Another American backed coup happening in Venezuela

ilkhanid · 26-02-2019 2:49pm

Gatling wrote: »

Parts of the population starving meanwhile mundro seems be very well fed -obese even yet he and his minions aren't suffering food and money shortages .

The generals aren't suffering from malnutrition either....but then they're not paid in Venezuelan currency.

MFPM wrote: »

Firtsly I'm not sure one can characterise Maduro as a dictator per se, he did stand for election and yes there were irregularaties in the votung process but that doesn't make him a dictator.

No, what makes him a dictator is ignoring the country's Parliament when he dislikes the result of elections and setting up a new, packed assembly which rubberstamps his decisions. In any case, one can take it that any country-for example, Iran, Mubarak's Egypt-where the military own and run large sections of the economy is a despotism.

Gatling · 26-02-2019 3:51pm

ilkhanid wrote: »

The generals aren't suffering from malnutrition either....but then they're not paid in Venezuelan currency.

Rubels

Das Reich · 04-03-2019 6:03pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

There seems to be great concern for the 'poor' of Venezuela but its reassuring that Brazil is coming to the rescue with 'humanitarian' aid for Venezuela.
In case anyone needs reminding Brazil has slums and shantytowns (Favelas) as bad as anything in Asia, with the infant mortality and diseases because of the lack of sanitation in these slums you would think Brazil should be looking a bit closer to home.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-47300962

Lol. Brazil is the first producer of almost anything. Venezuela import a lot from Brazil, their government didn't used their oil money to improve their farming production. Not only Venezuela but ALL arab countries are dependant of Brazilian food. Even some African countries use their oil to import food from Brazil, and some countries like Angola or Mozambique have a lot of Brazilians that produce a large percentage of their GDP.

Das Reich · 04-03-2019 6:16pm

theguzman wrote: »

Bolsonaro in Brazil will most likely launch a ground invasion of Venezuela to get rid of Socialism there. If there is one thing that man hates it is the left.

He did grow up in a poor and small town (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldorado,_São_Paulo) and the richest family there had a big farm that exploited the workers, and they were socialists and helped a communist militia that was hided in the town during the military regime. This militia used to kill 18 years old conscripts and after hided. Then Bolsonaro entered in the army, that's why his personal hate towards the leftists.

Cheerful Spring · 11-03-2019 12:26am

Important information just released by the New York Times.Footage Contradicts U.S. Claim That Maduro Burned Aid Convoy
Video. Bravo the New York Times.

False narrative exposed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/10/world/americas/venezuela-aid-fire-video.html

But there is a problem: The opposition itself, not Mr. Maduro’s men, appears to have set the cargo alight accidentally.

Unpublished footage obtained by The New York Times and previously released tapes — including footage released by the Colombian government, which has blamed Mr. Maduro for the fire — allowed for a reconstruction of the incident. It suggests that a Molotov cocktail thrown by an antigovernment protester was the most likely trigger for the blaze.

Many of Mr. Maduro’s critics claim that he ordered medication set on fire during the border standoff — even though many of his people have died of medicine shortages in hospitals.

Yet the claim about a shipment of medicine, too, appears to be unsubstantiated, according to videos and interviews.

Cheerful Spring · 11-03-2019 12:29am

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/09/world/americas/venezuela-power-protests.html

Venezuela power was shut down over the Weekend. The government claims a cyber attack on their grid.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-10/as-venezuela-s-lights-flicker-guaido-seeks-an-opening

ilkhanid · 12-03-2019 3:43pm

Much more likely is the system failing due to lack of maintenance and a shortage of qualified personnel willing to maintain it. Authoritarian regimes like to represent their failings as the work of outside agencies or acts of sabotage.

Thargor · 12-03-2019 7:20pm

No electricity for electronic payments and cash worth less than toilet paper, it must be a pure barter economy by now and that cant last, cant even use cryptocurrency with no power. Wouldnt be surprised to turn on Sky News some morning to hear the shooting has started...

https://twitter.com/Xentagz/status/1105386714577686529

Dohnjoe · 12-03-2019 10:17pm

I like how the pretext of this whole thread is that some imperialist power was trying to destroy Venezuela

Apparently they were beaten to the punch by Chavez and then Maduro who have flushed the country down the toilet faster than anyone could have possibly imagined

James Brown · 13-03-2019 1:25pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I like how the pretext of this whole thread is that some imperialist power was trying to destroy Venezuela

Apparently they were beaten to the punch by Chavez and then Maduro who have flushed the country down the toilet faster than anyone could have possibly imagined

Not quite. It's about the U.S. passing off supporting or encouraging a coup as spreading democracy IMO. No need in defending Chavez or Maduro to have that opinion.

