be a good fit for your own worldview? Have you looked at him with a critical eye, or is this just blind faith? From where I'm sitting the allegations that this guy is a fake seem to stand up to scrutiny.

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  • #9494
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    No, if you can't see what's wrong here, there is nothing more I can say.

    This forum , really hilarious - "atheists" that **** all over christianity, but wet themselves over Islam.

    I can't, please enlighten us. Second time of asking, what specifically is wrong with the video?

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  • #9495
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    Most people here are defending Ilhan Omar.
    She dismissed 9/11.
    She has spoken of Al Qaeda :

    Are you just bothered by her simply saying the phrase "Al Qaeda" without the reverence of the lecturer she references?

    Also, did you watch the video, because she doesn't dismiss 9/11 anywhere in it. Both people in the video discuss about how when a Muslim does something violent, the discussion tends to be how Islam is violent, however when a white person does something violent, the discussion is about mental issues. This is a point raised on this and other forums, muslim mass murderer = terrorist, white mass murdered = lone gun maniac, and it's a valid point to make and question.


  • #9496
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,214 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Not sure if correct forum, but anyone find it slightly ironic that Parisians gathered last night to say prayers after the burning down of Notre Dame cathedral?

    Firstly, if God existed why did he let one of his churches, which took man 200 years to build, burn down?

    What exactly are these prayers for? What is their aim?
    I suspect I'm not alone in finding out slightly off putting that 36 hours later, there's already nearly one billion Euro pledged to restore a church.


  • #9497
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    smacl wrote: »
    I can't, please enlighten us. Second time of asking, what specifically is wrong with the video?

    She is speaking about it with awe, laughing at the "Terrorism class" she took, clearly in awe of the whole fight against the west.
    She hates the west and is an advocate of Sharia law.

    IF you can't see how this isn't compatible with liberal western values then I can't say anything more.

    If someone asked me why raping kids is wrong, i wouldn't bother explaining either ...


  • #9498
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    I suspect I'm not alone in finding out slightly off putting that 36 hours later, there's already nearly one billion Euro pledged to restore a church.

    Yeah God forbid!!!!!

    *pun intended.

    How dare they restore a historic building ~900 years old.
    Its not just religion you know, it's art, history and architecture.


  • #9499
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    She is speaking about it with awe, laughing at the "Terrorism class" she took, clearly in awe of the whole fight against the west.

    Not her awe though, she is laughing at the apparent awe of her lecturer. It hardly deserves the faux outrage you seem to be struggling to get out.
    She hates the west and is an advocate of Sharia law.

    Do you have any proof whatsoever of this? She's a US senator, which kind of suggests being very much part of the west.
    IF you can't see how this isn't compatible with liberal western values then I can't say anything more.

    You've provided nothing to support any of this though. You're having a rant at the black lady in the scarf because she's a Muslim and you clearly don't like Muslims, but you have failed entirely in finding anything to suggest there's any issue with her. I don't doubt you've nothing more to say because I don't think you had anything much to say in the first instance.
    If someone asked me why raping kids is wrong, i wouldn't bother explaining either ...

    Haven't seem a non-sequitur that big in a while. How about if someone was acting the bigot, would you need to explain that?

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  • #9500
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    She is speaking about it with awe, laughing at the "Terrorism class" she took, clearly in awe of the whole fight against the west.
    That's all in your head. You have completely bought into the narrative that the person who edited that video wants you to believe. This "awe" you claim to see, doesn't exist.

    Her point is very clear in what they're discussing; in a terrorism class the lecturer's body language very clearly revealed his personal feelings on the topic.

    Any honest terrorism class would discuss terrorism from Muslims, non-Muslim and state actors alike. But in this case, the lecturer was displaying a very clear discomfort with Islamic terrorism specifically, not with any other kinds.

    Naturally then the discussion goes on to point out the obvious - that domestic (white) terrorism kills way more people in the USA, yet Islamic terrorism is the thing they lose their sh1t over.

    This is free speech. This is the kind of honest discourse that anti-Muslim people would love to squash so that they can continue pretend that there's a Muslim horde battering on the gates rather than discuss the home-grown barbarians already living and murdering inside the city walls.


