Another American backed coup happening in Venezuela

ilkhanid · 26-02-2019 3:49pm

Gatling wrote: »

Parts of the population starving meanwhile mundro seems be very well fed -obese even yet he and his minions aren't suffering food and money shortages .

The generals aren't suffering from malnutrition either....but then they're not paid in Venezuelan currency.

MFPM wrote: »

Firtsly I'm not sure one can characterise Maduro as a dictator per se, he did stand for election and yes there were irregularaties in the votung process but that doesn't make him a dictator.

No, what makes him a dictator is ignoring the country's Parliament when he dislikes the result of elections and setting up a new, packed assembly which rubberstamps his decisions. In any case, one can take it that any country-for example, Iran, Mubarak's Egypt-where the military own and run large sections of the economy is a despotism.

Gatling · 26-02-2019 4:51pm

ilkhanid wrote: »

The generals aren't suffering from malnutrition either....but then they're not paid in Venezuelan currency.

Rubels

Das Reich · 04-03-2019 7:03pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

There seems to be great concern for the 'poor' of Venezuela but its reassuring that Brazil is coming to the rescue with 'humanitarian' aid for Venezuela.
In case anyone needs reminding Brazil has slums and shantytowns (Favelas) as bad as anything in Asia, with the infant mortality and diseases because of the lack of sanitation in these slums you would think Brazil should be looking a bit closer to home.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-47300962

Lol. Brazil is the first producer of almost anything. Venezuela import a lot from Brazil, their government didn't used their oil money to improve their farming production. Not only Venezuela but ALL arab countries are dependant of Brazilian food. Even some African countries use their oil to import food from Brazil, and some countries like Angola or Mozambique have a lot of Brazilians that produce a large percentage of their GDP.

Das Reich · 04-03-2019 7:16pm

theguzman wrote: »

Bolsonaro in Brazil will most likely launch a ground invasion of Venezuela to get rid of Socialism there. If there is one thing that man hates it is the left.

He did grow up in a poor and small town (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldorado,_São_Paulo) and the richest family there had a big farm that exploited the workers, and they were socialists and helped a communist militia that was hided in the town during the military regime. This militia used to kill 18 years old conscripts and after hided. Then Bolsonaro entered in the army, that's why his personal hate towards the leftists.

Cheerful Spring · 11-03-2019 1:26am

Important information just released by the New York Times.Footage Contradicts U.S. Claim That Maduro Burned Aid Convoy
Video. Bravo the New York Times.

False narrative exposed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/10/world/americas/venezuela-aid-fire-video.html

But there is a problem: The opposition itself, not Mr. Maduro’s men, appears to have set the cargo alight accidentally.

Unpublished footage obtained by The New York Times and previously released tapes — including footage released by the Colombian government, which has blamed Mr. Maduro for the fire — allowed for a reconstruction of the incident. It suggests that a Molotov cocktail thrown by an antigovernment protester was the most likely trigger for the blaze.

Many of Mr. Maduro’s critics claim that he ordered medication set on fire during the border standoff — even though many of his people have died of medicine shortages in hospitals.

Yet the claim about a shipment of medicine, too, appears to be unsubstantiated, according to videos and interviews.

Cheerful Spring · 11-03-2019 1:29am

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/09/world/americas/venezuela-power-protests.html

Venezuela power was shut down over the Weekend. The government claims a cyber attack on their grid.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-10/as-venezuela-s-lights-flicker-guaido-seeks-an-opening

ilkhanid · 12-03-2019 4:43pm

Much more likely is the system failing due to lack of maintenance and a shortage of qualified personnel willing to maintain it. Authoritarian regimes like to represent their failings as the work of outside agencies or acts of sabotage.

Thargor · 12-03-2019 8:20pm

No electricity for electronic payments and cash worth less than toilet paper, it must be a pure barter economy by now and that cant last, cant even use cryptocurrency with no power. Wouldnt be surprised to turn on Sky News some morning to hear the shooting has started...

https://twitter.com/Xentagz/status/1105386714577686529

Dohnjoe · 12-03-2019 11:17pm

I like how the pretext of this whole thread is that some imperialist power was trying to destroy Venezuela

Apparently they were beaten to the punch by Chavez and then Maduro who have flushed the country down the toilet faster than anyone could have possibly imagined

James Brown · 13-03-2019 2:25pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I like how the pretext of this whole thread is that some imperialist power was trying to destroy Venezuela

Apparently they were beaten to the punch by Chavez and then Maduro who have flushed the country down the toilet faster than anyone could have possibly imagined

Not quite. It's about the U.S. passing off supporting or encouraging a coup as spreading democracy IMO. No need in defending Chavez or Maduro to have that opinion.

Dohnjoe · 13-03-2019 3:03pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Not quite. It's about the U.S. passing off supporting or encouraging a coup as spreading democracy IMO. No need in defending Chavez or Maduro to have that opinion.