Dohnjoe · 13-03-2019 2:03pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Not quite. It's about the U.S. passing off supporting or encouraging a coup as spreading democracy IMO. No need in defending Chavez or Maduro to have that opinion.

If the US said absolutely nothing whatsoever - Venezuela would be in this situation

It's irrelevant anyway, because all the ultra cynics do is just whip out the time machine, and delve into the past to blame their favorite targets

James Brown · 13-03-2019 3:07pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

If the US said absolutely nothing whatsoever - Venezuela would be in this situation

It's irrelevant anyway, because all the ultra cynics do is just whip out the time machine, and delve into the past to blame their favorite targets

But the thread is about US involvement in Venezuela not just Venezuela.

You don't need any time machine to discuss US interference in foreign situations. It can't be dismissed as merely talk on US involvement because people are picking on them, just 'cause.

Dohnjoe · 13-03-2019 3:49pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

But the thread is about US involvement in Venezuela not just Venezuela.

Nope, it's about bashing the US using whatever proxy current affairs situation, e.g. Venezuela

I'm not fan of Trump, but these threads are always the same

James Brown · 13-03-2019 4:37pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Nope, it's about bashing the US using whatever proxy current affairs situation, e.g. Venezuela

I'm not fan of Trump, but these threads are always the same

A thread for discussing US involvement in what the op terms a coup, will have some criticism of the US.

Would anyone be interested in a 'discussion' regarding US foreign policy as it relates to Venezuela where the US are not criticised? Or one on Trump where it's only positives?
If you're talking unfounded criticism, that's fair enough.

Manic Moran · 13-03-2019 4:53pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

A thread for discussing US involvement in what the op terms a coup, will have some criticism of the US.

Would anyone be interested in a 'discussion' regarding US foreign policy as it relates to Venezuela where the US are not criticised? Or one on Trump where it's only positives?
If you're talking unfounded criticism, that's fair enough.

It needs to be well-founded criticism, though. Criticism of US interference with the running of a nation as a matter of general policy would, indeed, be valid on a thread like this. Criticizing the US for the situation Venezuela is in right now, however, requires a little more standard of evidence than has been presented which seems to indicate that the Venezuelan government dug themselves into their hole without any great assistance from anyone else.

There are viable discussions to be had on questions like
"Should the US get involved supporting a coup in Venezuela?"
"Should the US actively get involved itself in the coup?"
"If the coup happens, supported by the US or not, and the shooting starts, should the US get involved and maybe put a stop to the fighting?"

There are good arguments for criticizing US actions on all three of those questions.

eire4 · 18-03-2019 3:43pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Nope, it's about bashing the US using whatever proxy current affairs situation, e.g. Venezuela

I'm not fan of Trump, but these threads are always the same

To be fair its hard not to bash the US given their long history of over throwing governments in South and Central America they do not like and either installing puppets or supporting right wing regimes which will be compliant. The overthrowing of Allende in Chile and the military dictatorship in Argentina right at the top of that list. More recently Honduras would be another example.

Notorious · 23-03-2019 1:16pm

I thought this video from the New York Times was a nice piece of investigative journalism. It was as simple as two videos being analysed and with some common sense a conclusion was drawn.

The initial story was that Maduro's forces had burned out trucks filled with aid. The opposition threw it up as a big news story and it managed to reach the twitter pages of big names like John Bolton and Mike Pompeo. The reality was that an anti-Maduro protester flung a molotov cocktail which mistakenly hit an aid-filled truck instead of its intended target.

Dohnjoe · 23-03-2019 3:02pm

Notorious wrote: »

I thought this video from the New York Times was a nice piece of investigative journalism. It was as simple as two videos being analysed and with some common sense a conclusion was drawn.

The initial story was that Maduro's forces had burned out trucks filled with aid. The opposition threw it up as a big news story and it managed to reach the twitter pages of big names like John Bolton and Mike Pompeo. The reality was that an anti-Maduro protester flung a molotov cocktail which mistakenly hit an aid-filled truck instead of its intended target.