  • #9501
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,214 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    someone who is in favour of sharia law managed to get elected as a US senator?
    the US is much more inclusive than i'd suspected.


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  • #9502
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    someone who is in favour of sharia law managed to get elected as a US senator?
    the US is much more inclusive than i'd suspected.
    Sure wasn't the last President a Muslim lad from Kenya?


  • #9503
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    smacl wrote: »
    Not her awe though, she is laughing at the apparent awe of her lecturer. It hardly deserves the faux outrage you seem to be struggling to get out.



    Do you have any proof whatsoever of this? She's a US senator, which kind of suggests being very much part of the west.



    You've provided nothing to support any of this though. You're having a rant at the black lady in the scarf because she's a Muslim and you clearly don't like Muslims, but you have failed entirely in finding anything to suggest there's any issue with her. I don't doubt you've nothing more to say because I don't think you had anything much to say in the first instance.



    Haven't seem a non-sequitur that big in a while. How about if someone was acting the bigot, would you need to explain that?

    Yes it's an exaggerated analogy.
    Ah heyor!! I'm no bigot!


    edit - and again, you are bringing race into it ... why mention "Black lady in a scarf" ???


  • #9504
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    seamus wrote: »
    Sure wasn't the last President a Muslim lad from Kenya?

    Would it surprise you I was a great fan of Obama and was delighted he won in 08 and 12.
    Now who is drawing on pre conceived narratives.






    just waiting for the "im not a racist, some of my best friends are black" .....


  • #9505
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    Yes it's an exaggerated analogy.
    Ah heyor!! I'm no bigot!

    Repeatedly attacking Ilhan Omar, with unsupported asertions that 'She hates the west and is an advocate of Sharia law', strongly to me suggest a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.
    edit - and again, you are bringing race into it ... why mention "Black lady in a scarf" ???

    I didn't bring race into it, it was already there and started with this post (that you liked).
    recedite wrote: »
    The Somali said something stupid.

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  • #9506
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    seamus wrote: »
    Sure wasn't the last President a Muslim lad from Kenya?
    You're probably thinking of the President's dad; Baraka Obama (baraka is the Arabic word for a "blessing")


  • #9507
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    The Obamas of course are Luo, and the Luo tribe take a very dim view of the neighbouring Somalis, whom they regard as vagrants and bandits.


  • #9508
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,793 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    recedite wrote: »
    The Obamas of course are Luo, and the Luo tribe take a very dim view of the neighbouring Somalis, whom they regard as vagrants and bandits.


    I presume this is the sneer to accompany your earlier bigoted remarks.


  • #9509
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    recedite wrote: »
    You're probably thinking of the President's dad; Baraka Obama (baraka is the Arabic word for a "blessing")
    Holy sh1t, did you actually go there?

    Seriously, might be time to take a step back recedite. You're dangerously close to turning into a Gemmaroid.


  • #9510
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,018 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    I suspect I'm not alone in finding out slightly off putting that 36 hours later, there's already nearly one billion Euro pledged to restore a church.

    I wouldn't be too sure about that!


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  • #9511
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    smacl wrote: »
    Repeatedly attacking Ilhan Omar, with unsupported asertions that 'She hates the west and is an advocate of Sharia law', strongly to me suggest a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.



    I didn't bring race into it, it was already there and started with this post (that you liked).

    Come on! , referring to her as a Somali - it is her original country, nothing racist here, I know lots of Irish Americans that are still referred to as "The Irishman" amongst their american local friends.
    They love it, as they are still Irish too - I'm sure Mrs Omar is still proud of her Somali heritage.

    Odhinn wrote: »
    I presume this is the sneer to accompany your earlier bigoted remarks.
    That's quite a stretch ^^


    Anyway, you will all find this hard to believe, but I actually hope you guys are right!!
    Really, if I knew for sure she wanted to embrace western american values and keep the system secular - great!

    unfortunately I am not an optimist and don't believe this is the case.


This discussion has been closed.
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