Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

tuxy · 13-03-2019 9:14pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I doubt UK will leave at this stage. Farce

The markets would agree with you sterling just gained 2 cent on the USD.

Frank Bullitt · 13-03-2019 9:15pm

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1105924403525836801

FrancieBrady · 13-03-2019 9:16pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

And screw over how many people? Surely you'd have some sympathy for EU and non-EU migrants if not the British themselves.

People are being screwed over as we speak. I have huge sympathy for British people caught up in this but I don't see any other solution for them unless one of them is called Guy Fawkes.

Irish Praetorian · 13-03-2019 9:16pm

Water John wrote: »

I'm quite happy with tonight's votes, no to no deal, at last. Much stronger prospect of a soft Brexit or having a Ref between TMs Deal or Remain.

As a fairly remainical individual I think that might end up being the worst of both worlds; if there is to be a 2nd Referendum I think it behoves the government to put the 2nd most popular option on the table (no deal) no matter how insane it may sound. Frankly an AV vote between remain, no deal or deal would to my mind be the only sensible way of approaching the matter.

Itssoeasy · 13-03-2019 9:17pm

What has Kenneth Clarke done for Jacob reese mog to include his name with the SNP ? I heard him say that on sky news between votes tonight. Is Kenneth Clarke talking sense or something ?

ancapailldorcha · 13-03-2019 9:17pm

The contrast between the British government and the EU negotiating team is terrifying for migrants living here whose status is threatened. I watched an interview with Sabine Weyand recently and she came across as cool, professional and high capable (Here, if you're interested).

Professor Moriarty · 13-03-2019 9:19pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

What has Kenneth Clarke done for Jacob reese mog to include his name with the SNP ? I heard him say that on sky news between votes tonight. Is Kenneth Clarke talking sense or something ?

Kenneth Clarke is very pro-Europe. Jacob is a little less pro-Europe.

Frank Bullitt · 13-03-2019 9:19pm

Sorry if this has been asked already, but...what the hell is going on?

ancapailldorcha · 13-03-2019 9:19pm

Mod: Post deleted. Take the churlish insults elsewhere.

devnull · 13-03-2019 9:24pm

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1105924171857580033?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1105924171857580033&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Flive-government-to-publish-details-of-no-deal-brexit-plans-11663829

No deal vote tomorrow will delay Brexit until end of June, if passed.

Water John · 13-03-2019 9:24pm

Something like 10 Govn't Ministers abstained. She can't sack a third on her Cabinet.
The indicitive votes by the HOC are now critical. Should have been done weeks ago as per Hilary Benn.

PropJoe10 · 13-03-2019 9:25pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

What has Kenneth Clarke done for Jacob reese mog to include his name with the SNP ? I heard him say that on sky news between votes tonight. Is Kenneth Clarke talking sense or something ?

Clarke is one of the few Tories that actually does seem to speak some sense, now and again. He's been pushing indicative votes in the house for a few weeks now, and been pretty much ignored by May.

zapitastas · 13-03-2019 9:25pm

devnull wrote: »

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1105924171857580033?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1105924171857580033&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Flive-government-to-publish-details-of-no-deal-brexit-plans-11663829

No deal vote tomorrow will delay Brexit until end of June, if passed.

If all of the rest today the countries that make up the EU agree to it

Water John · 13-03-2019 9:28pm

Tory MP makes the good point that TM never put her red lines to Parliament.

An Ciarraioch · 13-03-2019 9:29pm

devnull wrote: »

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1105924171857580033?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1105924171857580033&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Flive-government-to-publish-details-of-no-deal-brexit-plans-11663829

No deal vote tomorrow will delay Brexit until end of June, if passed.

Almost certain UK will have to take part in the European elections - a longer extension will be requested if the WA doesn't pass by today week.

trashcan · 13-03-2019 9:29pm

Imreoir2 wrote: »

I think the EU should be a little more subtle than that, don't make it harder for your opposit number to do what you want them to do. Allow an extnesion with good grace, the problems the UK faces won't go away in a few months. Once they extend they will never build up the nerve to go for a no-deal. It may take a few extensions to get there, but once the 29th of March passes with no Brexit then I think Brexit is well and truely dead.

