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Madeleine McCann

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Comments

  • #2822
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    cnocbui wrote:
    What DNA test results were withheld? I have read up on what happened on Jersey, which is precisely why I am asking you why you seem to think something entirely different happened on Jersey.


    You have laid the blame for the Jersey fiasco solely on the dogs which is factually incorrect. The results from the coconut shell and 'bone' fragment were withheld for several weeks.


  • #2823
    Get Real
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Get Real


    Something Else
    Trekker09 wrote: »
    Both the McCanns were doctors. It could be possible that one of them was in contact with a corpse in the line of their work? During the segment wth the dogs, it was explained that teh dogs' sense of smell is so acute that they could find and lock onto a scent from years ago.

    Plus, it's a holiday apartment, it could possible host 20 - 30 different groups per year. I'm sure that the maid service isn't a deep forensic clean.

    One dog was a cadaver, specifically trained to sniff out human cadaverine, different to that of animal. The other was trained to sniff out human blood. Both indicated in the exact same spots, independently of each other. They also both indicated in the boot of the car the McCanns rented, again independently of each other.

    It's not enough to indicate any crime. But surely the fact two separate dogs, sniffing out separate things, indicated in the same spots and car, requires explaining?

    As doctors, like you say, they also said the cadaver smell was from old pork chops in the boot. Of course, nobody would want to shake the boat at a press conference, but human cadaverine doesn't emit from cooked or raw pork chops.

    Cadaver dog indicated on Madeline's toy, and Kate McCanns clothes. She explained the clothes by saying she dealt with 6 bodies two weeks prior to holidaying and the toy that she'd often take it to work and it came into contact with dead bodies.

    There's no evidence to say they had a part to play. But those explanations are questionable. To me anyway. Fully accept my opinion could be completely wrong.


  • #2824
    Creol1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Creol1


    Something Else
    cnocbui wrote: »
    Why were the Portuguese tracker and SAR dogs - quite a few of them - unable to find where Madeline's body had been taken to and hidden, if you think the UK dogs for money were correct?

    Because they weren't the same quality? The UK dogs were brought in specifically because they were world-class cadaver dogs who may be able to succeed where the other dogs had failed.


  • #2825
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,089 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Creol1 wrote: »
    Because they weren't the same quality? The UK dogs were brought in specifically because they were world-class cadaver dogs who may be able to succeed where the other dogs had failed.

    That is so hilarious. Superior British noses.


  • #2826
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    cnocbui wrote:
    That is so hilarious. Superior British noses.


    You do know it was the McCanns who sought the use of the dogs, then attempted to have the reaction of the dogs discredited.


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  • #2827
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,089 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    You have laid the blame for the Jersey fiasco solely on the dogs which is factually incorrect. The results from the coconut shell and 'bone' fragment were withheld for several weeks.

    So what you seem to be disputing is the dog's being responsible for all of the £20 M waste, not the fact they signaled for cadavers and none were found?


  • #2828
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    cnocbui wrote:
    That is so hilarious. Superior British noses.


    Standard of training as opposed to snout ability, but I'm guessing you know this.


  • #2829
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    cnocbui wrote:
    So what you seem to be disputing is the dog's being responsible for all of the £20 M waste, not the fact they signaled for cadavers and none were found?


    I'm disputing your attempt to misrepresent the Jersey case


  • #2830
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,089 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    You do know it was the McCanns who sought the use of the dogs, then attempted to have the reaction of the dogs discredited.

    That so?
    Sniffer dogs Eddie and Keela had been brought to Praia da Luz in July 2007 at the request of Mark Harrison
    https://www.9news.com.au/world/2017/03/20/14/18/madeleine-mccann-cadaver-sniffer-dogs-reaction-apartment-car-didnt-make-sense


  • #2831
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,089 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Standard of training as opposed to snout ability, but I'm guessing you know this.

    You have evidence for this superior standard of training?

    No forensic evidence was found to support the positive indications given by Eddie and Keela in the McCann case, in the search for Shannon Mathews, or in Jersey, but you are claiming the dogs have superior training and are highly reliable?


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  • #2832
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    cnocbui wrote:
    That so?


    The Guardian of September 22nd 2007 claims the McCanns requested the dogs as they felt the investigation was losing momentum.


  • #2833
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    cnocbui wrote:
    but you are claiming the dogs have superior training and are highly reliable?


    Where did I make this claim other than to point out it's training as opposed to snout ability that may make the British dogs better than their Portuguese counterparts.


  • #2834
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,089 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    The Guardian of September 22nd 2007 claims the McCanns requested the dogs as they felt the investigation was losing momentum.

    Got an actual link for that?


  • #2835
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    cnocbui wrote:
    Got an actual link for that?


    Can't link off my phone but not terribly difficult to Google it. As an aside must be something good about UK trained sniffer dogs. Another team of British sniffer dogs were used again to search areas around P de L in 2014 .


  • #2836
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,089 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Where did I make this claim other than to point out it's training as opposed to snout ability that may make the British dogs better than their Portuguese counterparts.

    What evidence do you have that allows you to objectively assess the quality of training of the Portuguese SAR and sniffer dogs vs the training of the UK dogs and conclude that the training of the Portuguese dogs is inferior?

    It doesn't strike you as odd that the Portuguese have trained sniffer and SAR dogs that never find anything and have never proved beneficial because they are poorly trained, and yet they haven't copped on?


  • #2837
    hawkelady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    Something Else
    Did Kate actually say that she would bring in Madeline’s comfort toy to work with her , and I came in contact with a corpse ??? Christ, I don’t need sniffer dog to tell me that stinks of pure BS !!


