Another American backed coup happening in Venezuela

Good loser

Brian? wrote: »

I’m pretty sure the US placed financial sanctions on Venezuala under Obama. They can’t access debt markets or sell gold or other minerals to the US or any company that operates in the US. The one thing they can sell is oil, which the US is a sponge for.

The Obama administration imposed sanctions on named individuals at the top of the Govt for corruption, drug supply etc. Not on the State of Venezuela.

Good loser

Thargor wrote: »

Oh wow thanks for explaining that complicated concept :rolleyes:

Im sure all the reports of her being the richest woman in Venezuela and all those estates she owns for no discernible reason are just imperialist propaganda.

Not alone Venezuela Thargor. She is the richest woman in South America.

James Brown

Edgware wrote: »

Its terrible how brainwashed the so called Irish Left are. Whether its Palestine, Venezuela etc they all parrot the same old cliches spun out by the Intelligentsia in First Arts

Can you honestly not say the same for the right, (libtard, cuck, snowflake, lock her up, loony left, pinkos, McCarthyism, blacklisting)?
You don't need to be any particular side to see manipulation for greed not to mention thieving butchers, IMO, the Israeli regime.
A very good example might be most of the posts on this very thread where discussion on the US doing what they do is more about side stories on the left, your post included.
We continue to do business with China and Russia, two bastions of democracy and fair play. If there was money being made off Venezuela Trump would be all over Maduro and supporting him. The idea the US gives a toss about the average Venezuelan can be answered by Trump's intent on building a wall.

TeaBagMania

Brian? wrote: »

This is a well trotted our line by the pro gun lobby in the US. It’s nonsense.

Yeah because in most circumstances its true.

nonsense you say? lol yeah you'd like to think so.

come on Brian, stop acting like a semantic D-Bag

Gringo180

How did Chavez's daughter accumulate all that wealth? Is she really a billionaire? Ive googled her and her wealth and only links from the Daily Mail, The Sun and Fox News report her as apparently being a billionaire? Three off the worst rags and media outlets on that planet.

Spannerplank

CPTM wrote: »

Hi Spannerplank - I've a huge amount of connections and family currently in Venezuela. Luckily none of them are eating rats or flamingos at the moment. But think of the bottom of our society, I mean the very bottom. How are they living in our first world country?

Mass starvation doesn't necessarily happen like the infamous Ethiopian cases wherein people wake up and suddenly there is no food. It can happen over time, which is the case in Venezuela. People are still working in banks you know, the police are still getting up. Kids are going to school. Even restaurants are open and bakeries. If you're looking for an Ethiopian epidemic, you won't find it in Venezuela. The starvation that's happening is because people are eating 50% of their daily recommended calorie intake, a lot of bread and water, and maybe some cheese. Very little nutrition. Kids are growing, but the videos you can find online will show you teenagers that look like 6 year olds. Remember the different levels of society, and with starvation in Venezuela we're mainly talking about the bottom half, which is enveloping more of their society everyday.

The problem I have with the media is that they make people like you question everything even when there is clear evidence of a problem. The media's general approach to glorifying everything now has you implying in this thread that you don't believe any of it, and begging for videos and, when you get them, validity of the videos and pictures. You have lost so much faith in public information, that you can only believe things when you physically travel and see them with your own eyes.

What I would ask you to do is forget about using some parts of the media and online videos as a starting point. You are using them as an input to your perspective of Venezuela and you're right - that's not the correct approach.

Think about a far left regime and the history of them. Think about passports not being issued to civilians so they can't work if they leave. In spite of that, think about the mass exodus from the country (millions). Think about the treacherous journeys that everyday people are making with their kids to get over the freezing Venezuelan mountains. Think about the protests and amount of different world powers that are backing the end of Maduro's presidency.

Can't your mind see (without videos) that perhaps people are leaving behind a desperate place? Now, once you have reached that conclusion, take a look at the videos online - Are the bottom half of society eating rats? Yes, of course they are. What else would make you pack up your belongings, take your kids over a freezing mountain, and move to another country in which you have no access to work or social welfare?

On the surface you seem to make some salient points.

You talk of lack of confidence in the Fourth Estate.

Let's address that initially. When lies or falsehoods have been circulated, one of two scenaria are at play. Either it was a mistake or it was intentional.

If it was an honest mistake then the medium is obliged (if they value their integrity) to publish an apology and an explanation. If they do not do this then the lie was intentional.

I have seen this aforementioned sleight of hand and pen very frequently. And when I correlate it to past lapses of journalistic honesty the observation has been met with contempt.


I would ask you some very easy to answer questions, namely:

What caused this shortage of food?
Was there a crop failure?
Are the borders with Venezuela sealed so no food can make it in in the absence of basic foodstuffs?

