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UFC 235 - Jones vs Smith, Woodley vs Usman - Sat March 2nd

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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 60 ✭✭JitzNdHitz


    The Nal wrote: »

    Looks bad stoppage looking at it like that alright.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,374 ✭✭✭Wrongway1985


    Oh no you actually can see his thumb go up :(


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That clip is missing a few important seconds. His arm initially went limp, no question. He had it up on Askren's head and it fell down limp. (not shown on the above clip). When Herb checked on him a second later, his arm was not limp; he gave a thumbs up.

    A weird one. He was out and then not out but I don't see any adjustment or letting off on the choke from Askren. I wonder would Robbie have faked the limp arm Brazilian-tap style..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    Great card, best I've seen in a while, apart from a frustrating main. Smith just had nothing to offer, and was completely outclassed, he should've just started taking some big risks because there was no way he was going to win that fight from R2 onwards.

    I don't think the controversial stoppage was as bad as some made it out to be. Even the commentators though Lawler was out, whatever about that half-committed thumbs up, his arm completely dropped limp from its position on Askren's head.

    Not the finish either man would've wanted, but I think Lawler was beaten once Askren had that choke on. But man, that slam and subsequent beatdown was something else, Lawler was unlucky to not get the finish.

    What can you say about Usman....he made Tyron look like a bum, but I think we should more talk about what that says about Usman rather than Tyron. Unbelievable performance. Is there some reason he didn't get performance of the night, that surprises me.

    Good scrap from Zhang as well, Corbrandt played it dumb and paid big time. Overall a really good main card.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭spix


    That clip is missing a few important seconds. His arm initially went limp, no question. He had it up on Askren's head and it fell down limp. (not shown on the above clip). When Herb checked on him a second later, his arm was not limp; he gave a thumbs up.

    A weird one. He was out and then not out but I don't see any adjustment or letting off on the choke from Askren. I wonder would Robbie have faked the limp arm Brazilian-tap style..


    His arm didn't initially go limp... he let it fall down, there was no point to having his arm where it was.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    mangobob wrote: »
    Hence the "only more hesitant" part of my comment. In both fights Woodley barely fired a shot. The only difference is that the few shots he fired against Wonderboy landed. The ones against Usman didnt.

    The first fight won fight of the night FFS.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    spix wrote: »
    His arm didn't initially go limp... he let it fall down, there was no point to having his arm where it was.
    It went limp.

    When your arm is up and you want it lower down, you don't let it flop down like a sack of potatoes - that's just not a natural movement.

    https://streamja.com/PylQ


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭mangobob


    The first fight won fight of the night FFS.

    You're absolutely right. My bad. I should have said the second fight. Dunno how I got them confused, that first fight was epic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,348 ✭✭✭✭ricero


    Woodley looked like he took aload of xanax before he stepped foot in the octagon. Shocking performance from his usual high standards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,920 ✭✭✭✭Witcher




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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,858 ✭✭✭✭mailburner


    ricero wrote: »
    Woodley looked like he took aload of xanax before he stepped foot in the octagon. Shocking performance from his usual high standards.


    It's the most passive I've seen him since he fought jake shields
    too bad to be true in fairness and he'll be waiting a long time to get
    another shot


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,858 ✭✭✭✭mailburner


    This time next year

    jones v walker for the strap


    wouldn't that be some fight if walker continues to look this good?

    even at this stage bar maybe cormier, is there anyone who can even test jones?

    would give anything to see rumble come back to take on jones also


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,935 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    mailburner wrote: »
    This time next year

    jones v walker for the strap


    wouldn't that be some fight if walker continues to look this good?

    even at this stage bar maybe cormier, is there anyone who can even test jones?

    would give anything to see rumble come back to take on jones also

    Jones would murder Rumble, DC managed it easy enough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,830 ✭✭✭✭Zero-Cool


    I cheered so much when Robbie dumped Ben on his head, thought for sure he was gonna finish him. Askren is a tough bastard.

    https://twitter.com/thuhGooch/status/1102262195927302144?s=19


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,830 ✭✭✭✭Zero-Cool


    Also, looks like Till accepts bens fallout.

