The Hazards of Belief

Hector Savage

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/0328/1039077-brunei-gay/

Terrible.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47769964

top Story on BBC

Still no thanks for the original post - very telling.

recedite

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47769964

top Story on BBC

Lesbian sex carries a different penalty of 40 strokes of the cane and/or a maximum of 10 years in jail

Terrible sexism there.

nozzferrahhtoo

"Lesbian sex carries a different penalty of 40 strokes of the cane"

Penalty? For some of the Lesbians I know, that is foreplay!

Odhinn

Hector Savage wrote: »

...............................lery telling.)

You wouldn't happen to have sources for the claims you made in this post by any chance?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109793737&postcount=9420

Hector Savage

Odhinn wrote: »

You wouldn't happen to have sources for the claims you made in this post by any chance?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109793737&postcount=9420

I heard it, I'm not gonna dig it up, I believe it , you don't have to.
She is dodgy - she supports terror, she hates the west, I don't have to provide sources for obvious facts.

Again, you can believe what you want, at the end of the day we all believe what WE WANT to.

ohnonotgmail

Hector Savage wrote: »

I heard it, I'm not gonna dig it up, I believe it , you don't have to.
She is dodgy - she supports terror, she hates the west, I don't have to provide sources for obvious facts.

Again, you can believe what you want, at the end of the day we all believe what WE WANT to.

Facts be damned then.

Peregrinus

Hector Savage wrote: »

I heard it, I'm not gonna dig it up, I believe it , you don't have to.
She is dodgy - she supports terror, she hates the west, I don't have to provide sources for obvious facts.

Again, you can believe what you want, at the end of the day we all believe what WE WANT to.

Shall we explore why you want to believe such things, Hector, or is that a matter between you and your therapist?

nozzferrahhtoo

Hector Savage wrote: »

very telling

Oh it very much is telling. Just not, I suspect, about what you want to think.

Hector Savage wrote: »

I heard it, I'm not gonna dig it up, I believe it , you don't have to. She is dodgy - she supports terror, she hates the west, I don't have to provide sources for obvious facts.

Well actually, on this forum you do. Depending on whether anyone wants to engage the new "back up your claims" rule from our Forum Rules. You have made a claim more than once, you have been asked to back it up more than once, you have refused. The moderator can very much now step in to demand clarification, if anyone cares to invoke it. I personally don't.

Hector Savage wrote: »

Again, you can believe what you want, at the end of the day we all believe what WE WANT to.

Speak for yourself. I have met people who claim to be able to CHOOSE what to believe in the manner you describe. I am not one of them. I am not aware of a single belief I hold because I "want" to hold it.

All the beliefs I hold I do so because the evidence presented to me compelled my belief. All the claims I do not believe, is due to no evidence being made available to me to believe it.

So perhaps you believe what you "want" to. But do not assume that means anyone else does. I am always curious though just how labile your credulity is. If I give you a patently empty box can you merely "want" to believe it is full of cash and then you believe it is?

What does that even feel like? Do you actually see the money that is not even there? Does it appear to you as a kind of half there half not there transparent image? Or is it more like a Capgrah syndrome thing where one part of your brain can actively see no money there at all but the belief part actively believes it to be there anyway?

I have certainly in the past seen you see posts and themes and narratives on this forum that no one else can see. Such as your ongoing narrative that Islam is somehow protected or given special privilege on this forum. Or your nonsense that Dara OBrian apologized for something he actually did not.

IT is fascinating to me to explore what it actually feels like to have a choice based belief system on your neck top computer. Describe it for me.

Hotblack Desiato

Hector Savage wrote: »

Again, you can believe what you want, at the end of the day we all believe what WE WANT to.

LOL. On this forum of all forums...!

Hector Savage

https://www.dailywire.com/news/45517/ilhan-omar-urges-release-jailed-muslim-brotherhood-ryan-saavedra
https://www.wnd.com/2019/03/did-ilhan-omar-marry-her-brother/
https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/newly-sworn-in-michigan-rep-catching-heat-for-capitol-hill-office-map-alteration

Oh wait too right wing, so just dismiss all that ... oh wait ... Buzzfeed
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emaoconnor/pelosi-calls-ilhan-omar-israel-tweets-anti-semitic-apology


Like I said ... DODGY
But again, the Islamist apologisers on here will be tripping over themselves to excuse it, quick lads quick , a priest molested some
kid 40 years ago in Donegal ... get a good story on that one!!!

Trent Houseboat

That Buzzfeed article says nothing about her marrying her brother, erasing Israel from a map or Hamas.

I've heard the conspiracy theory about her marrying her brother but it was just that Jacob Whol lad and some woman grifting money from the intellectually feeble to travel to Minnesota to investigate.

smacl

Hector Savage wrote: »

Scary scary that she is rabidly anti semitic, supports hamas, wiped Israel off her wall map in her office as soon as she was sworn in.
Has dodgy jihadi connections, got her brother in to the US illegally by pretending he was her husband.

