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Bloody Sunday soldier to be charged with murder

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Comments

  • #512
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    janfebmar wrote: »
    The loyayist paramilitaries would probably say those bombings were in response to bombings in N. Ireland. Tit for tat it was called. That is why the armed struggle was wrong.








    Cowardly putting a bomb under a retired or part time policemans car did not achieve anything either. The aim of the armed struggle was to get the the British out of Ireland, it did not achieve that.

    The British security forces were responsible for the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. The PIRA should not have retaliated in kind but that's the message they were sending.

    Nationalists were second class citizens in their own country, they were treated like dirt and the loyalist dead squads were attempting to force them out of their homes. The PIRA did some bad things but they also saved their people from an attempt at ethnic cleansing.


  • #513
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Berserker wrote: »
    Did the people who were in those bars or the people of Birmingham as a whole, a sizable chunk of whom were Irish or of Irish decent, play some part in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings? Let's leave Dublin and Monaghan to one side for the moment and focus on the matter in hand. Might end up losing focus on the despicable act that was the Birmingham bombings and no true justice seeker would want that.

    This thread is about Bloody Sunday. The victims of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings were innocent as well. As I said, the PIRA should not have sunk to that level but they wanted to show the British people what it was like.


  • #514
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,611 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    NIMAN wrote: »
    People continuing to compare a terrorist organisation with the states' forces of law and order.

    Always baffles me.

    British state forces were terrorists.


  • #515
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    British state forces were terrorists.

    All of the over 300,000 of them who served in N. Ireland? I do not think so. They were brought in to keep the peace. Are you aware that of the 203 murders between 1971 and 1989 in the Fermanagh and south Tyrone area alone, about 178 were carried out by republican paramilitaries? Does that tell you the British state forces were terrorists?


  • #516
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,293 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    More of the sanctimonious nonsense but this time sanctimonious lies.

    I have always said Liam Adams got what he deserved.

    And i have always said murderers should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law but you seem to think i defend murderers.


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  • #517
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,611 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    janfebmar wrote: »
    All of the over 300,000 of them who served in N. Ireland? I do not think so. They were brought in to keep the peace. Are you aware that of the 203 murders between 1971 and 1989 in the Fermanagh and south Tyrone area alone, about 178 were carried out by republican paramilitaries? Does that tell you the British state forces were terrorists?

    No, how would it? That's a stupid stupid question.

    Their collision with loyalist terrorists is what tells me they were.



    _


  • #518
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,293 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I condemn all the killing but mostly those who allowed it to happen and as it turns out where involved, instead of doing what they are supposed to as responsible governments.

    So would you here and now condemn Gerry Adams for allowing the murder of so many innocent civilians in Birmingham?


  • #519
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    Their collision with loyalist terrorists is what tells me they were.
    _
    So you think all members of the security forces in the North colluded with loyalist terrorists, and all members of the security forces in the Republic colluded with republican terrorists.


  • #520
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,611 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    janfebmar wrote: »
    So you think all members of the security forces in the North colluded with loyalist terrorists, and all members of the security forces in the Republic colluded with republican terrorists.

    If you can find where I said that then I'd be glad to see it. Why are you making things up? That's a completely idiotic thing to be at though not unsurprising for the like of you.


  • #521
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,293 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    janfebmar wrote: »
    So you think all members of the security forces in the North colluded with loyalist terrorists, and all members of the security forces in the Republic colluded with republican terrorists.

    Please do not thank my posts, refer to my posts or quote my posts.


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  • #522
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    If you can find where I said that then I'd be glad to see it.

    You implied it when you said:
    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    British state forces were terrorists.

    I think most of the hundreds of thousands were law abiding people, working for a government, earning a living. Sure there were a few bad apples, but I have respect for most people in served in the security forces on both sides of the border.


  • #523
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,293 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Please do not thank my posts, refer to my posts or quote my posts.

    That also goes for you EOTR


  • #524
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,434 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »

    I want and require justice for everyone because it is the only way to heal this society.

    Then I am sure you will be vitriolic in your condemnation that Sinn Fein/PIRA are not that willing to cooperate and help prosecute the people involved in these bombings?


  • #525
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    markodaly wrote: »
    Then I am sure you will be vitriolic in your condemnation that Sinn Fein/PIRA are not that willing to cooperate and help prosecute the people involved in these bombings?

