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Bloody Sunday soldier to be charged with murder

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    #452
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    janfebmar wrote:
    So it was ok to kill his companion?


    Putting yourself in a vehicle with a known terrorist whom is wanted by the authorities may not be the best if ideas.
    But your referencing this event is not for your concern of O'Hares companion. You have already tried to suggest the victims of the Paras on Bloody Sunday had nail bombs. You are a pathetic individual and your behaviour here is abhorrent.


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    #453
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    janfebmar wrote:
    And yet if a soldier kills an unknown person in a speeding car that breaks through a checkpoint in N. Ireland, I thought I read that the soldier responsible there spent years in prison. Maybe I was wrong.


    You have been wrong multiple times, so no change there. You seem intent on justifying murder by the security services though.


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    #454
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Putting yourself in a vehicle with a known terrorist whom is wanted by the authorities may not be the best if ideas.
    If you are in a speeding car it is probably difficult for the authorities to know exactly who is in the car.

    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    You have already tried to suggest the victims of the Paras on Bloody Sunday had nail bombs.

    No I did not, I said they were innocent and should not have been shot. Get your facts right. Read the Saville report. In actual fact Saville concludes the nail bombs found on someone were on him, and were not planted, when he was shot. I said they were probably planted, because you could not trust the British at the time. Either way, there was no justification for justifying shooting those shot on Bloody Sunday. They were innocent and certainly no danger to the army when they were shot.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/the-bloody-sunday-victims-their-stories-and-what-the-2010-saville-report-said-about-them-1.3825842


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    #455
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    janfebmar wrote:
    I cannot remember much of the English riots in 2011 - had people in the English riots nail bombs / petrol bombs and killed previously?

    janfebmar wrote:
    No I did not, I said they were innocent and should not have been shot. Get your facts right. Read the Saville report. In actual fact Saville concludes the nail bombs found on someone were on him, and were not planted, when he was shot. I said they were probably planted, because you could not trust the British at the time. Either way, there was no justification for justifying shooting those shot on Bloody Sunday. They were innocent and certainly no danger to the army when they were shot.


    I'm finished replying to the likes of you.


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    #456
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    You seem intent on justifying murder by the security services though.
    No actually, I asked was " it was ok to kill his companion?" Just beause he was travelling in the car with Dessie O'Hare did he deserve to be shot dead? Perhaps the security services could have used a stinger or spike strip across the road instead some distance ahead? I did not justify murder by the security services.


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    #457
    tara73
    Registered Users Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭tara73


    this is just insane stuff, all about Bloody Sunday and everything about the British suppression of the irish.

    Honest question, has one british government ever apologised to the irish? I never heard they did. If not, why not and an absolute disgrace.


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    #458
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,428 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    janfebmar wrote: »
    A car broke through a checkpoint and Irish security forces fired on it, killing an occupant and wounding another. Shortly afterwards Taoiseach Charles Haughey congratulated the Gardai and army and said the Irish people owed them 'a great debt of gratitude.'

    And he was right!


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    #459
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    janfebmar wrote: »
    So it was ok to kill his companion? And to get commended by the Taoiseach for doing so.

    And yet if a soldier kills an unknown person in a speeding car that breaks through a checkpoint in N. Ireland, I thought I read that the soldier responsible there spent years in prison. Maybe I was wrong.


    I linked it a few pages back, so cut the crap please. The para shot into a speeding car at a pair of teenagers.


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    #460
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    I'm finished replying to the likes of you.
    Ah dont go. You're great craic


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    #461
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Edgware wrote:
    Ah dont go. You're great craic


    Didn't say i was going, just not engaging any further with an apologist for murderers.


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    #462
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Didn't say i was going, just not engaging any further with an apologist for murderers.

    It was Taoiseach Charles Haughey at the time who congratulated the Gardai and army. He said the Irish people owed them 'a great debt of gratitude." I did not say that.