Yeah scary.

So by rabidly anti-Semitic, you're referring to the oblique reference to Jewish money in the tweet "It's all about the Benjamins baby"? You've a rather strange notion of the adjective rabidly there, and I reckon the ones that are actually frothing at the mouth on this one are the far-right. Or perhaps you've something else to indicate that she is ''rabidly anti-semitic"? The rest of your points also seem similarly specious and your link about the map actually refers to someone else entirely (Rashida Tlaib). But hey, they're both Muslims so I guess that means they're basically the same right...? Rabid, huh? :rolleyes:

nozzferrahhtoo

Further what in the name of all that is biscuity does manipulating the US immigration system got to do with her beliefs? Or more specifically, a thread on the Hazards of Belief?

Many people have committed crimes related to the US immigration system. James Randi, a person probably liked and respected by some users of this very forum, helped his boyfriend commit identity theft for example in order to stay in the US. Clearly his religious beliefs had nothing to do with it either.

And am I imagining it was EX Muslim Ayaan Hirsi Ali not also embroiled in some similar dodgy dealings with immigration?

Odhinn

nozzferrahhtoo wrote:

And am I imagining it was EX Muslim Ayaan Hirsi Ali not also embroiled in some similar dodgy dealings with immigration?

Yep, had to quit the netherlands for the US. A lot of her story never added up in many regards.

Hector Savage wrote: »

I heard it, I'm not gonna dig it up, I believe it , you don't have to.
She is dodgy - she supports terror, she hates the west, I don't have to provide sources for obvious facts.

..................

You do, when the facts aren't as obvious as you might think. Firstly you posted this

Scary scary that she is rabidly anti semitic, supports hamas, wiped Israel off her wall map in her office as soon as she was sworn in.
Has dodgy jihadi connections, got her brother in to the US illegally by pretending he was her husband.

Yeah scary.

as a reaction to this post
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109788560&postcount=9412


Now I know they all probably look the same to you, but the woman in incident I posted was Movita Johnson-Harrell, who was being sworn in to the Pennsylvania state legislature. The woman you're referring to is
Ilhan Omar, a member of the senate of the US.




Your "sources"

https://www.dailywire.com/news/45517/ilhan-omar-urges-release-jailed-muslim-brotherhood-ryan-saavedra


This is the person who she and Amnesty international want released -

Hoda Abdelmoniem is a 60-year-old human rights lawyer who volunteers as a consultant for the Egyptian Coordination for Rights and Freedoms (ECRF), a prominent human rights organisation. In the last five years, Hoda has been documenting human rights violations, including cases of enforced disappearances.
She is also a lawyer at the Egyptian Cassation and Supreme Constitutional Courts, as well as a former member of the National Council for Human Rights and the Egyptian Bar Association.
Amnesty International believes that Hoda’s activism, as well as her being a member of the defence team in several human rights cases, are the reasons behind her arrest.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190119-amnesty-egypt-must-release-rights-activist-abdelmonem/
https://www.amnesty.org/download/Documents/MDE1293652018ENGLISH.pdf




I was on a large American board years ago, and they do let a lot of stuff out there that wouldn't be allowed here. They banned starting threads based on

WND stories though.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/WND


Looks photoshopped - anyhoo, she's entitled to her opinion

https://abcstlouis.com/news/nation-world/newly-sworn-in-michigan-rep-catching-heat-for-capitol-hill-office-map-alteration

ohnonotgmail

Odhinn wrote: »

WND stories though.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/WND

WND's coverage provides multiple sides of issues: the very conservative viewpoint and the ultra-conservative viewpoint.

Odhinn

Oddly this timely article shows that working with WND has exposed the "Hazards of Belief" to quite a few of its customers and authors.

In early 2017, an email landed in the inbox of the husband of a stay-at-home mother of three in Wisconsin.
It was just what Diane Anthony thought she needed.
She’d been working on a novel titled “Supernova” about a worldwide calamity that killed hordes of people but gave superpowers to the survivors. The email offered a deal: World Ahead Press, a publishing arm of WND, would publish her book for a fee, promote it for her and give her a share of sales proceeds.
Anthony sifted through the different publishing options, each with a different price tag attached.
“We thought that if we’re helping our fellow Christians, that seems like a good road to go down,” she said in a recent interview. “We went for the most expensive package.”
It cost $9,999.
At points scattered across the country, others reached the same conclusion: They could trust WND because of its Christian values. In Florida, Patricia Feijo dug into her dwindling savings for $9,999 to tell her version of her husband’s imprisonment for promoting unapproved cancer treatments through their ministry, Daniel Chapter One, in a book titled “Called to Stand: How a Small Christian Ministry Courageously Stood Up to Government Tyranny.”
In Virginia, Rita Dunaway — a lawyer who contributed columns to WND — struck a more traditional publishing deal, in which she would receive royalties but not have to pay for publication.
Each of the women would have their expectations shattered. Calls and emails went unreturned. Anthony and Feijo said they hadn’t gotten audiobooks they’d been promised. Dunaway felt she was getting excuses about the months-long delay in publishing her book.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/inside-the-spectacular-fall-of-the-granddaddy-of-right-wing-conspiracy-sites/2019/04/02/6ac53122-3ba6-11e9-a06c-3ec8ed509d15_story.html?utm_term=.353cba61e6d0

