Anti-vaxxers

skepticalme · 04-02-2019 7:58pm

Martina1991 wrote: »

From that article you posted "between 2% and 10% don’t develop expected antibodies after receiving the recommended two shots. Because different people have different genetic makeups, the vaccine is simply a dud in many, failing to provide the protection they think they’ve acquired".

No vaccine is 100% effective for all recipients. Vaccinations are always dangerous for immunocompromised people, we know this already.
Two doses of MMR vaccine are 97% effective against measles and 88% effective against mumps. One dose of MMR vaccine is 93% effective against measles, 78% effective against mumps, and 97% effective against rubella.

The benefits far outweigh the risks when it comes to vaccination.

You forgot this part.

The answer, according to Dr. Poland, lies in our genes. Because of their genetic predisposition, some people will not respond to the current measles vaccine, even with additional boosters. By the same token, the genetic predisposition of others makes them susceptible to harm from the measles vaccine, leading to public wariness, including among the well educated. What is needed, suggests Dr. Poland, is for the public health establishment to accept that the current measles vaccine has so many drawbacks as to make it unworkable, and get on with the job of developing next-generation vaccines.

Herd immunity through vaccination with regard to measles is a myth. How can the required 95% population be vaccinated. Between the % that will not respond, the % that cannot be vaccinated and the fact that an individual needs constant boosters throughout their life as immunity wanes. I would argue that unless all adults have had measles or have gotten boosters, they are in the same catagory as unvaccinated children. Children cannot on their own as a % of the population reach the required 95%.
When the older generation are gone, those who had measles and are actually immune and contributing to herd immunity, it is predicted there will be bigger outbreaks of measles. All that has happened is we've stopped children getting measles at the safest age 3 to 7 . Babies are more at risk now than they ever were as their mothers have no natural immunity to pass on and older people are more at risk as immunity wanes. Measles is more dangerous in babies and older people.

ancapailldorcha · 04-02-2019 8:04pm

I see.

You've given up on using Autistic people as subhuman pawns so now you're peddling this crap. Have you any source that shows that herd immunity is unattainable? It would save a lot of governments a lot of cash.

TheRepentent · 04-02-2019 8:05pm

skepticalme wrote: »

Herd immunity through vaccination with regard to measles is a myth.

Go away with your sh1te...already been debunked.

skepticalme · 04-02-2019 8:07pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I see.

You've given up on using Autistic people as subhuman pawns so now you're peddling this crap. Have you any source that shows that herd immunity is unattainable? It would save a lot of governments a lot of cash.

Thats a disgusting thing to say.

Igotadose · 04-02-2019 8:07pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I see.

You've given up on using Autistic people as subhuman pawns so now you're peddling this crap. Have you any source that shows that herd immunity is unattainable? It would save a lot of governments a lot of cash.

He also ignores Poland saying "We eliminated it in 2000." Was that due to 100% vaccination rates? I think not.

And Poland's calling for a better measles vaccine. That's certainly supportable, why not have a better vaccine.

skepticalme · 04-02-2019 8:07pm

TheRepentent wrote: »

Go away with your sh1te...already been debunked.

Source?

pjohnson · 04-02-2019 8:08pm

skepticalme wrote: »

Thats a disgusting thing to say.

Pot meet kettle and all the rubbish you've vomited out here.

skepticalme · 04-02-2019 8:10pm

Igotadose wrote: »

He also ignores Poland saying "We eliminated it in 2000." Was that due to 100% vaccination rates? I think not.

And Poland's calling for a better measles vaccine. That's certainly supportable, why not have a better vaccine.

1. I said nothing about people with autism.

2. There were still cases in 200, eliminated does not mean no cases of measles,

ancapailldorcha · 04-02-2019 8:10pm

skepticalme wrote: »

Thats a disgusting thing to say.

It's what you've been doing.

Now, prove that herd immunity is a myth please.

skepticalme · 04-02-2019 8:13pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's what you've been doing.

Now, prove that herd immunity is a myth please.

Do you ever have any science or just insults?
Poland just explained why.
Have you any proof that measles herd immunity is not a myth?

TheRepentent · 04-02-2019 8:13pm

skepticalme wrote: »

Source?

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

ancapailldorcha · 04-02-2019 8:14pm

skepticalme wrote: »

Do you ever have any science or just insults?
Poland just explained why.
Have you any proof that measles herd immunity is not a myth?

I didn't make the claim.

Whenever you're ready.

mzungu · 04-02-2019 9:19pm

skepticalme wrote: »

Do you ever have any science or just insults?
Poland just explained why.
Have you any proof that measles herd immunity is not a myth?

No, he didn't . You copy and pasted from an anti-vaxx article. Might I add it was a heavily biased interpretation of what he said. I believe it dates back to a 2012 paper he wrote.

He did state it would be great to have a better measles vaccine (and why not?) because it is one of the most contagious diseases out there. He also made sure to point out that the current vaccine has been a success and has saved countless lives and will continue to do so. He did comment on the difficulty of achieving full eradication (again, no real shocks there) as in some pockets you do get resurgences. In short, he NEVER said that "herd immunity was a myth", he commented on the struggle of achieving full eradication. Yes, we have not been able to do it. But if we are to do it, then we probably should start researching next-generation vaccines so we can do it. In a nutshell that's what he said. There is nothing controversial there. It's basically playing a riff on the old cliche of "we have a lot of work done, but we still have loads more to do."

