Tommy Robinson jailed

27-02-2019 12:51pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

I have to stop you there. Are antifa that mainstream? I thought that the general consensus, even among people who would describe themselves as being on the left, was that they were generally crust trouble-makers. I don't even know who their high-profile figures are but I could list a heap of high-profile alt-right figures without even straining myself.

I think they are reported much more favourably than people who would carry out the same/equivalent level of violence and disturbance if they had been wearing a MAGA hat.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 27-02-2019 12:53pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

No, they would want everyone to have an 50-50 chance of attaining these positions. BIG difference.

Only about 0.01% have a realistic chance of becoming a CEO.

Here's one for you: identity politics have never attempted genocide or started a world war.

The Identity politics of nationalism have started most wars in fact.

All that “white” reaction to identity politics is is itself identity politics.

ohnonotgmail · 27-02-2019 12:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

See, I never said he was "a great lad". I just don't think he is far right.

I also would be interested in seeing those particular facebook posts in their context before coming to a full opinion.

what context would make

a post urging people to terrorise and behead those who follow the Koran
a post urging people to "make war" on Muslims

acceptable to you?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-02-2019 12:57pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The Identity politics of nationalism have started most wars in fact.

All that “white” reaction to identity politics is is itself identity politics.

FYP.

Identity politics perfers to the personal identiy and is about as far from traditional nationalism/national identity as you can get.

Grayson · 27-02-2019 12:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

See, I never said he was "a great lad". I just don't think he is far right.

I also would be interested in seeing those particular facebook posts in their context before coming to a full opinion.

He stood in a muslim neighborhood and said that the people who lived in the houses there were enemy combatants who wanted to kill everyone else. That's pretty far right.

ancapailldorcha · 27-02-2019 12:59pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

FYP.

Identity politics is about as far from traditional nationalism as you can get.

Identity politics is based on dividing people into groups which ignore borders whereas nationalism is based around nationhood and emphasises strong borders.

Cienciano · 27-02-2019 1:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do you need to be spoonfed?

https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/huffpost-editor-says-new-years-resolution-is-to-kill-all-men.html

or the Clementine Ford #killallmen extravaganza?

And no, I never reported anything personally as I don't believe in deplatforming people.

That's a tweet they deleted. The entire argument is twitter has no problems leaving that sort of thing up is therefore invalid. That's why I asked for a source. Looks like someone screenshot something nobody would see, sent it to the usual right wing sites so they could all clutch their pearls and pretend to be offended.
On a side note, do you legitimately think she wants 50% of the worlds population killed?

mcmoustache · 27-02-2019 1:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I think they are reported much more favourably than people who would carry out the same/equivalent level of violence and disturbance if they had been wearing a MAGA hat.

That's possible. I don't know how active antifa these days but I thought that most of their activities were confined to acting the maggot at protests.

I do remember in my younger days that antifa were disliked at lefty protests. Well, them and the SWP. Both of those had a nasty habit of escalating things

Grayson · 27-02-2019 1:04pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Identity politics is based on dividing people into groups which ignore borders whereas nationalism is based around nationhood and emphasises strong borders.

And the biggest thing about identity politics is that it recognises that different groups face different challenges and that we should do something about it.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 27-02-2019 1:04pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

FYP.

Identity politics is about as far from traditional nationalism as you can get.

It’s literally just another form of nationalism, along with other isms.

In fact prior to the American colonisation of all our minds the term identity was often used in Northern Ireland for both sides.

ie

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44461166?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Of course more identities have now been added to the mix but it’s largely the same thing - group divisions based on nationality, race, sex and other newly invented groups.

27-02-2019 1:05pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what context would make

acceptable to you?

I don't know. Perhaps if I saw that one post was to "make war" on a particular terrorist organisation that was muslim, it wouldn't be so egregious.

Or if he was criticising extremists living in Luton who agree with beheading people by saying something like "how would they like it if we did the same to them"

Both could be interpreted as a post urging people to terrorise and behead muslims if they wanted to.

Again, I haven't seen the posts in question but there is likely more to the story. I could be wrong.

sirmanga · 27-02-2019 1:06pm

The left tell people how to live their lives.