Hotblack Desiato

These people are so stupid though, they might not be dealing with the real WND at all, just an opportunistic spammer.

robindch

Hector Savage wrote: »

Again, you can believe what you want, at the end of the day we all believe what WE WANT to.

Not really. There are lots of people around the place. including quite a few here on A+A, whose opinions are guided by relevant facts. And I'd reckon that the majority of them might update their opinions, should the relevant facts ever be updated.

Hector Savage

Odhinn wrote: »

Yep, had to quit the netherlands for the US. A lot of her story never added up in many regards.

Now I know they all probably look the same to you, ....[/B].

No surprise you are skeptical of Ayan Hirsi Ali, a true modern feminist - but how dare she speak out against Islam!!!

ah yes, the old "racist" angle, at least use a better buzzword for it - "Islamaphobia"

smacl

Hector Savage wrote: »

No surprise you are skeptical of Ayan Hirsi Ali, a true modern feminist - but how dare she speak out against Islam!!!

From what I gather, she speaks out more for reform of Islam than opposition to it, particularly with respect to maltreatment of women. From what little I've read, her arguments seem well placed, though I can't see her getting much traction within mainstream Islam, even among moderates.

Odhinn

Hector Savage wrote: »

No surprise you are skeptical of Ayan Hirsi Ali, a true modern feminist - but how dare she speak out against Islam!!!

ah yes, the old "racist" angle, at least use a better buzzword for it - "Islamaphobia"

Are you trying to skip past the fact that you wrongly identified the muslim woman elected to a state legislature with the muslim woman elected to the US senate?

Hector Savage

Odhinn wrote: »

Are you trying to skip past the fact that you wrongly identified the muslim woman elected to a state legislature with the muslim woman elected to the US senate?

I'll put my hands up there
I made a mistake.

I retract it, I have actually been reading up on her over the last half hour, seems she _might_ not be as bad as I thought.

I need to re-evaluate my sources.

Hector Savage

Anyway lads, believe it or not I think we'd all agree on 90% of things if we really got down to it, forums / online discussions can cause barriers.

You might think I'm a bigot, but I am happy to re-evaluate certain viewpoints, have been looking a lot at Maajid Nawaz and the British Humanist society and it honestly gives me hope.

smacl

Hector Savage wrote: »

Anyway lads, believe it or not I think we'd all agree on 90% of things if we really got down to it, forums / online discussions can cause barriers.

You might think I'm a bigot, but I am happy to re-evaluate certain viewpoints, have been looking a lot at Maajid Nawaz and the British Humanist society and it honestly gives me hope.

You're probably already aware of the phenomenon, but when searching the web for news, watch out for the media / filter bubble, in that when you search for news, you can end up primarily with content you'd tend to agree with which in turn leads to confirmation bias. Personally, I find it helps to look at multiple sources and primary where possible and to always be willing to get it wrong. I change my stance quite often on numerous issues on that basis.

nozzferrahhtoo

Islam does bear the brunt of the majority of my floccinaucinihilipilification too, though perhaps not to the extend of your good self Hector.

I do keep meaning to look more deeply into Maajid Nawaz and his work. The little I know or have heard seems very positive. Almost TOO positive. If we could replace the Muslim world with copies of him tomorrow, it would be a very different world I suspect. Very progressive but still very devoted to his faith.

smacl

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

I do keep meaning to look more deeply into Maajid Nawaz and his work. The little I know or have heard seems very positive. Almost TOO positive. If we could replace the Muslim world with copies of him tomorrow, it would be a very different world I suspect. Very progressive but still very devoted to his faith.

I'm sceptical of Qulliam and Maajid Nawaz as well. Seems like something of a paper tiger.

Hector Savage

Hi there,
Can anyone identify this fraud pastor here :

https://youtu.be/TCKeMlC6nYg?t=1552

cheers

Hotblack Desiato

Robert Tilton

People make youtube videos of him doing his schtick with his weird facial expressions, with added fart sounds. That's how I recognised him, and 'farting preacher' on youtube delivered the goods as it were.

Hector Savage

Jesus, he makes $90M a year on his sham.
Christ, I am in the wrong trade...

Ironically one would need to have zero morals to make a living from that though.

Hector Savage

It's f*cking incredible!!
How is this legal ?