    I wrote" Just beause he was travelling in the car with Dessie O'Hare did he deserve to be shot dead? Perhaps the security services could have used a stinger or spike strip across the road instead some distance ahead? I did not justify murder by the security services." So do not call me an apologist for murderers. If you fell that strongly about punishing a soldier who shot and killed someone who tried to speed through a roadblock, maybe you think the Republic should have followed the Norths lead, where a Para was jailed for killing someone who sped through a roadblock? Is that what your point is?

    In the States you definitely do stop at roadblocks, I always did anyway when I lived there for some years. Did you know police in the U.S. kill on average more than 1,000 men per year, or about three men per day? I know it is a big country, but still. I'm sure some of those were innocent too. Certainly not all deserved to die.


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    #463
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    janfebmar wrote: »
    It was Taoiseach(...............) to die.




    Do you understand the difference between "teenager" and "armed criminal"?


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    #464
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    And so it begins-raking up the past going to cause more trouble.
    https://www.derrynow.com/news/republicans-say-will-radically-confront-proposed-british-army-veterans-rally-derry/271313


    One or two debt collection agencies might also be planning to disrupt that rally given who is involved in organising it ........


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    #465
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    blackwhite wrote: »
    One or two debt collection agencies might also be planning to disrupt that rally given who is involved in organising it ........

    Not sure what you mean but I'm relieved the rally has been cancelled.


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    #466
    dermo888
    Site Banned Posts: 160 ✭✭dermo888


    Over the years, I've tried to understand all sides. I'd an English friend from Norwich who served in the British Armed Forces. Since he's dead now, I might as well give his opinion. While alive, I could never talk. I would'nt. Its just one of those things, we can't mess with. Its just too dangerous.

    He'd served in Aden, Derry and South Armagh. Politically he'd be Conservative leaning, anti-Brexit. He left the Armed Forces in 1971, and he was'nt happy at all with the direction Northern Ireland was going.

    Surprisingly - for an ex British Armed Forces guy, he'd say go ahead with a prosecution, because the 'Rules of Engagement' with a civilian population were'nt followed.

    I won't deny that at times Roger could be racist, - he certainly did'nt think much of the Saudis, loathed their driving technique, their work ethic, and a bit more. But he liked Ireland and the Irish. He had'nt much time for the Unionists at all, considering them backward bitter and twisted, and saw that Ireland was ready to move on.

    Its just a pity he's not around (died in July 2018 aged 71), to say more.

    For an ex soldier he was'nt the type to turn and say 'This is war'. Northern Ireland was a funny kind of war. In South Armagh, there were no rules. Belfast too. Derry was a different 'odder' kind of place. Northern Ireland and its conflict were'nt geographically homogenous. Only a local could understand it. Heck the Sodliers and the British Government could'nt understand it.


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    #467
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    If you are in a speeding car it is probably difficult for the authorities to know exactly who is in the car.




    No I did not, I said they were innocent and should not have been shot. Get your facts right. Read the Saville report. In actual fact Saville concludes the nail bombs found on someone were on him, and were not planted, when he was shot. I said they were probably planted, because you could not trust the British at the time. Either way, there was no justification for justifying shooting those shot on Bloody Sunday. They were innocent and certainly no danger to the army when they were shot.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/the-bloody-sunday-victims-their-stories-and-what-the-2010-saville-report-said-about-them-1.3825842

    But the soldiers at Warrenpoint were also armed!


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    #468
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,428 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    I see a British court has ruled that the Birmingham pub bombings were indeed murder, i wonder will the IRA supporters in the thread continue to make excuses for that disgraceful action or will they have the guts to call for the bomers still alive to be arrested and tried for murder?


    Birmingham pub bombing was IRA murder, jury rules

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-birmingham-pub-bombings-jury-14240359


    There was a dramatic twist towards the end of evidence at the hearings, when a former IRA member named four of the men he claimed were involved in the bombings as Seamus McLoughlin, Mick Murray, Michael Hayes and James Francis Gavin.