    https://twitter.com/darrentill2/status/1102294299226619905?s=19


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,858 ✭✭✭✭mailburner


    Tazzimus wrote: »
    Jones would murder Rumble, DC managed it easy enough.

    not so sure, cormier did what he was best and didn't want to stand with rumble in the first fight
    there would be a good chance of jones standing and trading with rumble imo which would be close enough imo considering most that stood with rumble were knocked out or beaten badly (phil davis)

    I don't think santos possesses rumbles power but he is a good striker who could have some success against jones without possibly ever beating him


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,935 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    mailburner wrote: »
    not so sure, cormier did what he was best and didn't want to stand with rumble in the first fight
    there would be a good chance of jones standing and trading with rumble imo which would be close enough imo considering most that stood with rumble were knocked out or beaten badly (phil davis)

    I don't think santos possesses rumbles power but he is a good striker who could have some success against jones without possibly ever beating him

    Jones wouldn't be stupid enough to stand and trade with the risk of having his soul separated from his body by Rumbles fist.
    He'd do what DC did and take him down and wear him out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭derfderf


    Tazzimus wrote: »
    Jones wouldn't be stupid enough to stand and trade with the risk of having his soul separated from his body by Rumbles fist.
    He'd do what DC did and take him down and wear him out.

    Jones actually said during the week thank god rumble will never make 205 again. He's glad he never had to take a smack from him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,935 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    derfderf wrote: »
    Jones actually said during the week thank god rumble will never make 205 again. He's glad he never had to take a smack from him.

    I imagine a lot of people are glad :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 445 ✭✭Teddy Daniels


    That clip is missing a few important seconds. His arm initially went limp, no question. He had it up on Askren's head and it fell down limp. (not shown on the above clip). When Herb checked on him a second later, his arm was not limp; he gave a thumbs up.

    A weird one. He was out and then not out but I don't see any adjustment or letting off on the choke from Askren. I wonder would Robbie have faked the limp arm Brazilian-tap style..

    This is my suspicion.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 445 ✭✭Teddy Daniels


    It went limp.

    When your arm is up and you want it lower down, you don't let it flop down like a sack of potatoes - that's just not a natural movement.

    https://streamja.com/PylQ

    He was either out or faking being out , his reaction afterwards was like oh it’s ok so I believe he faked being out to get a rematch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,858 ✭✭✭✭mailburner


    Jones comes across as a lovely guy at the presser
    I think he's changed for the better, learnt from his mistakes and in
    time will be a great role model :D

    jaysus he bring fake to new levels


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭spix


    It went limp.

    When your arm is up and you want it lower down, you don't let it flop down like a sack of potatoes - that's just not a natural movement.

    https://streamja.com/PylQ


    Yes you do actually, its called gravity


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭spix


    He was either out or faking being out , his reaction afterwards was like oh it’s ok so I believe he faked being out to get a rematch.

    Yeah he faked being out by clearly giving a thumbs up and keeping his arm up when herb went to check.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    spix wrote: »
    Yeah he faked being out by clearly giving a thumbs up and keeping his arm up when herb went to check.

    It's not that ambiguous. His arm flopped lifelessly to the mat after he choke was applied heavily, can't really blame Herb Dean for not seeing the subsequent thumbs up tucked underneath Lawler.

    There's a world of difference between dropping your hand, and it flopping to the mat in a textback choked-out fashion.

    Whether he was faking or not, the ref made a decent call based on what was in front of him in real time.

    Reminds me of Sam Alvey complaining of the unfair stoppage when he was turtled taking a pounding and not intelligently defending.

    You can argue till the cows come home but it was a fair stoppage to me in the context of the fight and while Herb Dean has made some bad stoppages that wasn't really one of them.

    Marc Goddard showed some serious lack of judgement in comparison during the Usman/Woodley fight with the whole "this is a fight" spiel, while Usman was working away relentlessly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 445 ✭✭Teddy Daniels


    spix wrote: »
    Yeah he faked being out by clearly giving a thumbs up and keeping his arm up when herb went to check.