    Can we get some of your vitriol condemning the British soldiers? I haven't been following the thread so I may have missed it.

    Give them hell. Be brutal.


  • #526
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,080 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    So would you here and now condemn Gerry Adams for allowing the murder of so many innocent civilians in Birmingham?

    If Adams allowed it, then I condemn him.


  • #527
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,080 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    Then I am sure you will be vitriolic in your condemnation that Sinn Fein/PIRA are not that willing to cooperate and help prosecute the people involved in these bombings?

    SF/IRA are willing to take part in a Truth process. The only people who aren't are The British and Loyalists. That speaks for itself.


  • #528
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,434 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Can we get some of your vitriol condemning the British soldiers? I haven't been following the thread so I may have missed it.

    Give them hell. Be brutal.

    That's cute.

    But I am consistent on this issue.

    Scumbags, be they from the British Army or PIRA or UVF or whomever that kill, maim innocent people should be locked up with the keys thrown away.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109694782&postcount=259

    We in Ireland though, seem to have a sneaky regard for the Provo's and give them a bit of a pass. It's self-evident in this thread.

    Those that committed the Birmingham bombings should be up in court as no one has faced justice. You can be sure as hell that the likes of Gerry Adams, and Slab Murphy know intimate details about this and can help with a successful prosecution.

    The victims of Derry's bloody Sunday deserve justice, as do the victims of the Birmingham bombings.


  • #529
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    markodaly wrote: »
    That's cute.

    But I am consistent on this issue.

    Scumbags, be they from the British Army or PIRA or UVF or whomever that kill, maim innocent people should be locked up with the keys thrown away.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109694782&postcount=259

    We in Ireland though, seem to have a sneaky regard for the Provo's and give them a bit of a pass. It's self-evident in this thread.

    Those that committed the Birmingham bombings should be up in court as no one has faced justice. You can be sure as hell that the likes of Gerry Adams, and Slab Murphy know intimate details about this and can help with a successful prosecution.

    The victims of Derry's bloody Sunday deserve justice, as do the victims of the Birmingham bombings.

    I think the vast majority look at the IRA with distain. These threads are always an over representation of minority views since most people don't even bother posting, but those who feel strongly always post.


  • #530
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,080 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    That's cute.

    But I am consistent on this issue.

    Scumbags, be they from the British Army or PIRA or UVF or whomever that kill, maim innocent people should be locked up with the keys thrown away.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109694782&postcount=259

    We in Ireland though, seem to have a sneaky regard for the Provo's and give them a bit of a pass. It's self-evident in this thread.

    Those that committed the Birmingham bombings should be up in court as no one has faced justice. You can be sure as hell that the likes of Gerry Adams, and Slab Murphy know intimate details about this and can help with a successful prosecution.

    The victims of Derry's bloody Sunday deserve justice, as do the victims of the Birmingham bombings.

    British MP's claim they know as well.
    Unfortunately 'knowing' is not enough.

    Keeping to the subject of the thread, the British government have known for 40 years what happened in Derry but not a sinner has faced 'justice' for it.


  • #531
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,434 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    British MP's claim they know as well.
    Unfortunately 'knowing' is not enough.

    You would think guys like Gerry Adams (who was on the IRA Army Council at the time apparently) and Thomas Slab Murphy, ex chief of staff of the PIRA would have a little bit of proof and have more than 'knowing'.
    They could act as witnesses and stand in the dock, point at the finger at the men involved and be honest and open about it in court and or an affidavit.


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  • #532
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,434 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think the vast majority look at the IRA with distain. These threads are always an over representation of minority views since most people don't even bother posting, but those who feel strongly always post.

    I agree.

    However, I do not see views here defending the British Army involvement in the North. But we do see the three card shuffle when it comes to Provo actions.

    The usual posters as always.


  • #533
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,080 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    You would think guys like Gerry Adams (who was on the IRA Army Council at the time apparently) and Thomas Slab Murphy, ex chief of staff of the PIRA would have a little bit of proof and have more than 'knowing'.
    They could act as witnesses and stand in the dock, point at the finger at the men involved and be honest and open about it in court and or an affidavit.