  • #2838
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    The parents did it
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Can't link off my phone but not terribly difficult to Google it. As an aside must be something good about UK trained sniffer dogs. Another team of British sniffer dogs were used again to search areas around P de L in 2014 .

    There are working dogs all over the world doing their jobs as needed. The British ones were there because of the British connection the investigation had not necessarily because of their superior abilities...


  • #2839
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    cnocbui wrote:
    It doesn't strike you as odd that the Portuguese have trained sniffer and SAR dogs that never find anything and have never proved beneficial because they are poorly trained, and yet they haven't copped on?


    Strikes me as odd that the only reference to the Portuguese using sniffers dogs is here I can't find any claim that they used dogs during their search if the apartment. Every search I do just mentions the McCanns urging the use of dogs which were brought over from the UK.


  • #2840
    Calltocall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭Calltocall


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Gringo180 wrote: »
    I dont think the parents done it but what really baffles me is the dogs. They smelt the scent of death and blood in the apartment and there rental car. Maybe they get it wrong once but not twice?

    In relation to the blood detected in the apartment, the previous tenant Paul Gordon who stayed there before the mccanns arrived gave a statement to Police that he cut himself shaving in the apartment and that it bled out for 40 minutes he said he walked around the flat with tissue to his face you’ll see it here https://www.google.ie/amp/s/themaddiecasefiles.com/viewtopic.php%3ft=80&amp=1


  • #2841
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Calltocall wrote:
    In relation to the blood detected in the apartment, the previous tenant Paul Gordon who stayed there before the mccanns arrived gave a statement to Police that he cut himself shaving in the apartment and that it bled out for 40 minutes he said he walked around the flat with tissue to his face you’ll see it here


    Your link doesn't work.


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  • #2842
    Calltocall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭Calltocall


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Your link doesn't work.

    This is the extract from his statement in relation to his shaving cut, you’ll find the full statement by googling paul gordon statement, he also mentions the orphanage collector and that he gave him a tenner

    ‘’There were no other incidents whilst we were in Portugal that were noteworthy, apart from this man I have just described, however there was an occasion that I cut myself whilst shaving in the bathroom. I would say that the cut bled for about 45 minutes and that it took some time for the cut to stop bleeding, during which time I walked around the apartment with bits of paper trying to stem the flow of blood’’


  • #2843
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Calltocall wrote:
    In relation to the blood detected in the apartment, the previous tenant Paul Gordon who stayed there before the mccanns arrived gave a statement to Police that he cut himself shaving in the apartment and that it bled out for 40 minutes he said he walked around the flat with tissue to his face you’ll see it here


    Only one of the dogs was trained to react to blood. The other was cadaver trained.


  • #2844
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,089 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Strikes me as odd that the only reference to the Portuguese using sniffers dogs is here I can't find any claim that they used dogs during their search if the apartment. Every search I do just mentions the McCanns urging the use of dogs which were brought over from the UK.

    These do?

    catalog.jpg

    060507-mr-gnr-dogs-search-espiche-camping-7-14309-thumb.jpg


  • #2845
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    hawkelady wrote: »
    Did Kate actually say that she would bring in Madeline’s comfort toy to work with her , and I came in contact with a corpse ??? Christ, I don’t need sniffer dog to tell me that stinks of pure BS !!

    Alot of interesting stuff here

    http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39076140/Main%20Page


  • #2846
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    cnocbui wrote:
    These do?


    As I said i've looked online and can find no mention of the Portuguese Police using dogs to search for Madeline in May 2007.
    So all the photos are of the Police searching for Madeline in 2007?


  • #2847
    QuietMan2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 93 ✭✭QuietMan2010


    hawkelady wrote: »
    Did Kate actually say that she would bring in Madeline’s comfort toy to work with her , and I came in contact with a corpse ??? Christ, I don’t need sniffer dog to tell me that stinks of pure BS !!

    No, apparently she didn't say that she brought it into work.

    I was looking up sources for this myself earlier, as it would seem a very strange thing to do (to bring the toy into work) and came across this site:

    http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078050/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2030#KatetookCuddleCatsometimestowork

    which says there was no source for that claim. It is likely to be linked to the claim that she had been close to six bodies in the two weeks prior to the holiday, where she apparently suggested that Cuddle Cat could have been contaminated from her clothes worn on those work days.

    Though if anyone does have a source for the claim I'd be interested to see it (I have an open mind on the case).


  • #2848
    QuietMan2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 93 ✭✭QuietMan2010


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Thats true alight

    Alot of interesting stuff here

    http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39076140/Main%20Page

    Heh, you posted as I was drafting my post. Both of us linking to the same site but with different interpretations of its content! Lets try to clarify ... the site found no evidence of the claim she took Cuddle Cat to work, but there are sources for the claim that she had been in contact with six bodies in the weeks prior to the holiday. Maybe you meant that the second claim (contact with bodies) was 'true alright'?


  • #2849
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,089 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    As I said i've looked online and can find no mention of the Portuguese Police using dogs to search for Madeline in May 2007.
    So all the photos are of the Police searching for Madeline in 2007?

    Yes. If you use google images and search on "praia luz sniffer dogs" you will find some of them and can follow back to the articles they appear in. Those I posted are from my personal archives which I saved 12 years ago so they may not all still be on the internet.


  • #2850
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Something Else
    dark crystal wrote: »
    No. However, when their hair samples were tested, there were no traces of sedatives found.

    Wasn’t it tested months later, after they’d had their hair cut?


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  • #2851
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Something Else
    cnocbui wrote: »
    There is no evidence of anything, apart from Madeline being missing.

    The cadaver and blood dogs aren’t being considered evidence??


This discussion has been closed.
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