    That arm drop had both rogan and Dom screaming he was out
    Herb clearly formed the same opinion
    It wasn’t a natural movement and yes I get that he gave a thumbs up
    I think he gave up on the charade at that stage
    He was done anyway he wasn’t getting out of that bulldog and a jaw/head squeeze is a bad place to be.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 445 ✭✭Teddy Daniels


    It's not that ambiguous. His arm flopped lifelessly to the mat after he choke was applied heavily, can't really blame Herb Dean for not seeing the subsequent thumbs up tucked underneath Lawler.

    There's a world of difference between dropping your hand, and it flopping to the mat in a textback choked-out fashion.

    Whether he was faking or not, the ref made a decent call based on what was in front of him in real time.

    Reminds me of Sam Alvey complaining of the unfair stoppage when he was turtled taking a pounding and not intelligently defending.

    You can argue till the cows come home but it was a fair stoppage to me in the context of the fight and while Herb Dean has made some bad stoppages that wasn't really one of them.

    Marc Goddard showed some serious lack of judgement in comparison during the Usman/Woodley fight with the whole "this is a fight" spiel, while Usman was working away relentlessly.
    Was that Goddard ?
    What was he at with all those stand ups ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭spix


    It's not that ambiguous. His arm flopped lifelessly to the mat after he choke was applied heavily, can't really blame Herb Dean for not seeing the subsequent thumbs up tucked underneath Lawler.

    There's a world of difference between dropping your hand, and it flopping to the mat in a textback choked-out fashion.

    Whether he was faking or not, the ref made a decent call based on what was in front of him in real time.

    Reminds me of Sam Alvey complaining of the unfair stoppage when he was turtled taking a pounding and not intelligently defending.

    You can argue till the cows come home but it was a fair stoppage to me in the context of the fight and while Herb Dean has made some bad stoppages that wasn't really one of them.

    Marc Goddard showed some serious lack of judgement in comparison during the Usman/Woodley fight with the whole "this is a fight" spiel, while Usman was working away relentlessly.


    Ok forget the thumbs up, he picked up lawlers arm and when he let it go it didn't fall down, but he already had his hand on askrens chest ready to stop it. He just failed at being a good ref there imo....

    His arm wasn't lifeless that is how anyone would let it fall down from the position, why put effort into moving your arm when you can just relax it and let gravity do its job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭spix


    That arm drop had both rogan and Dom screaming he was out
    Herb clearly formed the same opinion
    It wasn’t a natural movement and yes I get that he gave a thumbs up
    I think he gave up on the charade at that stage
    He was done anyway he wasn’t getting out of that bulldog and a jaw/head squeeze is a bad place to be.

    Commentators often say things which are completely wrong and influence viewers opinions, its possible hearb also heard them and was influenced. Just because askren said he wasn't going to let go doesn't mean he wouldn't have. If he kept the pressure on he would've burnt his arms out eventually. Some chokes just aren't in right and doesn't matter how long you hold it for you won't get a tap, he would've let go or not squeezed as hard eventually.

    The way he left his arm down is a completely natural movement, he just relaxed it and let gravity do its job rather than exerting effort to move his muscles for no reason


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 445 ✭✭Teddy Daniels


    spix wrote: »
    Commentators often say things which are completely wrong and influence viewers opinions, its possible hearb also heard them and was influenced. Just because askren said he wasn't going to let go doesn't mean he wouldn't have. If he kept the pressure on he would've burnt his arms out eventually. Some chokes just aren't in right and doesn't matter how long you hold it for you won't get a tap, he would've let go or not squeezed as hard eventually.

    The way he left his arm down is a completely natural movement, he just relaxed it and let gravity do its job rather than exerting effort to move his muscles for no reason

    I’ve watched that arm 20 times
    It’s either an unconscious man or a pretending to be ones arm
    That’s my opinion.
    No body just lets their muscles and appendages fall around btw they move them
    Show me one time ever that any not unconscious ufc fighter droops an appendage like that. I bet you can’t .


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