The right just want to live their lives.

ancapailldorcha · 27-02-2019 1:06pm

Grayson wrote: »

And the biggest thing about identity politics is that it recognises that different groups face different challenges and that we should do something about it.

In theory. In practice, it's become something of a cottage industry for a lot of leftie student types and far right white nationalists.

27-02-2019 1:08pm

Cienciano wrote: »

That's a tweet they deleted. The entire argument is twitter has no problems leaving that sort of thing up is therefore invalid. That's why I asked for a source. Looks like someone screenshot something nobody would see, sent it to the usual right wing sites so they could all clutch their pearls and pretend to be offended.
On a side note, do you legitimately think she wants 50% of the worlds population killed?

They weren't required to do so, they just did so in order to escape a backlash.

It didn't offend me and no I don't legitimately think she wants 50% of the population killed. In much the same way that I don't think Tommy Robinson thinks all brown people are "Pakis" or all Muslims are evil. But I can see how some of his rhetoric could be framed that way.

ohnonotgmail · 27-02-2019 1:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know. Perhaps if I saw that one post was to "make war" on a particular terrorist organisation that was muslim, it wouldn't be so egregious.

Or if he was criticising extremists living in Luton who agree with beheading people by saying something like "how would they like it if we did the same to them"

Both could be interpreted as a post urging people to terrorise and behead muslims if they wanted to.

Again, I haven't seen the posts in question but there is likely more to the story. I could be wrong.

so, if he posted something urging people to terrorise and behead those who follow the Koran in Luton that would be ok with you?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 27-02-2019 1:09pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Identity politics is based on dividing people into groups which ignore borders whereas nationalism is based around nationhood and emphasises strong borders.

Ignoring borders? are you sure that’s relevant.

Nationalism is a form of identity. Identity politics in the US is primarily racial but there are other strands.

Both sides in Northern Ireland are nationalist, and both have identities. Politics in multinational states is often about playing off different sides, with quotas and political representation etc.

ancapailldorcha · 27-02-2019 1:10pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Ignoring borders? are you sure that’s relevant.

Nationalism is a form of identity. Identity politics in the US is primarily racial but there are other strands.

Both sides in Northern Ireland are nationalist, and both have identities. Politics in multinational states is often about playing off different sides, with quotas and political representation etc.

Fairly poor wording on my part. The right wing sort emphasises them of course and the NI example is a good one as well.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-02-2019 1:26pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Identity politics is based on dividing people into groups which ignore borders whereas nationalism is based around nationhood and emphasises strong borders.

More about accepting that they exist rather than dividing into. On the positive side, they will accept most people at first target you than making a point-blank decision or opinion based on a circumstance of birth.

On the negative, they tend to get obsessed with labels which define 'what' a person is, rather than 'who' a person is. THIS is where they mirror nationalism, but they aren't going to take up arms and invade different social groups.

Grayson · 27-02-2019 1:28pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Identity politics is based on dividing people into groups which ignore borders whereas nationalism is based around nationhood and emphasises strong borders.

I'd say identity politics recognises that groups exist within populations. gay people, different races etc. It's not creating divisions, it's recognising that these divisions exist and are detrimental to society.

mcmoustache · 27-02-2019 1:32pm

sirmanga wrote: »

The left tell people how to live their lives.

The right just want to live their lives.

Nice slogan you have there.

For your next trick, you should post a video when I ask you how you square the likes of the Iona "institute's" stance on gay marriage with the second part of your dumb slogan.

27-02-2019 1:41pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so, if he posted something urging people to terrorise and behead those who follow the Koran in Luton that would be ok with you?

How would you possibly take that from what I said?! I think it is quite obvious that I wouldn't be ok with that.

That is literally what I am talking about. Why would you allude to that?

ohnonotgmail · 27-02-2019 1:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

How would you possibly take that from what I said?! I think it is quite obvious that I wouldn't be ok with that.

That is literally what I am talking about. Why would you allude to that?

well you seem to be going out of your way to excuse what he says. Claiming that he isn't far right despite all the evidence that he is.

sirmanga · 27-02-2019 1:49pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Nice slogan you have there.

