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Tommy Robinson jailed

[Deleted User]

Apparently according to Lauren Southern, Tommy has been sentenced to 13 months but there is a UK wide embargo on reporting.

Anyone else got any info?

Edit. Not too sure about the authenticity of the embargo. I'm assuming that it's for this https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/tommy-robinson-arrested-leeds-court-child-grooming-trial-edl-founder-latest-a8368821.html?amp

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sirmanga

mcmoustache wrote: »

Nice slogan you have there.

For your next trick, you should post a video when I ask you how you square the likes of the Iona "institute's" stance on gay marriage with the second part of your dumb slogan.

We've got a live one.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

How would you possibly take that from what I said?! I think it is quite obvious that I wouldn't be ok with that.

That is literally what I am talking about. Why would you allude to that?

well you seem to be going out of your way to excuse what he says. Claiming that he isn't far right despite all the evidence that he is.

[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so, if he posted something urging people to terrorise and behead those who follow the Koran in Luton that would be ok with you?

How would you possibly take that from what I said?! I think it is quite obvious that I wouldn't be ok with that.

That is literally what I am talking about. Why would you allude to that?

mcmoustache

sirmanga wrote: »

The left tell people how to live their lives.

The right just want to live their lives.

Nice slogan you have there.

For your next trick, you should post a video when I ask you how you square the likes of the Iona "institute's" stance on gay marriage with the second part of your dumb slogan.

Grayson

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Identity politics is based on dividing people into groups which ignore borders whereas nationalism is based around nationhood and emphasises strong borders.

I'd say identity politics recognises that groups exist within populations. gay people, different races etc. It's not creating divisions, it's recognising that these divisions exist and are detrimental to society.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Identity politics is based on dividing people into groups which ignore borders whereas nationalism is based around nationhood and emphasises strong borders.

More about accepting that they exist rather than dividing into. On the positive side, they will accept most people at first target you than making a point-blank decision or opinion based on a circumstance of birth.

On the negative, they tend to get obsessed with labels which define 'what' a person is, rather than 'who' a person is. THIS is where they mirror nationalism, but they aren't going to take up arms and invade different social groups.

ancapailldorcha

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Ignoring borders? are you sure that’s relevant.

Nationalism is a form of identity. Identity politics in the US is primarily racial but there are other strands.

Both sides in Northern Ireland are nationalist, and both have identities. Politics in multinational states is often about playing off different sides, with quotas and political representation etc.

Fairly poor wording on my part. The right wing sort emphasises them of course and the NI example is a good one as well.

Franz Von Peppercorn

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Identity politics is based on dividing people into groups which ignore borders whereas nationalism is based around nationhood and emphasises strong borders.

Ignoring borders? are you sure that’s relevant.

Nationalism is a form of identity. Identity politics in the US is primarily racial but there are other strands.

Both sides in Northern Ireland are nationalist, and both have identities. Politics in multinational states is often about playing off different sides, with quotas and political representation etc.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know. Perhaps if I saw that one post was to "make war" on a particular terrorist organisation that was muslim, it wouldn't be so egregious.

Or if he was criticising extremists living in Luton who agree with beheading people by saying something like "how would they like it if we did the same to them"

Both could be interpreted as a post urging people to terrorise and behead muslims if they wanted to.

Again, I haven't seen the posts in question but there is likely more to the story. I could be wrong.

so, if he posted something urging people to terrorise and behead those who follow the Koran in Luton that would be ok with you?

[Deleted User]

Cienciano wrote: »

That's a tweet they deleted. The entire argument is twitter has no problems leaving that sort of thing up is therefore invalid. That's why I asked for a source. Looks like someone screenshot something nobody would see, sent it to the usual right wing sites so they could all clutch their pearls and pretend to be offended.
On a side note, do you legitimately think she wants 50% of the worlds population killed?

They weren't required to do so, they just did so in order to escape a backlash.

It didn't offend me and no I don't legitimately think she wants 50% of the population killed. In much the same way that I don't think Tommy Robinson thinks all brown people are "Pakis" or all Muslims are evil. But I can see how some of his rhetoric could be framed that way.

ancapailldorcha

Grayson wrote: »

And the biggest thing about identity politics is that it recognises that different groups face different challenges and that we should do something about it.