Indeed but this is just smallfry tit-for-tat stuff

The country has been systematically destroyed by disastrous economic policies spanning two leaders (Chavez and Maduro), the latter of which has been manipulating and deconstructing the structure of government to keep himself in power

A populist who knows how to manipulate the low information voters - whilst at the same time destroying the country (carefully blaming it on foreign boogeymen, the opposition, etc)

It's been painful to watch all this from the outside

Cheerful Spring · 27-03-2019 4:25pm

Russian troops have deployed to Venezuela. More expected to arrive in the coming weeks. Trump says all options on the table to get them out. Good luck with this Trump. Are you really going to start a war with Russia over Venezuela?

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/0326/1038826-venezuela-russia-deployment/

ArchXStanton · 27-03-2019 4:40pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Russian troops have deployed to Venezuela. More expected to arrive in the coming weeks. Trump says all options on the table to get them out. Good luck with this Trump. Are you really going to start a war with Russia over Venezuela?

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/0326/1038826-venezuela-russia-deployment/

Unreal, they have the neck to try tell another state who they can have in their country, its OK for us to have troops stationed in your hemisphere but don't dare do it in ours.... And as usual the threat "all options are on the table!"

Cheerful Spring · 27-03-2019 4:42pm

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuelan-politics-usa-idUSKCN1R81OQ

Trump doesn't look happy on videos online. This could escalate fast to a new Cuban missile crisis. It depends on what kind of military hardware the Russians are bringing and likely to bring in to help Maduro.

Cheerful Spring · 27-03-2019 4:52pm

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Unreal, they have the neck to try tell another state who they can have in their country, its OK for us to have troops stationed in your hemisphere but don't dare do it in ours.... And as usual the threat "all options are on the table!"

This is always the way though. The Russians are likely doing this as payback for the west interference near their border.

Yep, its scary stuff we got very close to nuclear war over Cuba in 60s. Russia is not sitting back now and letting America overthrow its ally in South America. It only going to get worse from here on out. Russia is now actively supporting the Maduro regime with Russian troops and weapons

ArchXStanton · 27-03-2019 5:03pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

This is always the way though. The Russians are likely doing this as payback for the west interference near their border.

Yep, its scary stuff we got very close to nuclear war over Cuba in 60s. Russia is not sitting back now and letting America overthrow its ally in South America. It only going to get worse from here on out. Russia is now actively supporting the Maduro regime with Russian troops and weapons

Its the sheer hypocrisy of it on so many levels, I wouldn't even know were to begin, what happened with Guaido? Did his coup fizzle out?

blackwhite · 27-03-2019 5:11pm

So the posters on here who were outraged at US “interference” (that they couldn’t provide any evidence of) are now cheerleading direct Russian military intervention?

Sounds consistent at least :rolleyes:

eire4 · 27-03-2019 5:14pm

blackwhite wrote: »

So the posters on here who were outraged at US “interference” (that they couldn’t provide any evidence of) are now cheerleading direct Russian military intervention?

Sounds consistent at least :rolleyes:

Not me. The people of Venezuela are getting abused and squeezed by both the Americans and Russians at this point just horrible to see and clearly shows what disgusting countries both the US and Russia are when it comes to their foreign policy.

TeaBagMania · 27-03-2019 5:33pm

its easily remedied, let the citizens of Venezuela have a vote for who they want as a leader... managed by an outside neutral entity like Switzerland.

problem solved

LOL, like Manduro would ever let that happen

Irish Praetorian · 27-03-2019 6:05pm

eire4 wrote: »

Not me. The people of Venezuela are getting abused and squeezed by both the Americans and Russians at this point just horrible to see and clearly shows what disgusting countries both the US and Russia are when it comes to their foreign policy.

To be fair to the Russians (which I rarely get to do which is why it's so fun XD) and the US, I don't think blame cant be laid at their feet for the dire economic straits Venezuela now finds itself in.

As for Russian troops in Venezuela, well I don't think anyone on here can accuse me of being an apologist for Putin's actions in recent years, so it should be fairly clear to all that this is very much a non-issue. There are no shortage of countries in the world that have invited in a US military presence, it's not entirely unthinkable that other nations might invite Russian troops. The key difference is that while Russia almost exclusively garrisons dictatorial hell-holes in order to prop up their regimes, the US only does so maybe half or a third (I'm looking at you Saudi Arabia) of the time.

So to re-emphasize, I see no problem with Russian troops in Venezuela; it might be more useful if the regime could try to do better when it comes to seeing to the needs of its citizens but what the hell. At the very least it might demonstrate to other nations the dangers of electing parties with bonkers economic policies, lathered in a medley of anti-US rhetoric.

Gatling · 27-03-2019 7:55pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

This is always the way though. The Russians are likely doing this as payback for the west interference near their border.

