UFC 235 - Jones vs Smith, Woodley vs Usman - Sat March 2nd

spix · 04-03-2019 1:40am

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

I’ve watched that arm 20 times
It’s either an unconscious man or a pretending to be ones arm
That’s my opinion.
No body just lets their muscles and appendages fall around btw they move them
Show me one time ever that any not unconscious ufc fighter droops an appendage like that. I bet you can’t .

I'm not going to go look through fights for a similar position lol, just put your arm above your head and tell yourself to let your arm down, I guarantee it flops down.

Mean Laqueefa · 04-03-2019 4:07am

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

I’ve watched that arm 20 times
It’s either an unconscious man or a pretending to be ones arm
That’s my opinion.
No body just lets their muscles and appendages fall around btw they move them
Show me one time ever that any not unconscious ufc fighter droops an appendage like that. I bet you can’t .

CiaranTheGreat · 04-03-2019 9:21am

Maybe it’s nothing but I wonder did Askren being on the same card affect Tyrons performance? He would have been used to all the coaches emphasis on him on a fight night only for I believe 2 of his 4 cornermen to be focusing on another fighter only minutes before he has to fight.

It may be nothing but i would assume he would have his prefight routine or warmups rhythm that he is used to that may have had to be altered on Saturday.

magic_murph · 04-03-2019 10:48am

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

He was either out or faking being out , his reaction afterwards was like oh it’s ok so I believe he faked being out to get a rematch.

I think he was out for a second but recovered.
His arm 100% went limp - only for a second or two but he was out.
I imagine Askrin was also out for a second when he got dumped on his head but recovered, just about.

It was an early stoppage but robbie should have done more to show he was still awake - granted it all happened quickly so easy for us couch fighters to comments

magic_murph · 04-03-2019 10:52am

spix wrote: »

Ok forget the thumbs up, he picked up lawlers arm and when he let it go it didn't fall down, but he already had his hand on askrens chest ready to stop it. He just failed at being a good ref there imo....

His arm wasn't lifeless that is how anyone would let it fall down from the position, why put effort into moving your arm when you can just relax it and let gravity do its job.

How heavy are your arms that it take effort to lower your arm - to the point that it would diminish your energy reserves.

He was out for a second and did regain consciousness

rob316 · 04-03-2019 10:58am

Just finished catching up on the main card. Great card

Cody - where the **** is this guys chill, immensely talented fighter and he just has no patience. Wild swinging, did he learn nothing from TJ fight.

Usman - he rag dolled Woodley and I can't believe I'm saying that. Pure domination start to finish.

Jones - too creative and strong for a conventional fighter like Smith. Smith was way out of his league.

Askren - tough prick to survive that early beating. Lawler was out, maybe for a second but he was out, your arm just doesn't drop like that if your conscious.

Woodley may aswell retire or join another promo, White won't let him near the title again.

Teddy Daniels · 04-03-2019 1:53pm

Mean Laqueefa wrote: »

You win

Mellor · 04-03-2019 2:10pm

spix wrote: »

If he kept the pressure on he would've burnt his arms out eventually. Some chokes just aren't in right and doesn't matter how long you hold it for you won't get a tap, he would've let go or not squeezed as hard eventually.

Or he could have put Robbie to sleep, fully. Might have only been a few seconds away. Don't think we should discount that option.

spix · 04-03-2019 2:10pm

magic_murph wrote: »

How heavy are your arms that it take effort to lower your arm - to the point that it would diminish your energy reserves.

He was out for a second and did regain consciousness

You are missing my point. When your arm is above your head, your muscles are engaged, to let your arm down you relax your muscles and arm flops down due to gravity. It takes intentional effort to not flop your arm down from above your head. The way his arm went down is a completely natural movement, everyone is being influenced by the commentary...

04-03-2019 2:28pm

spix wrote: »

The way his arm went down is a completely natural movement

There is no way of knowing whether he was out or not, only Robbie knows.

But his arm went totally limp and flopped down in a manner that very much looks like he was briefly out. I have never seen anyone in a choke let their arm go limp like that on purpose. It would be a silly thing to do on purpose because it would very likely result in ref intervention.

spix · 04-03-2019 2:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no way of knowing whether he was out or not, only Robbie knows.

But his arm went totally limp and flopped down in a manner that very much looks like he was briefly out. I have never seen anyone in a choke let their arm go limp like that on purpose. It would be a silly thing to do on purpose because it would very likely result in ref intervention.

If you look closely (at the full clip) it looks like robbie already had his arm relaxed before it fell, it was resting on ben but then ben knocked it off by turning his head. Either way the arm flop is irrelevant since herb lifted robbies arm to check and robbie kept it up which means he was not out. Yet herb still stopped it? He just f'ed up.

uptherebels · 04-03-2019 2:40pm

spix wrote: »

I'm not going to go look through fights for a similar position lol, just put your arm above your head and tell yourself to let your arm down, I guarantee it flops down.

But why do it in a fight?

ASOT · 04-03-2019 2:59pm

Gall saying he passed out cutting weight and that's why he lost, Diego also has an picture up showing Gall bit him, glad he was smashed up.

EagererBeaver · 04-03-2019 3:05pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is no way of knowing whether he was out or not, only Robbie knows.

But his arm went totally limp and flopped down in a manner that very much looks like he was briefly out. I have never seen anyone in a choke let their arm go limp like that on purpose. It would be a silly thing to do on purpose because it would very likely result in ref intervention.

Did you really use accelerated footage to make your point here?