If the US said absolutely nothing whatsoever - Venezuela would be in this situation

It's irrelevant anyway, because all the ultra cynics do is just whip out the time machine, and delve into the past to blame their favorite targets

James Brown · 13-03-2019 4:07pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

If the US said absolutely nothing whatsoever - Venezuela would be in this situation

It's irrelevant anyway, because all the ultra cynics do is just whip out the time machine, and delve into the past to blame their favorite targets

But the thread is about US involvement in Venezuela not just Venezuela.

You don't need any time machine to discuss US interference in foreign situations. It can't be dismissed as merely talk on US involvement because people are picking on them, just 'cause.

Dohnjoe · 13-03-2019 4:49pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

But the thread is about US involvement in Venezuela not just Venezuela.

Nope, it's about bashing the US using whatever proxy current affairs situation, e.g. Venezuela

I'm not fan of Trump, but these threads are always the same

James Brown · 13-03-2019 5:37pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Nope, it's about bashing the US using whatever proxy current affairs situation, e.g. Venezuela

I'm not fan of Trump, but these threads are always the same

A thread for discussing US involvement in what the op terms a coup, will have some criticism of the US.

Would anyone be interested in a 'discussion' regarding US foreign policy as it relates to Venezuela where the US are not criticised? Or one on Trump where it's only positives?
If you're talking unfounded criticism, that's fair enough.

Manic Moran · 13-03-2019 5:53pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

A thread for discussing US involvement in what the op terms a coup, will have some criticism of the US.

Would anyone be interested in a 'discussion' regarding US foreign policy as it relates to Venezuela where the US are not criticised? Or one on Trump where it's only positives?
If you're talking unfounded criticism, that's fair enough.

It needs to be well-founded criticism, though. Criticism of US interference with the running of a nation as a matter of general policy would, indeed, be valid on a thread like this. Criticizing the US for the situation Venezuela is in right now, however, requires a little more standard of evidence than has been presented which seems to indicate that the Venezuelan government dug themselves into their hole without any great assistance from anyone else.

There are viable discussions to be had on questions like
"Should the US get involved supporting a coup in Venezuela?"
"Should the US actively get involved itself in the coup?"
"If the coup happens, supported by the US or not, and the shooting starts, should the US get involved and maybe put a stop to the fighting?"

There are good arguments for criticizing US actions on all three of those questions.

eire4 · 18-03-2019 4:43pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Nope, it's about bashing the US using whatever proxy current affairs situation, e.g. Venezuela

I'm not fan of Trump, but these threads are always the same

To be fair its hard not to bash the US given their long history of over throwing governments in South and Central America they do not like and either installing puppets or supporting right wing regimes which will be compliant. The overthrowing of Allende in Chile and the military dictatorship in Argentina right at the top of that list. More recently Honduras would be another example.

Notorious · 23-03-2019 2:16pm

I thought this video from the New York Times was a nice piece of investigative journalism. It was as simple as two videos being analysed and with some common sense a conclusion was drawn.

The initial story was that Maduro's forces had burned out trucks filled with aid. The opposition threw it up as a big news story and it managed to reach the twitter pages of big names like John Bolton and Mike Pompeo. The reality was that an anti-Maduro protester flung a molotov cocktail which mistakenly hit an aid-filled truck instead of its intended target.

Dohnjoe · 23-03-2019 4:02pm

Notorious wrote: »

I thought this video from the New York Times was a nice piece of investigative journalism. It was as simple as two videos being analysed and with some common sense a conclusion was drawn.

The initial story was that Maduro's forces had burned out trucks filled with aid. The opposition threw it up as a big news story and it managed to reach the twitter pages of big names like John Bolton and Mike Pompeo. The reality was that an anti-Maduro protester flung a molotov cocktail which mistakenly hit an aid-filled truck instead of its intended target.

Indeed but this is just smallfry tit-for-tat stuff

The country has been systematically destroyed by disastrous economic policies spanning two leaders (Chavez and Maduro), the latter of which has been manipulating and deconstructing the structure of government to keep himself in power

A populist who knows how to manipulate the low information voters - whilst at the same time destroying the country (carefully blaming it on foreign boogeymen, the opposition, etc)

It's been painful to watch all this from the outside

Cheerful Spring · 27-03-2019 5:25pm

Russian troops have deployed to Venezuela. More expected to arrive in the coming weeks. Trump says all options on the table to get them out. Good luck with this Trump. Are you really going to start a war with Russia over Venezuela?

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/0326/1038826-venezuela-russia-deployment/

ArchXStanton · 27-03-2019 5:40pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Russian troops have deployed to Venezuela. More expected to arrive in the coming weeks. Trump says all options on the table to get them out. Good luck with this Trump. Are you really going to start a war with Russia over Venezuela?

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/0326/1038826-venezuela-russia-deployment/

Unreal, they have the neck to try tell another state who they can have in their country, its OK for us to have troops stationed in your hemisphere but don't dare do it in ours.... And as usual the threat "all options are on the table!"

