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Homelessness on the rise (over 130 more children) - Mod Warning Post #392

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    #62
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,823 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If you want to link dump, start a blog.


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    #63
    GGTrek
    Registered Users Posts: 834 ✭✭✭GGTrek


    L1011 wrote: »
    If you want to link dump, start a blog.
    They guy is probably working for one of the charities and they pay people to spread propaganda, otherwise how can they justify their own existence.


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    #64
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    I know Slydice has got criticism in the past but I welcome this thread.

    Edit it's a very serious problem - the re adjustment of figures is struggling to keep the figures under 10 k


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    #65
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,109 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Once it breaks the 10k, we'll have a new push in the media, it'll be Topic #1 against.

    Miriam, Claire Byrne, Joe Duffy......they'll all be over it again like a rash.


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    #66
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    People are entitled to think homelessness isn't an issue.

    But it is - and is currently at 9987 people according to latest stats.

    To say that these people are not homeless is to imply that a family hub, hotel room or other other emergency accommodation are homes.

    I'm just listening to the local radio now in Cork and a lady was just saying she was on a friends couch for months.

    She was from Thurles and had got a job in Cork - she would have been effectively homeless for the few months but will be in NO figures.

    However her case highlights that there is a housing/accommodation shortage - ie the amount of people needing a place exceeds the places available to rent.

    Someone mentioned that 100 families left homelessness in January. However the net figure actually increased - so more people ENTERED homelessness then left it.

    I started this thread because I see the other thread from Slydice could be in trouble.

    But yet the issue merit's a thread in this part of the forum


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    #67
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Old diesel wrote: »
    I'm just listening to the local radio now in Cork and a lady was just saying she was on a friends couch for months.

    She was from Thurles and had got a job in Cork - she would have been effectively homeless for the few months but will be in NO figures.

    I am sure she could have got accommodation if she was wiling to pay for it.


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    #68
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    I am sure she could have got accommodation if she was wiling to pay for it.

    Do you know the woman - all I know about her is that her situation was mentioned on the news and a clip of her talking about it was on the news report.

    I saw no indication of her situation been as a result of an unwillingness to pay.

    I'm sure she fully expects and is happy to pay.


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    #69
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,109 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    @OldDiesel

    Do you accept that the figures are open to manipulation?

    Do you wonder why so many homes are refused when offered to people?


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    #70
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Old diesel wrote: »
    Do you know the woman - all I know about her is that her situation was mentioned on the news and a clip of her talking about it was on the news report.

    I saw no indication of her situation been as a result of an unwillingness to pay.

    I'm sure she fully expects and is happy to pay.

    There is accommodation there if people are willing to pay. You know nothing about her but are assuming it was just an act of god she was couch-surfing?


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    #71
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,109 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Was she even on that couch for 3 months?

    When people are on the radio they are going to make everything sound SO BAD to get their point across.

    No harm, but no friend of mine would be on my sofa for 3 months, end of.
    I wouldn't even let a family member lie on my sofa that long. People have to sort themselves out too. That woman obviously has no personal responsibility and wants the Gov to look after her all her life.


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    #72
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    There is accommodation there if people are willing to pay. You know nothing about her but are assuming it was just an act of god she was couch-surfing?

    She has a place now - the few months she was sleeping on her friends couch were up to October last year.

    I missed that the first time (heard it on the news at 11 and again at 12)


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    #73
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Old diesel wrote: »
    She has a place now - the few months she was sleeping on her friends couch were up to October last year.

    I missed that the first time (heard it on the news at 11 and again at 12)

    So she was willing to pay in October but not before?


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    #74
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    There is accommodation there if people are willing to pay. You know nothing about her but are assuming it was just an act of god she was couch-surfing?

    It's not an act of god - it's the sort of thing that one expects to see happen in an accommodation shortage.

    You take a friends couch as it's likely less crap then a homeless hostel.

    Your friend let's you have the couch because they care.

    Again on hearing the clip again she got sorted in the end.

    It's merely one example of the crisis


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    #75
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,109 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Old diesel wrote: »
    It's not an act of god - it's the sort of thing that one expects to see happen in an accommodation shortage.

    You take a friends couch as it's likely less crap then a homeless hostel.

    Your friend let's you have the couch because they care.

    Again on hearing the clip again she got sorted in the end.

    It's merely one example of the crisis

    some of the 'examples' of the crisis I heard on various media reports immediately had we thinking to myself "is this person telling the truth? Or are they deliberately lying to make their lot sound worse than it is?"

    She could have been more excting if she was lying..people in the past have put tents up on beaches to show how homeless they were. Others dressed their kids in their school clothes and slept in Garda stations.

    Sleeping on a couch in a friends house is hardly shocking compared to them.


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    #76
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Old diesel wrote: »
    It's not an act of god - it's the sort of thing that one expects to see happen in an accommodation shortage.

