Bloody Sunday soldier to be charged with murder

fonecrusher1

steddyeddy wrote: »

To be honest I don't mind so much. I think it's great that murderers will actually be dragged through the legal process and finally be actually charged with murder. At least it's ruined what would have been a cushy retirement.

But sure they've gotten away with it. Sadly the murdering soldiers have lived their lives in freedom. As planned many years ago when they realized the inquiry wasn't going away. What are they in their late 70's early 80's at this stage?

steddyeddy

Guys is it me or are the posters who paint themselves as being against everything the IRA did incredibly cold when it comes to violence. We have an incident that a tribunal determined involved an unarmed, innocent 15 year old kid shot in the head twice and another involving civil rights protesters, again unarmed, again innocent shot down, one shot in the back while crawling away.

The responses from those who claim to hate the IRA?

Maybe the army were provoked

Who says it was murder

Maybe the victims were armed

The army is a stressful job

I'm sorry but the posters I'm describing are the worst apologists for the murder of innocent civilians and you can also add hypocrisy to that.

Farawayhome

steddyeddy wrote: »

Guys is it me or are the posters who paint themselves as being against everything the IRA did incredibly cold when it comes to violence. We have an incident that a tribunal determined involved an unarmed, innocent 15 year old kid shot in the head twice and another involving civil rights protesters, again unarmed, again innocent shot down, one shot in the back while crawling away.

The responses from those who claim to hate the IRA?







I'm sorry but the posters I'm describing are the worst apologists for the murder of innocent civilians and you can also add hypocrisy to that.

Scratch the surface even a little and the truth will emerge quickly with this sort of person. They have a side, they are extremely pro British in their world view. They are not neutral observers. You have to remember that not everyone was in favour of any form of independence for Ireland. These people didn't just disappear, these people passed their views on, we are left with a fairly significant number who excuse the murder of innocents and put the blame squarely on those who fought for our freedom.

Berserker

NIMAN wrote: »

Notice again that the soldier is in ill health, same as Soldier F from the Bloody Sunday murders. I am guessing there is an element of picking the guys who will never be put in jail due to it.

Old people get sick. Probably won't spend any time in jail, as you say. Them's the breaks!

Berserker

Berserker wrote: »

Old people get sick. Probably won't spend any time in jail, as you say. Them's the breaks!

Hmmm. So, the British government spent decades denying any wrongdoing, then they arranged enquiries that were useless because the scope of the enquiries were so limited.

When they eventually got around to acknowledging that crimes were committed, and people are concerned that the perpetrators may not serve jail time, due to advanced age/illness, your attitude is "Them's the breaks!"

Your "notion" of justice is both revealing, and disturbing.

steddyeddy

Berserker wrote: »

Old people get sick. Probably won't spend any time in jail, as you say. Them's the breaks!

But I don't see a problem with it to be honest. He'll have this prosecution hanging over him during his retirement. It's also fun to see the ex-military in the UK have a whinge about it.

Berserker

Deleted User wrote: »

Hmmm. So, the British government spent decades denying any wrongdoing, then they arranged enquiries that were useless because the scope of the enquiries were so limited.

When they eventually got around to acknowledging that crimes were committed, and people are concerned that the perpetrators may not serve jail time, due to advanced age/illness, your attitude is "Them's the breaks!"

Your "notion" of justice is both revealing, and disturbing.

The scope of the enquiries were set so people could get some form of closure. Enquiries which were very wide by definition would have resulted in people going round and round in circles, for far longer, with no end result. Given how difficult this process has been so far, can you imagine how trying it would have been if the scope was wider?

steddyeddy wrote: »

But I don't see a problem with it to be honest. He'll have this prosecution hanging over him during his retirement.

Given that he's in ill-health, I suspect that staying alive will be infinitely more concerning to him. He may never have to deal with this case in the light of day.

steddyeddy

Berserker wrote: »

Given that he's in ill-health, I suspect that staying alive will be infinitely more concerning to him. He may never have to deal with this case in the light of day.

Maybe but you got to admit it's fun to see the hordes of whinging ex NI service men saying they feel abandoned by their government again.