For your next trick, you should post a video when I ask you how you square the likes of the Iona "institute's" stance on gay marriage with the second part of your dumb slogan.

We've got a live one.

27-02-2019 1:58pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well you seem to be going out of your way to excuse what he says. Claiming that he isn't far right despite all the evidence that he is.

You asked me for my opinion. You literally said "post YOUR opinion". Replying to a question is hardly going out of my way.

I gave it. I said it was my opinion that Tommy Robinson wasn't far-right.

I never once said I would find a call to the terrorising or beheading of followers of the Koran acceptable.

You alluded that I did.

Can you not see how you are proving my point that it is easy for comments/opinions to be exaggerated and purposely misconstrued?

Billy86 · 27-02-2019 2:05pm

sirmanga wrote: »

Also, if they start banning people for saying nasty things about Muslim they'll have to ban people for making fun of Christians. Or at least they should, to be fair..

You should look into Facebook's role in the ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Myanmar, it might change your tone a bit.

ohnonotgmail · 27-02-2019 2:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You asked me for my opinion. You literally said "post YOUR opinion". Replying to a question is hardly going out of my way.

I gave it. I said it was my opinion that Tommy Robinson wasn't far-right.

I never once said I would find a call to the terrorising or beheading of followers of the Koran acceptable.

You alluded that I did.

Can you not see how you are proving my point that it is easy for comments/opinions to be exaggerated and purposely misconstrued?

well let us just look at what you said.

You said that in your opinion that tommy isn't far right but most of his supporters are. This is strange enough in itself but you have formed this opinion despite all the evidence to the contrary.

You then said that the posts that got him banned from FB were probably taken out of context. This is despite them being exactly the sort of thing that tommy has been saying for years.

You also seem to continually thank posts made by the far right posters here.

So to sum up you seem to want to be seen as some sort of moderate when nothing you have said or done suggests that.

Boggles · 27-02-2019 2:14pm

sirmanga wrote: »

The left tell people how to live their lives.

The right just want to live their lives.

Utter nonsense.

27-02-2019 2:31pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well let us just look at what you said.

You said that in your opinion that tommy isn't far right but most of his supporters are. This is strange enough in itself but you have formed this opinion despite all the evidence to the contrary.

You then said that the posts that got him banned from FB were probably taken out of context. This is despite them being exactly the sort of thing that tommy has been saying for years.

You also seem to continually thank posts made by the far right posters here.

So to sum up you seem to want to be seen as some sort of moderate when nothing you have said or done suggests that.

I said that a large amount of tommy robinson posters are far right. Not most.

I never said that the Facebook posts were PROBABLY taken out of context. I said I would be interested in seeing the facebook posts before I came to a conclusion as it is easy to misconstrue specific posts and label them racist if you wanted to do so. I am open to correction though as I haven't seen the evidence.

I don't think many posters on here are far right posters. I thank ones that I feel mention good points.

So to sum up, you are insisting that I am not a moderate by putting words in my mouth, the fact that I disagree with you and because I have noticed a bias in the media that labels people as far right when they aren't.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-02-2019 2:31pm

sirmanga wrote: »

mcmoustache wrote: »

Nice slogan you have there.

For your next trick, you should post a video when I ask you how you square the likes of the Iona "institute's" stance on gay marriage with the second part of your dumb slogan.

We've got a live one.

You'd have saved far more face if you'd simply not replied!

ohnonotgmail · 27-02-2019 2:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I said that a large amount of tommy robinson posters are far right. Not most.

I never said that the Facebook posts were PROBABLY taken out of context. I said I would be interested in seeing the facebook posts before I came to a conclusion as it is easy to misconstrue specific posts and label them racist if you wanted to do so. I am open to correction though as I haven't seen the evidence.

I don't think many posters on here are far right posters. I thank ones that I feel mention good points.

So to sum up, you are insisting that I am not a moderate by putting words in my mouth, the fact that I disagree with you and because I have noticed a bias in the media that labels people as far right when they aren't.

Funny how you only (or pretty much only) thank posts by those that support tommy.

Tommy Robinson jailed

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