    You take a friends couch as it's likely less crap then a homeless hostel.

    Your friend let's you have the couch because they care.

    Again on hearing the clip again she got sorted in the end.

    It's merely one example of the crisis

    If there is such a crisis, how come she got accommodation in October? If there was a crisis like you say, she will still be on a couch. All she had to do was go out with her handbag, finding vacant room, flat or house and pay a months deposit and a months rent in advance.


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    #77
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Re figure manipulation - it seems if there is figure manipulation it's actually figures been adjusted DOWN.

    There is apparently a new type of accommodation paid for by section 10 (homeless accommodation) funding.

    They call it "own front door" accommodation - theres loopholes that allow 18 month leases only. Kitty Holland of the Irish times reported on this i think.

    These were in the stats previously but now arent.

    There was a family hub in Limerick that's also not in the stats apparently because there was/is a plan for that HUB to become permanent accommodation.


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    #78
    loveall
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭loveall


    Just on a side note......
    18 yr old goes to Simon community saying he’s homeless. He’s not, he has a self contained unit in the family home with apprenticeship and vehicle through family business. His problem was he wanted to live in his own place in the town near his friends and suffered a dose of work shy/superiority complex.
    To hasten his wishes he told the Simon community that he’d been homeless since 15. Plastered his and others FB with his sorry fairytale (at his mother’s expense) with a link to a GoFund page so any sad sap could pay out; All complete BS, but enough to make a reporter take notice and he soon had the eyes and ears of a national and regional newspaper and radio station; all publicised the GoFund me link.
    Once his family found out what was going on they stopped all and of course had the proof that all was make believe, but 1800 hundred people left terrible comments about the mother to one national paper and he pocketed 2k.
    His family are hard working people with pride and would be the last to look for a hand out, they’re at a loss as to why he didn’t get that instilled pride. He went on to figure a life of crime pays.


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    #79
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    But if we think the figures are being manipulated upwards - who is classed as homeless that shouldnt be.

    It's ultimately in the interests of Government and local authorities to be able to show a REDUCTION in homelessness.

    So it's hard to figure why they would manipulate figures up. They could of course do it - but there's no obvious win from doing it.


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    #80
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    If someone actually takes the urine like in Lovealls example (I only saw that after my previous post) then yes sanctions may well be justified.

    But that doesn't eliminate the fact that there IS an accomodation shortage and homelessness issue.

    It's like saying many - most even - landlords are decent people. Yes that's true but many of us have encountered bad landlords too.


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    #81
    overkill602
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭overkill602


    Old diesel wrote: »
    But if we think the figures are being manipulated upwards - who is classed as homeless that shouldnt be.

    It's ultimately in the interests of Government and local authorities to be able to show a REDUCTION in homelessness.

    So it's hard to figure why they would manipulate figures up. They could of course do it - but there's no obvious win from doing it.


    Hail the new homeless industry some 70 organizations last count in dublin alone increasing numbers a must for them so redefining homeless as more than someone sleeping rough and beyond


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    #82
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    overkill602 wrote: »
    Hail the new homeless industry some 70 organizations last count in dublin alone increasing numbers a must for them so redefining homeless as more than someone sleeping rough and beyond

    You could argue that for the likes of REITS and Fintan McNamara talking down the crisis is useful as they can max the rents (in the case of Fintan the membership he represents) for longer.

    Fintan mentioned on radio the other day that rents were starting to soften.

    So we potentially have vested interests everywhere.

    Is it not the local Authorities that actually record the figures anyway.

    Edit - but the point remains - who are the people who are homeless on stats that shouldnt be if figures are being manipulated.

    Loveall posted an example but on a wider level how big an issue is manipulation of stats.


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    #83
    Cryptopagan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    Old diesel wrote: »
    So we potentially have vested interests everywhere.

    Is it not the local Authorities that actually record the figures anyway.

    Yes, and apparently they can be quite resistant to registering people (I’d imagine young singletons find it hardest).

    Ireland doesn’t have an especially expansive definition of homelessness anyhow, which allowed Varadkar to claim our rates were actually lower than all these other places.

    Arguing homelessness should only encompass rough sleepers is ridiculously narrow. Homeless means without home, not without shelter.


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    #84
    loveall
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭loveall


    When the parents questioned the Simon community involved, they were told his word was taken as fact as he was 18.
    No one called to the parents to inform them of the situation. They found out by hearing a radio interview.
    It would have taken five minutes to look at paperwork to prove employment, residence etc. What happened to the parents was appalling.
    How did the lad know the Simon Community would lap up the story, fill out his dole application and house him in a flat in the town of his choosing? That's what happened.


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    #85
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,109 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    If we have such a crisis, some say an emergency situation, why are we having close to a 50% rejection rate on offers of homes across the country?