Berserker

steddyeddy wrote: »

Maybe but you got to admit it's fun to see the hordes of whinging ex NI service men saying they feel abandoned by their government again.

I don't there is anything fun about what went on in Northern Ireland during that period myself.

Farawayhome

They may die soon but at least everyone will know about the atrocities they committed. Hopefully, their families disown them if they haven't already done so and let them die alone in prison or wherever they end up.

irishgrover

Farawayhome wrote: »

Scratch the surface even a little and the truth will emerge quickly with this sort of person. They have a side, they are extremely pro British in their world view. They are not neutral observers. You have to remember that not everyone was in favour of any form of independence for Ireland. These people didn't just disappear, these people passed their views on, we are left with a fairly significant number who excuse the murder of innocents and put the blame squarely on those who fought for our freedom.

I unapologetically believe that for the most part the IRA were full of murderous scum, who’s actions brought misery to 10's of thousands and who ensured the people looking for peace and stability in NI would have to wait decades longer.....

I believe that soldiers who go around shooting unarmed children in the head and then spend years and decades covering it up (at the direct cost of closure or peace and sanity of their victims’ families) are as bad if not worse and actively endorse hunting them down and holding them accountable for their crimes.
I believe that public servants, civil servants and politicians who colluded in cover ups of same should be equally held accountable and charged whatever is appropriate.

I in no way believe the these two views are mutually exclusive.

I also don't think I'm in a small minority

Edgware

Farawayhome wrote: »

They may die soon but at least everyone will know about the atrocities they committed. Hopefully, their families disown them if they haven't already done so and let them die alone in prison or wherever they end up.

At least the Provos did away with that old fair trial ****e and plugged so called informers etc and dumped them down a back road

Farawayhome

irishgrover wrote: »

I unapologetically believe that for the most part the IRA were full of murderous scum, who’s actions brought misery to 10's of thousands and who ensured the people looking for peace and stability in NI would have to wait decades longer.....

I believe that soldiers who go around shooting unarmed children in the head and then spend years and decades covering it up (at the direct cost of closure or peace and sanity of their victims’ families) are as bad if not worse and actively endorse hunting them down and holding them accountable for their crimes.
I believe that public servants, civil servants and politicians who colluded in cover ups of same should be equally held accountable and charged whatever is appropriate.

I in no way believe the these two views are mutually exclusive.

I also don't think I'm in a small minority

I wasn't just talking about the most recent war. Did you take part in any commemorations in 2016 and celebrate our Republican heroes who fought for Irish independence?
The actions of the British armed forces have always been disgusting, no matter what decade you look at it.

Farawayhome

Edgware wrote: »

At least the Provos did away with that old fair trial ****e and plugged so called informers etc and dumped them down a back road

Still no sympathy for 15 year old Daniel Hegarty who was murdered by a member of the British security forces?

steddyeddy

Berserker wrote: »

I don't there is anything fun about what went on in Northern Ireland during that period myself.

It's happening now. Lots of service men who were poorly educated about their role in Northern Ireland now feel hung out to dry. Blaming the government for punishing them for shooting kids in the head and whinging saying they feel used.

steddyeddy

Edgware wrote: »

At least the Provos did away with that old fair trial ****e and plugged so called informers etc and dumped them down a back road

Sorry mate but your views on kids getting murdered makes it hard to believe you really believe what you post.

irishgrover

I guess I would not have such a simple view of the world as you go... IE Brits Bad - Irish Great.
I'm guessing that it would be nice to have such a simple view, much less taxing on the brain. However I tend to see things in shades of grey as opposed to black and white.

OldMrBrennan83

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sorry mate but your views on kids getting murdered makes it hard to believe you really believe what you post.

All informers were kids?

Edgware

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sorry mate but your views on kids getting murdered makes it hard to believe you really believe what you post.

I wont sleep tonight because of that concern

NIMAN

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's happening now. Lots of service men who were poorly educated about their role in Northern Ireland now feel hung out to dry. Blaming the government for punishing them for shooting kids in the head and whinging saying they feel used.

Its not the government punishing them. It's the justice system.