    The IRA have said again and again that they are willing to bring closure to the events of the conflict, if all sides do.
    This is not impossible, it has worked before after bitter long conflicts/war.

    But it is being blocked.


  • #534
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    markodaly wrote: »
    I agree.

    However, I do not see views here defending the British Army involvement in the North. But we do see the three card shuffle when it comes to Provo actions.

    The usual posters as always.

    I don't mind their involvement overall. I am friends with an old English guy who was stationed in the North and after he realised I'd be ok with him even telling me that, he spoke well about his intentions and want for peace.


    You can't really expect positive views of it from most people. Until I met him, my view of the British army was scary border crossings when I was young.


  • #535
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,434 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The IRA have said again and again that they are willing to bring closure to the events of the conflict, if all sides do.
    This is not impossible, it has worked before after bitter long conflicts/war.

    But it is being blocked.

    Ads by Google, this is the type of post I was referring to earlier.

    @Francie, there is no one 'blocking' Gerry Adams, Slab Murphy or any other IRA man with intimate knowledge of these bombings but SF/IRA themselves.

    Jumping through moral hoops in an effort to deny victims their justice.


  • #536
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,080 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    Ads by Google, this is the type of post I was referring to earlier.

    @Francie, there is no one 'blocking' Gerry Adams, Slab Murphy or any other IRA man with intimate knowledge of these bombings but SF/IRA themselves.

    Jumping through moral hoops in an effort to deny victims their justice.

    So apart from assuming that these people have 'intimate knowledge' you also wish for one side to begin shopping their own soldiers?

    You are either incredibly naive or ....

    No, there is no 'or', you ARE incredibly naive to expect that to happen.

    And yes, the British have said no to a Truth process, so 'blocking' is fully correct. Not the first time you have arrived here to preach from an under-informed position.


  • #537
    mattser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭mattser


    markodaly wrote: »
    I agree.

    However, I do not see views here defending the British Army involvement in the North. But we do see the three card shuffle when it comes to Provo actions.

    The usual posters as always.

    An amazing bunch really. You have to give them credit for getting wifi available 24/7/365 in their caves.


  • #538
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,434 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So apart from assuming that these people have 'intimate knowledge' you also wish for one side to begin shopping their own soldiers?

    Ah, so one rule for the British Army, another rule for SF/IRA.
    Glad we cleared that up.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109692747&postcount=188
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I don't really care if these old men spend actual time in jail, the fact they are tried is the import
    You are either incredibly naive or ....

    I thought that victims deserved their day in court like the victims of Bloody Sunday. Common decency can see that. Alas, it appears you wish to play the Orwellian Animal Farm game. BA bad, SF/IRA better.


  • #539
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,080 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    Ah, so one rule for the British Army, another rule for SF/IRA.
    Glad we cleared that up.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109692747&postcount=188





    I thought that victims deserved their day in court like the victims of Bloody Sunday. Common decency can see that. Alas, it appears you wish to play the Orwellian Animal Farm game. BA bad, SF/IRA better.

    No Mark, you are making things up again.

    It is the same rule for all. But those rules are clearly not being observed are they.

    30,000 people involved in the conflict went to jail. How many of them came from the BA?

    I will let you crunch the numbers on that one.


  • #540
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Is the Birmingham families loss any less than the Ballymurphy families? Are they not entitles to justice for their murdered loved ones too?

    Of course not. It's disgusting that innocent people are murdered. That's it. No whataboutery or whatever.

    I mean this next statement not to qualify or distract from my previous statement and I hope you appreciate that. There's a valid point to be made in relation to the hierarchy of victims some people have in their minds. For instance with the Bloody Sunday murders and Ballymurphy you have posters preempting their sympathy with "well the army were on edge" or "some of the victims may have been IRA". Some of the families of those dead have to also deal with clearing the names of those they love. That needs to stop before respect will come back into this conversation.


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  • #541
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The IRA have said again and again that they are willing to bring closure to the events of the conflict, if all sides do.
    And you believe them, when Adams says he was never even in the PIRA? What records did they ever keep, and even if they did keep records, do you really think they would tell all on each other at this stage, "to bring closure to the events of the conflict" ? When they would not even help innocent victims of the troubles with a bit of innocent information like telling the children of Jean McColville what happened, and where she was buried?


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