Spannerplank

Can anybody see that the propaganda is not actually working?

The rats and flamingos stories haven't worked?

Eric Cartman

Spannerplank wrote: »

Can anybody see that the propaganda is not actually working?

The rats and flamingos stories haven't worked?

The only propaganda is the anti capitalist cartoons printed on the CLAP bag's handed out by maduros goons .

oscarBravo

Spannerplank wrote: »

Can anybody see that the propaganda is not actually working?

The rats and flamingos stories haven't worked?

Just so I'm clear: it's your assertion that nobody is starving in Venezuela, and that any claims of people going hungry are just propaganda?

Do you have any actual evidence for this assertion, or is it just a strongly-held belief?

splinter65

Spannerplank wrote: »

Can anybody see that the propaganda is not actually working?

The rats and flamingos stories haven't worked?

Are you saying that the pictures of the crowds protesting Maduro are faked? That the personal testimonies of Venezuelans living in other parts of the world are lies?

Spannerplank

Now let's talk about that 777 that flew in to spirit away 20 gone of gold to Russia.

It never happened.

Let's talk about those two idiot Venezuelan military defectors who begged for American help. These guys didn't even have the right designs on their uniforms.

Utterly staged, and very poorly so.

Gatling

Spannerplank wrote: »

Now let's talk about that 777 that flew in to spirit away 20 gone of gold to Russia.

It never happened.

Said who exactly

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

No personal abuse please.

Spannerplank

Gringo180 wrote: »

How did Chavez's daughter accumulate all that wealth? Is she really a billionaire? Ive googled her and her wealth and only links from the Daily Mail, The Sun and Fox News report her as apparently being a billionaire? Three off the worst rags and media outlets on that planet.

It's very difficult to accumulate 4 billion in a few months. She must have been at least a multi millionairess the years ago. Why the recent outrage?

It's almost as strange as saying Assad is gassing kids and dropping barrel bombs on orphanages.

But he could have done that 20 years ago if he was such a nutjob. Why now.?

Why did Maduro just start starving his people?

Eric Cartman

Spannerplank wrote: »

It's very difficult to accumulate 4 billion in a few months. She must have been at least a multi millionairess the years ago. Why the recent outrage?

It's almost as strange as saying Assad is gassing kids and dropping barrel bombs on orphanages.

But he could have done that 20 years ago if he was such a nutjob. Why now.?

Why did Maduro just start starving his people?

Chavez was starving people too. Its the natural cycle of any socialist dictatorship, they get greedy, hoard resources, the people become more dependant on the government......starvation.
Maduro just made a problem worse, like a lot worse. North korea 'starves' its people, but not 1/3rd of them eating less than 1 meal a day on average starve.

Topgear on Dave

LAst year I had a Venezuelan colleague visit our office in Ireland from our HQ in Europe.

He told us all about it over lunch, I dont remember all the details but the country is a mess, he blamed the government and he had no intention of returning home.

If he comes back I'll get him on here to debate Spannerplank and spanners can tell him how he's wrong.

Spannerplank

Gringo180 wrote: »

How did Chavez's daughter accumulate all that wealth? Is she really a billionaire? Ive googled her and her wealth and only links from the Daily Mail, The Sun and Fox News report her as apparently being a billionaire? Three off the worst rags and media outlets on that planet.

It's very difficult to accumulate 4 billion in a few months. She must have been at least a multi millionairess the years ago. Why the recent outrage?

It's almost as strange as saying Assad is gassing kids and dropping barrel bombs on orphanages.

But he could have done that 20 years ago if he was such a nutjob. Why now.?

Why did Maduro just start starving his people?

Spannerplank

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

LAst year I had a Venezuelan colleague visit our office in Ireland from our HQ in Europe.

He told us all about it over lunch, I dont remember all the details but the country is a mess, he blamed the government and he had no intention of returning home.

If he comes back I'll get him on here to debate Spannerplank and spanners can tell him how he's wrong.

You don't remember all the details but the country is a mess.

Thanks for that, Reggie.

Spannerplank

Nobody be!ieves the Venezuela farce. There have even been idiots pretending to be military defectors asking for outside help and the stupid losers who faked it couldn't even get the uniforms right.

Reports of Russians parachuting in to take over.

Such bollocks.

Gatling

Spannerplank wrote: »

There have even been idiots pretending to be military defectors asking for outside help and the stupid losers who faked it couldn't even get the uniforms right.

Links or any other proof at all

Thargor

Spannerplank wrote: »

It's very difficult to accumulate 4 billion in a few months. She must have been at least a multi millionairess the years ago. Why the recent outrage?

It's almost as strange as saying Assad is gassing kids and dropping barrel bombs on orphanages.