The amount of criteria that have to be satisfied to proceed with a prosecution is huge. That's why only 1 soldier is being charged with the bloody Sunday murders.

For this guy to be getting charged, again there must be enough evidence (he did of course make the rookie mistake of leaving a witness alive, although he tried his best to murder him too).

As for him being abandoned, he will have a huge support in the UK. They always back their military, even when they murder people. Look at the support for the soldier in the bloody Sunday case. Getting massive support.

I will assume that this 2nd soldier will also get his legal costs paid for by the MOD, despite the fact he is being tried for the murder of an unarmed 15 year old child.

steddyeddy

Edgware wrote: »

I wont sleep tonight because of that concern

It's not a concern. I just don't buy your views on the IRA being bad when you post the opposite sentiment about murder in some posts.

Farawayhome

irishgrover wrote: »

I guess I would not have such a simple view of the world as you go... IE Brits Bad - Irish Great.
I'm guessing that it would be nice to have such a simple view, must less taxing on the brain. However I tend to see things in shades of grey as opposed to black and white.

I asked you a very simple question. Your failure to answer tells a lot.

Being anti the crimes of the British armed forces is not the same as being anti British. Being supportive of those who fought for our freedom does not equate to support for all actions of those who fought for our freedom.

irishgrover

Farawayhome wrote:

I asked you a very simple question. Your failure to answer tells a lot.

Your failure to understand or respect my answer says a lot more about you than it does me.
Now jog on, I'm not wasting any more time on you

Farawayhome

irishgrover wrote: »

Your failure to understand or respect my answer says a lot more about you than it does me.
Now jog on, I'm not wasting any more time on you

It's a bit rude to ignore a simple question I asked and then get all stroppy. Poor manners.

irishgrover

Farawayhome wrote:

It's a bit rude to ignore a simple question I asked and then get all stroppy. Poor manners.

Sorry, did not mean to be rude. I just don't want to waste my time being baited into a redundent argument with someone with such simplistic views.
Your approach to engaging in what you would consider to be debate does not meet my personal minimal standards for being arsed to engage with people online. So if it makes you feel any better, I did not mean to be rude, I apologise.

Berserker

NIMAN wrote: »

Its not the government punishing them. It's the justice system.

The amount of criteria that have to be satisfied to proceed with a prosecution is huge. That's why only 1 soldier is being charged with the bloody Sunday murders.

For this guy to be getting charged, again there must be enough evidence (he did of course make the rookie mistake of leaving a witness alive, although he tried his best to murder him too).

As for him being abandoned, he will have a huge support in the UK. They always back their military, even when they murder people. Look at the support for the soldier in the bloody Sunday case. Getting massive support.

Very good post on a few different fronts. Firstly, I think emotions get in the way here and people don't realise the sheer volume of work that goes into building these cases. Years and years of fact finding and information harvesting needs to go into building these cases. If there are any gaps, the case will collapse. I'd be surprised if the soldier spends any time in court. If he does, they must have a watertight case against him.

People in the UK, will support their troops. Ireland, being a neutral country, doesn't have this kind of relationship with it's armed forces. The US is like the UK on meth when it comes to this kind of thing. The respect the forces have over there is just nuts.

Edgware

irishgrover wrote: »

Sorry, did not mean to be rude. I just don't want to waste my time being baited into a redundent argument with someone with such simplistic views.
Your approach to engaging in what you would consider to be debate does not meet my personal minimal standards for being arsed to engage with people online. So if it makes you feel any better, I did not mean to be rude, I apologise.

Apology accepted

Farawayhome

irishgrover wrote: »

Sorry, did not mean to be rude. I just don't want to waste my time being baited into a redundent argument with someone with such simplistic views.
Your approach to engaging in what you would consider to be debate does not meet my personal minimal standards for being arsed to engage with people online. So if it makes you feel any better, I did not mean to be rude, I apologise.

You're still being rude. You don't know my views and instead are fabricating them.

Farawayhome

Edgware wrote: »

Apology accepted

Still no sympathy for Daniel Hegarty?

Edgware

Farawayhome wrote: »

Still no sympathy for Daniel Hegarty?

?