I was talking to an English guy while on Holidays in Austria in January. He was anti Brexit, and convinced that it wouldn't happen. A bad dream was how he described it. Much like your analysis, he foresaw extensions, delays and it dying a natural death. Could well happen. They will have dodged a serious bullet if so.

blackwhite · 13-03-2019 9:29pm

All the MPs calling for indicative votes now, but not one willing to point out that these were the internal discussions the UK Gov and the HOC should have been hammering out 12 bloody months ago

Shelga · 13-03-2019 9:32pm

Seriously, what did May think was going to happen? She never engaged with any MPs outside the Tory party, despite knowing she had to get her deal through parliament. The SNP were completely ignored from the beginning, despite trying to speak to her about how to proceed.

She is single-handedly to blame for how badly this has gone. It was never going to go well, but it didn’t have to be this farcical. She should be utterly ashamed of what she has done to her country.

devnull · 13-03-2019 9:35pm

Tomorrow's vote will be specifically worded to say it will be a one off extension if her negotiated deal is put on the table and is passed this time around.

If it is not passed then there will have to be an indication of giving a valid reason for an extension to the European Union before extending to June 30th.

CelticRambler · 13-03-2019 9:36pm

blackwhite wrote: »

All the MPs calling for indicative votes now, but not one willing to point out that these were the internal discussions the UK Gov and the HOC should have been hammering out 12 bloody months ago

Ah, it no longer needs to be said.

I think the more interesting development is that there's obviously no longer any role for the DUP in the business of government. When you have ministers ignoring a three-line whip, there's nothing that a handful of trouble-making Paddies can do that can make things worse for Thersea May.

PropJoe10 · 13-03-2019 9:37pm

Shelga wrote: »

Seriously, what did May think was going to happen? She never engaged with any MPs outside the Tory party, despite knowing she had to get her deal through parliament. The SNP were completely ignored from the beginning, despite trying to speak to her about how to proceed.

She is single-handedly to blame for how badly this has gone. It was never going to go well, but it didn’t have to be this farcical. She should be utterly ashamed of what she has done to her country.

She spent far too much time trying to pander to the DUP and the ERG, and too little time trying to actually work with parliament and to figure out what parliament would support - something else that Kenneth Clarke pointed out about a month ago now, but was ignored. I've never been a fan of Clarke over the years but if they'd listened to some of his suggestions over the last 2-3 months, they probably wouldn't be in as dire a situation as they're in right now.

Gizmo55 · 13-03-2019 9:42pm

I can only see a second referendum. Honestly, I don't see anything else.

bob mcbob · 13-03-2019 9:43pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

What has Kenneth Clarke done for Jacob reese mog to include his name with the SNP ? I heard him say that on sky news between votes tonight. Is Kenneth Clarke talking sense or something ?

Ken Clarke calls ERG "the right wing English nationalist party".
So yes, a lot of sense.

Synode · 13-03-2019 9:44pm

Gizmo55 wrote: »

I can only see a second referendum. Honestly, I don't see anything else.

I can't see the EU giving an extension for anything else

Leroy42 · 13-03-2019 9:46pm

A 2nd ref for what? Who would actually campaign for remain at this point?

dresden8 · 13-03-2019 9:46pm

Are the Brits really voting to extend Article 50 or does the official wording mention "request" an extension?

lawred2 · 13-03-2019 9:47pm

devnull wrote: »

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1105924171857580033?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1105924171857580033&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Flive-government-to-publish-details-of-no-deal-brexit-plans-11663829

No deal vote tomorrow will delay Brexit until end of June, if passed.

well they'll have to find agreement in the EU for that

An Ciarraioch · 13-03-2019 9:50pm

dresden8 wrote: »

Are the Brits really voting to extend Article 50 or does the official wording mention "request" an extension?

They can only request one from the 27.

Havockk · 13-03-2019 9:51pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

A 2nd ref for what? Who would actually campaign for remain at this point?

Given the state of British politics and society at the present time I am terrified that the potential for leave to win a 2nd ref is high. No one can know how dirty they could get or if the remain side would be as useless as last time. Where would that leave the situation? Hardly bears thinking about.

Beechwoodspark · 13-03-2019 9:52pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

A 2nd ref for what? Who would actually campaign for remain at this point?

I’d say most of the Tory and Labour will campaign for remain.

Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

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