What interference is this cheerful , annexations , illegal occupations of sovereign states , threatening Baltic States ?

Gatling · 27-03-2019 8:04pm

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

To be fair to the Russians (which I rarely get to do which is why it's so fun XD) and the US, I don't think blame cant be laid at their feet for the dire economic straits Venezuela now finds itself in.

As for Russian troops in Venezuela, well I don't think anyone on here can accuse me of being an apologist for Putin's actions in recent years, so it should be fairly clear to all that this is very much a non-issue.

100 russians Vs the population of Venezuela backed up by their neighbours and allies and the US certainly nothing to get excited about ,
The incident in Syria where several hundred russians and Syrians attacked a Kurdish area who were backed up with American forces ended in complete disaster that left hundreds of Russians dead .

Chances are they could be planning the evacuation of meduro and any cash and gold reserves he has access to ,

Let's be honest here this isn't the Cuban missile crisis or other nonsense being bandied around ,
Putin should tread carefully he's not at currently the most popular person in Russia at the moment

ArchXStanton · 27-03-2019 8:38pm

Gatling wrote: »

What interference is this cheerful , annexations , illegal occupations of sovereign states , threatening Baltic States ?

Just like the US illegally occupying a part of Syria Gatling? You still haven't provided that link

Brussels Sprout · 28-03-2019 3:23pm

The following are not mutually exclusive

The USA have a terrible record historically in Latin America
The USA have been behind disastrous regime changes in Iraq and Libya
Donald Trump is an unstable conman
Venezuela is in a hell of its own making through sheer incompetence by its rulers – nothing to do with the USA (for once)

Cheerful Spring · 01-04-2019 10:50pm

Gatling wrote: »

100 russians Vs the population of Venezuela backed up by their neighbours and allies and the US certainly nothing to get excited about ,
The incident in Syria where several hundred russians and Syrians attacked a Kurdish area who were backed up with American forces ended in complete disaster that left hundreds of Russians dead .

Chances are they could be planning the evacuation of meduro and any cash and gold reserves he has access to ,

Let's be honest here this isn't the Cuban missile crisis or other nonsense being bandied around ,
Putin should tread carefully he's not at currently the most popular person in Russia at the moment

Obviously, it not yet at this stage. Nato places offensive weapons near Russia border- then Putin may start sending similar weapons to Venezuela. Right now they're not much incentive to send Russian missile systems to Venezuela. The threat is still unclear and not sure what Trump is planning to do change the status quo.

They were Russian mercenaries, not the regular Russian army who got killed. The estimate is about 100 or less but you always overestimate.

Gatling · 02-04-2019 12:28am

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Obviously, it not yet at this stage.

They were Russian mercenaries, not the regular Russian army who got killed. The estimate is about 100 or less but you always overestimate.

Not at any stage and the figures were put at the 600 russians killed ,
Only the Kremlin are saying less for obvious reasons or those whom believe everything the Kremlin spews out .

But yes Venezuela is a whole different situation no chemical weapons or massacres by meduro forces yet !

100 russians won't be making much difference to the ongoing situation

Manic Moran · 02-04-2019 3:38pm

Gatling wrote: »

100 russians won't be making much difference to the ongoing situation

My guess is it's an advance party. You can't just fly an airmobile unit somewhere in an emergency and expect them to be put straight into the line. Well, you can, but it takes a number of chances. But if you have an advance party in place, you already have relationships built in the command structure, know where you're going to get food, water, transport, lodging, and have personnel who know what the ground looks like before they have to do it 'live'. At the same time, as you observe, it's a small enough detachment that it won't raise too many red flags in the meantime.

The alternative possibility which comes to mind is that they're a SIGING/ELINT detachment, basically in an intelligence role to figure out what the opposition is going through by use of technological intercept.

Or, maybe they are simple trainers for the Venezuelan military which has been purchasing equipment from Russia recently. Using some currency which presumably isn't Venezuelan.

Cheerful Spring · 30-04-2019 11:42am

Coup is underway. Guaido forces and Maduro forces are fighting in the streets.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2019/apr/30/venezuela-opposition-leader-juan-guaido-claims-coup-underway-live-news

Cheerful Spring · 30-04-2019 12:53pm

Heavy gunfire now near a Venezulela army base in La Carlota , i have seen the video online and you can hear it. People are on the streets too.

Cheerful Spring · 30-04-2019 12:56pm

https://twitter.com/i/status/1123207312251006978

Quin_Dub · 30-04-2019 1:07pm

Please don't use this thread as a blog.