But he could have done that 20 years ago if he was such a nutjob. Why now.?

Why did Maduro just start starving his people?

Wtf are you rambling on about?

splinter65

Spannerplank wrote: »

Nobody be!ieves the Venezuela farce. There have even been idiots pretending to be military defectors asking for outside help and the stupid losers who faked it couldn't even get the uniforms right.

Reports of Russians parachuting in to take over.

Such bollocks.

So in other words, the socialist experiment in Venezuela is a total success, it’s all US propaganda and fake news, it’s just that everyone has been taken in by this nonsense, again.

Cheerful Spring

Good loser wrote: »

What do you mean when you say America is punishing this country economically for a decade?

Until a fortnight ago - when the US introduced an oil embargo - it was the only country actually paying them for the oil they got.

You see the full list of US sanctions imposed on the economy in this link, over a decade or more
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10715.pdf

Jimmy Garlic

Now that Simon Coveney like a good little lad has added Ireland onto the list of countries supporting a coup d'etat in Venezuela at the behest of the US who chose Venezuela's self declared "intrim president". The US still hasn't got its way by using punitive sanctions/ economic warfare against Venezuela, so now it's time to step up a gear. Echos of Iraq 2003 and Libya 2011 ring in the air, another country in the crosshairs of the regime change machine that pretends to care about democracy and human rights. Time to stop the pretence and put an end to this myth about Irish neutrality that a lot of people still buy into.

breatheme

It's not a coup d'état. It's constitutional.

Jimmy Garlic

breatheme wrote: »

It's not a coup d'état. It's constitutional.

The office of president in Venezuela was not vacant so it is not in fact constitutional.

breatheme

Not quite as black and white as that:

Serán faltas absolutas del Presidente o Presidenta de la República: su muerte, su renuncia, o su destitución decretada por sentencia del Tribunal Supremo de Justicia; su incapacidad física o mental permanente certificada por una junta médica designada por el Tribunal Supremo de Justicia y con aprobación de la Asamblea Nacional; el abandono del cargo, declarado como tal por la Asamblea Nacional, así como la revocación popular de su mandato. Cuando se produzca la falta absoluta del Presidente electo o Presidenta electa antes de tomar posesión, se procederá a una nueva elección universal, directa y secreta dentro de los treinta días consecutivos siguientes. Mientras se elige y toma posesión el nuevo Presidente o la nueva Presidenta, se encargará de la Presidencia de la República el Presidente o Presidenta de la Asamblea Nacional. Si la falta absoluta del Presidente o la Presidenta de la República se produce durante los primeros cuatro años del período constitucional, se procederá a una nueva elección universal, directa y secreta dentro de los treinta días consecutivos siguientes. Mientras se elige y toma posesión el nuevo Presidente o la nueva Presidenta, se encargará de la Presidencia de la República el Vicepresidente Ejecutivo o la Vicepresidenta Ejecutiva. En los casos anteriores, el nuevo Presidente o Presidenta completará el período constitucional correspondiente. Si la falta absoluta se produce durante los últimos dos años del período constitucional, el Vicepresidente Ejecutivo o la Vicepresidenta Ejecutiva asumirá la Presidencia de la República hasta completar dicho período.

As well as:

Esta Constitución no perderá su vigencia si dejare de observarse por acto de fuerza o porque fuere derogada por cualquier otro medio distinto al previsto en ella. En tal eventualidad, todo ciudadano investido o ciudadana investida o no de autoridad, tendrá el deber de colaborar en el restablecimiento de su efectiva vigencia.

And finally:

El pueblo de Venezuela, fiel a su tradición republicana, a su lucha por la independencia, la paz y la libertad, desconocerá cualquier régimen, legislación o autoridad que contraríe los valores, principios y garantías democráticos o menoscabe los derechos humanos.

Those are articles 233, 333 and 350.

touts

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

The office of president in Venezuela was not vacant so it is not in fact constitutional.

Well constitutionally there were supposed to hold free and fair elections and Maduro didn't do that. Like most socialist governments when the people realise they were sold a con job and there really isn't "someone else" who will pay for it all then the socialists turned to violence and intimidation to hold onto power.

The Irish government is 100% correct and I would say morally required to stand up for democracy. If the likes of Maduro can get away with it then that will only embolden Irish socialists to try a similar con job on the Irish people.

Hoboo

Largest oil reserves in the world. US oil companies told to stop drilling and leave. What a coincidence, never saw this coming.

seamus

Ireland is acting 100% constitutionally in calling for all legal and peaceful means to be exhausted in resolving this issue.

As the elections are disputed, the most appropriate course of action is to call for Venezuelan law to be followed until a new election can be held.