His arm didn't go "totally" limp at all. As soon as it touched the mat his first was closed and moving.

xckjoo · 04-03-2019 3:24pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Did you really use accelerated footage to make your point here?

His arm didn't go "totally" limp at all. As soon as it touched the mat his first was closed and moving.

He 100% let it flop like he was unconscious. Completely unnatural way of moving a limb. Maybe he wasn't out at all but Herb couldn't know that. The reaction to Herb moving his hand is another thing. I think people are right that it was this that woke him up. He looked a little slow to react so Herb had already started getting Ben off of someone he believed was unconscious. Even if he wasn't out and wasn't slow to move his hand I still don't think we can fault the call.

magic_murph · 04-03-2019 3:29pm

Can you show a clip of his hand moving when hit hits the canvas - the clip above looks for all the word that the arm flopped to the ground in a manner that would suggest he is unconscious rather than 'saving energy' - I believe he woke up straight after but on the arm dropping moment he was out.

04-03-2019 3:39pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Did you really use accelerated footage to make your point here?

No .. ?

It's a looping gif. It's less than a second of footage according to the round timer, and it's taking slightly less than a second for one full loop. So it's close to real time as far as I can discern. If you can technically prove otherwise go for it.

The Nal · 04-03-2019 3:42pm

Fighters have to be overly careful about showing they're ok at the moment. A few bad stoppages recently.

ASOT · 04-03-2019 3:49pm

The Nal wrote: »

Fighters have to be overly careful about showing they're ok at the moment. A few bad stoppages recently.

To be fair Alvey has himself to blame there, pinned down like that turtling up is hardly intelligently defending yourself

04-03-2019 3:55pm

Regarding that Alvey stoppage, it's just the way things have gone with more emphasis on fighter safety. You can stick your thumb up all you want but if you're being punched in the head and not doing anything, most refs will stop it.

With that specific stoppage I would also look at the previous knock-down for context. When Alvey gets up and is on wobbly legs, Goddard is already going to be very close to stopping it. Again - a sign of the times, there is less tolerance nowadays for staggering around. The association of ringside physicians released new guidelines for refs last year and any loss of balance is supposed to be interpreted as a potential concussion symptom.

Mr. Manager · 04-03-2019 4:36pm

If anyone thinks that's an early stoppage they need their head examined. He's walking around like a new born baby deer ffs

spix · 04-03-2019 5:40pm

Mr. Manager wrote: »

If anyone thinks that's an early stoppage they need their head examined. He's walking around like a new born baby deer ffs

Just because someone gets wobbled in a fight doesn't mean it should be stopped. I agree that it wasn't an early stoppage though, purely because he was taking punches on the ground for a few seconds without attempting to move. He could've given him a bit longer to try get out of there but it wasn't that bad a stoppage that it should be complained about, completely understandable why he stopped it.

Luap · 04-03-2019 7:13pm

Is there a replay of ufc 235 tonight?

3e had it before

Ultimate Seduction · 04-03-2019 7:16pm

Luap wrote: »

Is there a replay of ufc 235 tonight?

3e had it before

Used to be on 3e on a Tuesday night I thought? Not sure if they still do because BT replay it on Sunday nights.

Beersmith · 04-03-2019 7:47pm

Robbie wasn't intelligently defending himself (along with clearly being out for at least a brief moment) so it's over.

dulux99 · 04-03-2019 8:01pm

Beersmith wrote: »

Robbie wasn't intelligently defending himself (along with clearly being out for at least a brief moment) so it's over.

Agreed. I really can't understand the total uproar about it. He gave Herb no choice.

spix · 04-03-2019 9:08pm

dulux99 wrote: »

Agreed. I really can't understand the total uproar about it. He gave Herb no choice.

How did he give herb no choice? Herb lifted up his arm to check if he was out or not, robbie kept his arm up but herb still stopped it. Its not unusual for someone to be held in a choke for way longer than robbie was and eventually get out of it or have the opponent let go. He wasn't out, didn't tap, it shouldn't have been stopped. End of story. Herb just failed big time and I guarantee he instantly knew he did as well.

Meanwhile in the d leagues, there is no doubt if they are out or not
Heres frans mlambo choking someone out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5_DA84kG9U&t=1305s
and him getting choked out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2Wenhiatco&t=310s

spix · 04-03-2019 9:12pm

Beersmith wrote: »

Robbie wasn't intelligently defending himself (along with clearly being out for at least a brief moment) so it's over.

Staying relaxed is an intelligent defense for a choke, if he moved he could've made the choke tighter, he could've felt he was fine in that position and just elected to stay calm and see if ben loosens the grip eventually or see out the round.

dulux99 · 04-03-2019 9:45pm

But his arm went totally limp. It looked limp. The commentators screamed that he was out, to me at home he looked totally out, the ref had to make the decision within about half a second. It was unfortunate but not egregious in my opinion.

Mellor · 04-03-2019 10:28pm

spix wrote: »

Either way the arm flop is irrelevant since herb lifted robbies arm to check and robbie kept it up which means he was not out.

Keeping it up doesn't prove he was conscious though. You can also spasm and go rigid. The ref isn't looking to see if his hand drops WWE style. He's looking for resistance or a reaction. If Robbie lets Herb move his arm, and doesn't react. It's gonna looks like he is out.

He was lucid immediately. So I don't think he was actually out. But his actions were exactly how I'd react if I was pretending to be out.

UFC 235 - Jones vs Smith, Woodley vs Usman - Sat March 2nd

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