If you have opinions or comments , please post them , but one line updates or twitter dumps are not acceptable.

James Brown · 30-04-2019 1:47pm

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Just like the US illegally occupying a part of Syria Gatling? You still haven't provided that link

We know they support Israels occupation of the Golan heights, mind some nice oil deposits there.

Once again it's the poor average person on the street who'll pay in blood for these chess games. There's many routes outside of force where this could have been tackled. You don't give ultimatums right off the bat. Saddened to see Guaido talk of military support, peoples champion or a stooge with eyes on being the latest dictator in the US pocket? He better be nice to Trump if/when he gets in or he'll quickly be demonised by the US lovers of democracy.

Cheerful Spring · 30-04-2019 2:02pm

The coup is definately underway now. I have seen video online of arrests by men in uniform and shots fired by the two groups. There know going back to the normal now. Either the coup fails or succeeds. Guaido will have to be arrested or killed now.

We have to see what movements the US makes will they allow Guaido coup to fail?

eire4 · 30-04-2019 2:08pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The coup is definately underway now. I have seen video online of arrests by men in uniform and shots fired by the two groups. There know going back to the normal now. Either the coup fails or succeeds. Guaido will have to be arrested or killed now.

We have to see what movements the US makes will they allow Guaido coup to fail?

They will as they usually do work through various cover agencies or even private firms to make sure their man in Guaido takes power and then as they have done in so many countries while not officially getting their hands dirty in case they get caught the Americans will have another government beholden to them in power in South America.

Larbre34 · 30-04-2019 2:20pm

As it happens I'm watching an old West Wing episode on Sky Atlantic as we speak..

Just before the last ad break, White House chief of staff Leo McGarry is dancing slowly with his partner on the terrace of the west wing on the night of the President's reelection, when he is interrupted and updated briefly about a developing situation by a Colonel from the national security staff. He returns through the french doors to his date and says..

"Can you hang on for a bit, theres about to be a coup in Venezuela...."

MadYaker · 30-04-2019 6:28pm

Sounds like it's really kicking off, did the Americans light the match?

TeaBagMania · 30-04-2019 6:35pm

dont worry, china and russia will be along shortly to guarantee the communist way of life

Gatling · 30-04-2019 7:20pm

TeaBagMania wrote: »

dont worry, china and russia will be along shortly to guarantee the communist way of life

Considering he's (mudro) owes both tens of billions depending who you believe ,we know there is 100 russian military advisors on the ground with as many as 10,000 Cuban forces again depending on who you believe then it might be a long wait for real change unless neighbour's decide to get involved with military intervention

Manic Moran · 30-04-2019 7:35pm

MadYaker wrote: »

Sounds like it's really kicking off, did the Americans light the match?

I believe Venezualans have been capable of creating fire without external assistance for many centuries now.

eire4 · 30-04-2019 8:44pm

MadYaker wrote: »

Sounds like it's really kicking off, did the Americans light the match?

It would not surprise me at all. The Americans have a long history especially in Latin America of using thríd parties and covert means to unseat presidents who do not do what they are told and replace them with ones that will follow orders from Washington.

theguzman · 30-04-2019 9:59pm

eire4 wrote: »

It would not surprise me at all. The Americans have a long history especially in Latin America of using thríd parties and covert means to unseat presidents who do not do what they are told and replace them with ones that will follow orders from Washington.

Things can't get any worse for the ordinary Venezuelan who is forced to live off $8 per month, they are hoping for Trump to launch air strikes and that there is a military incursion by the Brazilians in the South.

Cheerful Spring · 30-04-2019 11:05pm

eire4 wrote: »

They will as they usually do work through various cover agencies or even private firms to make sure their man in Guaido takes power and then as they have done in so many countries while not officially getting their hands dirty in case they get caught the Americans will have another government beholden to them in power in South America.

Its highly likely the United States has a military plan to overthrow Maduro. I expect some movement from them, if the coup is not working and Guaido captured.

There no way Bolton, Trump and Pompeo are going to let Maduro stay in power.

Cheerful Spring · 30-04-2019 11:13pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

I believe Venezualans have been capable of creating fire without external assistance for many centuries now.

Trump, Pompeo and Bolton are now making threats on twitter. There no doubt it them who is guiding this coup.

The Venezuelan military has not jumped ship so the coup is doomed to fail. The only left with one option to provide military support to Guaido. I be amazed if Guaido is not arrested or shot in coming hours and days too. Can you leave him there when he openly revolting against the government?

Another American backed coup happening in Venezuela

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