    "But I'm really desperate for a home" (but not really so desperate, cos I can be picky if its not near me ma)


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    #86
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,907 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    NIMAN wrote:
    "But I'm really desperate for a home" (but not really so desperate, cos I can be picky if its not near me ma)


    Very few 10k homeless people reject homes.

    The people you are talking about are for the most part in rental accommodation and the state is paying the lions share of the rent. They have been in rented accommodation for years. I know one family where the state paid their rent for over 15 years. They have their forever home now after rejecting two offers. People in this situation are in no real hurry. They are happy to wait for the house near mammy.

    These aren't part of the 10k homeless people. Most homeless people won't be offered a council house for years yet. Most homeless people move from hostels /hotels to rental accommodation and not a council property


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    #87
    piplip87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭piplip87


    Time for social services to get involved. If your are unemployed and able to work and have made no attempt to retrain or get a job in the last two years and are now homeless, it's time the state gets involved. If you cannot or will not provide for your kids then you don't deserve them.

    It will also stop a generation of "your honour he was homeless in the 2010s, he had a hard up bringing etc".


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    #88
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Cryptopagan wrote: »
    Yes, and apparently they can be quite resistant to registering people (I’d imagine young singletons find it hardest).

    Ireland doesn’t have an especially expansive definition of homelessness anyhow, which allowed Varadkar to claim our rates were actually lower than all these other places.

    Arguing homelessness should only encompass rough sleepers is ridiculously narrow. Homeless means without home, not without shelter.

    I've heard this about it been hard to register as well - with council staff pushing a "can you stay with friends/family" angle.

    You've got to bear in mind that for the local authority someone presenting as homeless is a massive pain in the rear end.

    Someone who presents as homeless is someone else that needs a place to stay tonight etc


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    #89
    Giveaway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭Giveaway


    Slydice wrote: »
    In September 2018, the number of children in homelessness increased by: 136.
    The number of children who became newly homeless was: 193.


    The Homelessness Report September 2018 has been released:
    https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/homeless_report_-_september_2018.pdf

    Homelessness is on the rise. I've updated the two charts based on the totals they give.

    Homelessness (Adults)
    464565.png

    Family Homelessness
    464564.png

    The latest report does not have commentary where previous reports did. They used to include:

    or:


    Coverage of this report:
    Almost 200 children became homeless in the past month in Dublin
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/almost-200-children-became-homeless-in-the-past-month-in-dublin-1.3674650


    'Government appears to just accept this as a natural phenomenon' - 193 children became newly-homeless last month
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/government-appears-to-just-accept-this-as-a-natural-phenomenon-193-children-became-newlyhomeless-last-month-37455574.html


    The number of homeless children in Ireland has risen by 136 in the space of a month
    There are now collectively 9,698 people living in homeless accommodation across Ireland.
    https://www.thejournal.ie/homeless-ireland-september-figures-4303866-Oct2018/


    Tweets:
    https://twitter.com/FocusIreland/status/1055142703191810053
    https://twitter.com/MyNameCampaign/status/1055198426642685952
    https://twitter.com/SimonCommunity/status/1055153667500838912
    https://twitter.com/ICHHDUBLIN/status/1055150132142989313
    https://twitter.com/PMVTrust/status/1055181050303918081



    Other recent media on homelessness and supply shortage in Ireland:
    'Worrying trend' of people becoming homeless younger
    https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2018/1019/1005174-novas-limerick/


    Residential property prices have risen by 8.6% so far this year
    https://www.thejournal.ie/cso-house-prices-ireland-2018-4276199-Oct2018/


    Rent hikes of up to 25% spark protest outside landlord’s offices
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/rent-hikes-of-up-to-25-spark-protest-outside-landlord-s-offices-1.3653254


    'Budget 2019 means students will be left out in the cold for another year, quite literally'
    https://www.independent.ie/business/budget/comment-reaction/comment-budget-2019-means-students-will-be-left-out-in-the-cold-for-another-year-quite-literally-37401136.html

    Employed by a quango or homeless org?


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    #90
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,099 ✭✭✭Browney7


    piplip87 wrote: »
    Time for social services to get involved. If your are unemployed and able to work and have made no attempt to retrain or get a job in the last two years and are now homeless, it's time the state gets involved. If you cannot or will not provide for your kids then you don't deserve them.

    It will also stop a generation of "your honour he was homeless in the 2010s, he had a hard up bringing etc".

    Yes because taking children off their parents has worked out so well in the past for this country hasn't it?


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    #91
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Old diesel wrote: »
    But if we think the figures are being manipulated upwards - who is classed as homeless that shouldnt be.

    It's ultimately in the interests of Government and local authorities to be able to show a REDUCTION in homelessness.

    So it's hard to figure why they would manipulate figures up. They could of course do it - but there's no obvious win from doing it.

    Someone is homeless if they don’t have a roof over their heads and have no option but to sleep on the streets or other areas outdoors.


This discussion has been closed.
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