    The man, identified in court only as "Witness O", said he had been authorised to give those names by the current head of the IRA in Dublin.


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    #469
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I see a British court has ruled that the Birmingham pub bombings were indeed murder, i wonder will the IRA supporters in the thread continue to make excuses for that disgraceful action or will they have the guts to call for the bomers still alive to be arrested and tried for murder?


    Birmingham pub bombing was IRA murder, jury rules

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-birmingham-pub-bombings-jury-14240359

    Was there ever any doubt that it was murder?
    "Current head of the I.R.A."
    I thought they had gone away


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    #470
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,428 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Edgware wrote: »
    Was there ever any doubt that it was murder?
    "Current head of the I.R.A."
    I thought they had gone away

    Some have called it an "accident" or the victims were "collateral damage".


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    #471
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,954 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    So, I expect that Sinn Fein/IRA will hand over those responsible for these bombings so that they can be tried under a court of Law.

    Or, is it different somehow now because its an IRA man under the cosh.


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    #472
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Let justice be served. It will be interesting to see though how consistent British justice is, if being at the scene of a mass murder and discharging your weapon isn't sufficient evidence to bring you to trial will a bit of hearsay do?


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    #473
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Great news for the victims of the Birmingham bombings and the Irish community in Birmingham who've have had to live with this cloud over theirs heads for decades. Let's hope they can press ahead with haste and bring those responsible to justice.
    Edgware wrote: »
    Was there ever any doubt that it was murder?
    "Current head of the I.R.A." I thought they had gone away

    It was always murder. It's an offensive to be a member of the IRA isn't it? Hope the name of this individual has been handed over to the Gardai and the individual in question, along with all of his or her terrorist pals are arrested, charged and thrown into prison for a nice long stretch.


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    #474
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I see a British court has ruled that the Birmingham pub bombings were indeed murder, i wonder will the IRA supporters in the thread continue to make excuses for that disgraceful action or will they have the guts to call for the bomers still alive to be arrested and tried for murder?


    Birmingham pub bombing was IRA murder, jury rules

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-birmingham-pub-bombings-jury-14240359

    You're right there's no difference between the British Armed Forces and the Irish Republican Army.


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    #475
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,428 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    You're right there's no difference between the British Armed Forces and the Irish Republican Army.

    I see no difference in murder, if someone murders innocent people they should face the full weight of the law.


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    #476
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I see no difference in murder, if someone murders innocent people they should face the full weight of the law.

    But only if the justice is equal on both sides?


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    #477
    Shelga
    Registered Users Posts: 3,002 ✭✭✭Shelga


    Took them 6 weeks to decide it was murder?? Was it not blindingly obvious?

    Don’t understand why this has taken 45 years- what am I missing?


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    #478
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,428 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    But only if the justice is equal on both sides?

    If you murder someone, no matter who you are, you should be arrested and put on trial and prosecuted to the FULL extent of the law!

    I have never mentioned sides, i have said ANYONE who murders another person should be held responsible for their actions.


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    #479
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    If you murder someone, no matter who you are, you should be arrested and put on trial and prosecuted to the FULL extent of the law!

    I have never mentioned sides, i have said ANYONE who murders another person should be held responsible for their actions.

    Well I for one would be happy for everyone on both sides to be prosecuted as well. I imagine the majority of people would be the same.


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    #480
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Berserker wrote: »
    Great news for the victims of the Birmingham bombings and the Irish community in Birmingham who've have had to live with this cloud over theirs heads for decades. Let's hope they can press ahead with haste and bring those responsible to justice.



    It was always murder. It's an offensive to be a member of the IRA isn't it? Hope the name of this individual has been handed over to the Gardai and the individual in question, along with all of his or her terrorist pals are arrested, charged and thrown into prison for a nice long stretch.
    At least two are dead and one other a chronic alcoholic


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    #481
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    But only if the justice is equal on both sides?
    Whats the sense of that?
    Dont prosecute one side because you cant get to the other. Nonsense


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