In theory. In practice, it's become something of a cottage industry for a lot of leftie student types and far right white nationalists.

sirmanga

The left tell people how to live their lives.

The right just want to live their lives.

[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what context would make

acceptable to you?

I don't know. Perhaps if I saw that one post was to "make war" on a particular terrorist organisation that was muslim, it wouldn't be so egregious.

Or if he was criticising extremists living in Luton who agree with beheading people by saying something like "how would they like it if we did the same to them"

Both could be interpreted as a post urging people to terrorise and behead muslims if they wanted to.

Again, I haven't seen the posts in question but there is likely more to the story. I could be wrong.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

FYP.

Identity politics is about as far from traditional nationalism as you can get.

It’s literally just another form of nationalism, along with other isms.

In fact prior to the American colonisation of all our minds the term identity was often used in Northern Ireland for both sides.

ie

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44461166?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Of course more identities have now been added to the mix but it’s largely the same thing - group divisions based on nationality, race, sex and other newly invented groups.

Grayson

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Identity politics is based on dividing people into groups which ignore borders whereas nationalism is based around nationhood and emphasises strong borders.

And the biggest thing about identity politics is that it recognises that different groups face different challenges and that we should do something about it.

mcmoustache

Deleted User wrote: »

I think they are reported much more favourably than people who would carry out the same/equivalent level of violence and disturbance if they had been wearing a MAGA hat.

That's possible. I don't know how active antifa these days but I thought that most of their activities were confined to acting the maggot at protests.

I do remember in my younger days that antifa were disliked at lefty protests. Well, them and the SWP. Both of those had a nasty habit of escalating things

Cienciano

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do you need to be spoonfed?

https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/huffpost-editor-says-new-years-resolution-is-to-kill-all-men.html

or the Clementine Ford #killallmen extravaganza?

And no, I never reported anything personally as I don't believe in deplatforming people.

That's a tweet they deleted. The entire argument is twitter has no problems leaving that sort of thing up is therefore invalid. That's why I asked for a source. Looks like someone screenshot something nobody would see, sent it to the usual right wing sites so they could all clutch their pearls and pretend to be offended.
On a side note, do you legitimately think she wants 50% of the worlds population killed?

ancapailldorcha

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

FYP.

Identity politics is about as far from traditional nationalism as you can get.

Identity politics is based on dividing people into groups which ignore borders whereas nationalism is based around nationhood and emphasises strong borders.

Grayson

Deleted User wrote: »

See, I never said he was "a great lad". I just don't think he is far right.

I also would be interested in seeing those particular facebook posts in their context before coming to a full opinion.

He stood in a muslim neighborhood and said that the people who lived in the houses there were enemy combatants who wanted to kill everyone else. That's pretty far right.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The Identity politics of nationalism have started most wars in fact.

All that “white” reaction to identity politics is is itself identity politics.

FYP.

Identity politics perfers to the personal identiy and is about as far from traditional nationalism/national identity as you can get.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

See, I never said he was "a great lad". I just don't think he is far right.

I also would be interested in seeing those particular facebook posts in their context before coming to a full opinion.

what context would make

a post urging people to terrorise and behead those who follow the Koran
a post urging people to "make war" on Muslims

acceptable to you?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

No, they would want everyone to have an 50-50 chance of attaining these positions. BIG difference.

Only about 0.01% have a realistic chance of becoming a CEO.

Here's one for you: identity politics have never attempted genocide or started a world war.

The Identity politics of nationalism have started most wars in fact.

All that “white” reaction to identity politics is is itself identity politics.

[Deleted User]

mcmoustache wrote: »

I have to stop you there. Are antifa that mainstream? I thought that the general consensus, even among people who would describe themselves as being on the left, was that they were generally crust trouble-makers. I don't even know who their high-profile figures are but I could list a heap of high-profile alt-right figures without even straining myself.