Cheerful Spring · 27-03-2019 5:42pm

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuelan-politics-usa-idUSKCN1R81OQ

Trump doesn't look happy on videos online. This could escalate fast to a new Cuban missile crisis. It depends on what kind of military hardware the Russians are bringing and likely to bring in to help Maduro.

Cheerful Spring · 27-03-2019 5:52pm

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Unreal, they have the neck to try tell another state who they can have in their country, its OK for us to have troops stationed in your hemisphere but don't dare do it in ours.... And as usual the threat "all options are on the table!"

This is always the way though. The Russians are likely doing this as payback for the west interference near their border.

Yep, its scary stuff we got very close to nuclear war over Cuba in 60s. Russia is not sitting back now and letting America overthrow its ally in South America. It only going to get worse from here on out. Russia is now actively supporting the Maduro regime with Russian troops and weapons

ArchXStanton · 27-03-2019 6:03pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

This is always the way though. The Russians are likely doing this as payback for the west interference near their border.

Yep, its scary stuff we got very close to nuclear war over Cuba in 60s. Russia is not sitting back now and letting America overthrow its ally in South America. It only going to get worse from here on out. Russia is now actively supporting the Maduro regime with Russian troops and weapons

Its the sheer hypocrisy of it on so many levels, I wouldn't even know were to begin, what happened with Guaido? Did his coup fizzle out?

blackwhite · 27-03-2019 6:11pm

So the posters on here who were outraged at US “interference” (that they couldn’t provide any evidence of) are now cheerleading direct Russian military intervention?

Sounds consistent at least :rolleyes:

eire4 · 27-03-2019 6:14pm

blackwhite wrote: »

So the posters on here who were outraged at US “interference” (that they couldn’t provide any evidence of) are now cheerleading direct Russian military intervention?

Sounds consistent at least :rolleyes:

Not me. The people of Venezuela are getting abused and squeezed by both the Americans and Russians at this point just horrible to see and clearly shows what disgusting countries both the US and Russia are when it comes to their foreign policy.

TeaBagMania · 27-03-2019 6:33pm

its easily remedied, let the citizens of Venezuela have a vote for who they want as a leader... managed by an outside neutral entity like Switzerland.

problem solved

LOL, like Manduro would ever let that happen

Irish Praetorian · 27-03-2019 7:05pm

eire4 wrote: »

Not me. The people of Venezuela are getting abused and squeezed by both the Americans and Russians at this point just horrible to see and clearly shows what disgusting countries both the US and Russia are when it comes to their foreign policy.

To be fair to the Russians (which I rarely get to do which is why it's so fun XD) and the US, I don't think blame cant be laid at their feet for the dire economic straits Venezuela now finds itself in.

As for Russian troops in Venezuela, well I don't think anyone on here can accuse me of being an apologist for Putin's actions in recent years, so it should be fairly clear to all that this is very much a non-issue. There are no shortage of countries in the world that have invited in a US military presence, it's not entirely unthinkable that other nations might invite Russian troops. The key difference is that while Russia almost exclusively garrisons dictatorial hell-holes in order to prop up their regimes, the US only does so maybe half or a third (I'm looking at you Saudi Arabia) of the time.

So to re-emphasize, I see no problem with Russian troops in Venezuela; it might be more useful if the regime could try to do better when it comes to seeing to the needs of its citizens but what the hell. At the very least it might demonstrate to other nations the dangers of electing parties with bonkers economic policies, lathered in a medley of anti-US rhetoric.

Gatling · 27-03-2019 8:55pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

This is always the way though. The Russians are likely doing this as payback for the west interference near their border.

What interference is this cheerful , annexations , illegal occupations of sovereign states , threatening Baltic States ?

Gatling · 27-03-2019 9:04pm

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

To be fair to the Russians (which I rarely get to do which is why it's so fun XD) and the US, I don't think blame cant be laid at their feet for the dire economic straits Venezuela now finds itself in.

As for Russian troops in Venezuela, well I don't think anyone on here can accuse me of being an apologist for Putin's actions in recent years, so it should be fairly clear to all that this is very much a non-issue.

100 russians Vs the population of Venezuela backed up by their neighbours and allies and the US certainly nothing to get excited about ,
The incident in Syria where several hundred russians and Syrians attacked a Kurdish area who were backed up with American forces ended in complete disaster that left hundreds of Russians dead .

Chances are they could be planning the evacuation of meduro and any cash and gold reserves he has access to ,

Let's be honest here this isn't the Cuban missile crisis or other nonsense being bandied around ,
Putin should tread carefully he's not at currently the most popular person in Russia at the moment

ArchXStanton · 27-03-2019 9:38pm

Gatling wrote: »

What interference is this cheerful , annexations , illegal occupations of sovereign states , threatening Baltic States ?

Just like the US illegally occupying a part of Syria Gatling? You still haven't provided that link

Another American backed coup happening in Venezuela

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