I think they are reported much more favourably than people who would carry out the same/equivalent level of violence and disturbance if they had been wearing a MAGA hat.

[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Yeah, tommy is a great lad. Not in the least bit far right.

See, I never said he was "a great lad". I just don't think he is far right.

I also would be interested in seeing those particular facebook posts in their context before coming to a full opinion.

mcmoustache

Deleted User wrote: »

I feel that while often hard left views are tolerated (and sometimes encouraged) by the media (antifa etc),

I have to stop you there. Are antifa that mainstream? I thought that the general consensus, even among people who would describe themselves as being on the left, was that they were generally crust trouble-makers. I don't even know who their high-profile figures are but I could list a heap of high-profile alt-right figures without even straining myself.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't consider myself as a supporter of Tommy Robinson but I certainly think that the level of hatred that he receives is unwarranted. I wouldn't consider him far right but agree that a large number of his supporters could be.

I feel that while often hard left views are tolerated (and sometimes encouraged) by the media (antifa etc), anything that veers right regarding transgender, islam, mens rights, abortion etc is shut down or exaggerated to make them seem bigotted and hatefilled.

Yeah, tommy is a great lad. Not in the least bit far right.

According to Facebook, a written warning had been sent to Mr Robinson last month about a number of posts on his page that had violated its community standards, including:
a post calling Muslims "filthy scum bags"
a post urging people to terrorise and behead those who follow the Koran
a post urging people to "make war" on Muslims
multiple videos depicting individuals being bullied

mcmoustache

Deleted User wrote: »

Listening to other peoples opinions about events and putting them there for people to view themselves is hardly a crime.

I would prefer to watch a video that people with opposing views found enlightening or interesting and make up my own opinion.

I can understand posting a video as a form of argument in something like a tinker call-out situation. There's also no harm putting up videos in general to support a point being made. It's where someone insists that you watch a video because they can't string a point together that I have a problem and it's happening more and more these days.

To give an example, adding a video to show evidence that Tommy did something or other is fine. Putting up a meandering 2-hour Jordan Peterson video in response to being asked to explain whatever the hell cultural marxism is is not fine.

[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Thats all great. So post YOUR opinions then. Linking to a video you watched is not posting an opinion. This is a discussion site not a video link dump. And they are generally not posted so others who do want to watch them can watch them. They are posted as a rebuttal to another users post. A link to a video is not a rebuttal.

I wouldn't consider myself as a supporter of Tommy Robinson but I certainly think that the level of hatred that he receives is unwarranted. I wouldn't consider him far right but agree that a large number of his supporters could be.

I feel that while often hard left views are tolerated (and sometimes encouraged) by the media (antifa etc), anything that veers right regarding transgender, islam, mens rights, abortion etc is shut down or exaggerated to make them seem bigotted and hatefilled.

[Deleted User]

Cienciano wrote: »

He deleted the tweet and issued an apology. Has Alex Jones or Tommy Robinson done the same?

Have you links to these accounts or tweets? Have you reported any?

Why do you need to be spoonfed?

https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/huffpost-editor-says-new-years-resolution-is-to-kill-all-men.html

or the Clementine Ford #killallmen extravaganza?

And no, I never reported anything personally as I don't believe in deplatforming people.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

Listening to other peoples opinions about events and putting them there for people to view themselves is hardly a crime.

I would prefer to watch a video that people with opposing views found enlightening or interesting and make up my own opinion.

I presume (and I could be wrong) that if people summarised a video for you, you would pick arguments out of context due to the fact that a)you haven't seen the video and b) have demonstrated that you have no intention on being open minded that you could be proven wrong.

I know that I base my opinions after hearing as much information as possible. If you don't want to watch a video, don't. But to slate people for providing them to people who do want to watch them is a little silly.

I get that people hate Tommy Robinson. Some people don't. They both aren't necessarily wrong.

Thats all great. So post YOUR opinions then. Linking to a video you watched is not posting an opinion. This is a discussion site not a video link dump. And they are generally not posted so others who do want to watch them can watch them. They are posted as a rebuttal to another users post. A link to a video is not a rebuttal.