I have provided a link to Dr. Poland's 2012 paper for your perusal.

Link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3905323/

skepticalme wrote: »

Have you any proof that measles herd immunity is not a myth?

Sorry there, but it's you that needs to provide the proof of your spook stories. There is plenty of evidence that vaccines work and that is backed up by decades of research.

Capt'n Midnight · 04-02-2019 9:50pm

Somedaythefire wrote: »

Isn't this, in the lack of any evidence, the same as saying there must be something sinister about oxygen, because everyone who breathes it in, eventually dies?

Ah but oxygen is toxic.
And we understand mechanisms that might cause this. c.f antioxidants.
And we have stats that indicate that reducing your intake might reduce your risk.

We don't have similar evidence to suggest that vaccines cause autism or how it would do that. Also even if they did the evidence is that the risk outweighs the reward.

Somedaythefire · 04-02-2019 10:00pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Ah but oxygen is toxic.
And we understand mechanisms that might cause this. c.f antioxidants.
And we have stats that indicate that reducing your intake might reduce your risk.

We don't have similar evidence to suggest that vaccines cause autism or how it would do that. Also even if they did the evidence is that the risk outweighs the reward.

Haha I knew someone would bring it up. Simply chose oxygen because it's needed to live.

Capt'n Midnight · 04-02-2019 10:04pm

Orion wrote: »

They do that too. As I mentioned in an earlier post there is a huge overlap between:
Antivaxxers

Urmagurd chemtrail morons

Climate change deniers

and should have added:
MAGA Trumpites

Flouride clowns

Gemma supporters

and for quite a lot in Ireland - Gilroy-style yellow vests.

Remember mobile phone masts ?
- most people either have the phone near their brain or pocked near their genitals

Infrasound. From Wind Turbines is bad, but there's far worse from ocean waves.

Dirty electricity. A low power shielded device in your home is somehow worse than the megawatts of radio we've been blasting all over the place for over a hundred years.

Overhead pylons. Unless you are also campaigning for undergrounding the 220KV lines that go through housing estates...

The problem is that you can't argue with a religion.

Orion · 04-02-2019 10:33pm

skepticalme wrote: »

Do you ever have any science or just insults?
Poland just explained why.
Have you any proof that measles herd immunity is not a myth?

You're the one claiming that science is lying about herd immunity. Defend that claim with reliable sources.

VicMackey1 · 06-02-2019 6:31am

Not sure if this has been posted already but I would urge any anti-vaxxers to watch this. Facts only seem to have a negative impact on their ability to come to a sensible conclusion regarding vaccines. This video might stand a better chance at seeping through the brain barrier. I fear that is a pretty thick barrier though!

Dohnjoe · 07-02-2019 10:10pm

For the anti-vaxxers and the "pretending to be skeptics but are really just trying to plant doubt about vaccines" types (yeah we aren't stupid)

Simple, easy-to-digest video on how measles attacks our bodies and why it's important to vaccinate

gctest50 · 08-02-2019 9:45am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

For the anti-vaxxers and the "pretending to be skeptics but are really just trying to plant doubt about vaccines" types (yeah we aren't stupid)

Simple, easy-to-digest video on how measles attacks our bodies and why it's important to vaccinate

Nothing like a bit of measles to make them rediscover science :

Washington’s Clark County, a fast-growing region north of Portland, Ore., orders for two types of measles vaccines went up more than 500% in January 2019, compared with the same month in 2018.

The Times also noted that Clark County has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the state

http://fortune.com/2019/02/06/measles-outbreak-2019-vaccine-anti-vaxx/

kylith · 08-02-2019 6:51pm

gctest50 wrote: »

Nothing like a bit of measles to make them rediscover science :

'Why do people even vaccinate against measles, it's just a childhood illness? It's not that ba..' *sees someone with measles* 'OMG give me all the vaccines!'

Paddy Cow · 08-02-2019 7:40pm

kylith wrote: »

'Why do people even vaccinate against measles, it's just a childhood illness? It's not that ba..' *sees someone with measles* 'OMG give me all the vaccines!'

This is the problem. People are generations removed from the times when illness saw half of children die before reaching age five. The invention of antibiotics and vaccines is what lead to population explosion in the 20th century. Now we take it for granted that children will reach adulthood. Advances in medicine and science mean we live comfortable lives and are protected from the horrors of outbreaks that decimated populations in the past. I'd say the last great outbreak was the Spanish flu of 1918.

The need for vaccines became an intellectual debate but once people had to face the reality of an outbreak, they saw sense.

Igotadose · 09-02-2019 12:59am

gctest50 wrote: »

Nothing like a bit of measles to make them rediscover science :

Up to 51 now, and 4 cases on Oregon too. The latter's no surprise it's just across a bridge from Portland to Clark Co.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.oregonlive.com/business/2019/02/vancouver-area-measles-outbreak-reaches-56-people.html%3foutputType=amp

Oregon kindergartners lowest vaccine rates in country.
https://www.opb.org/news/article/measles-vaccination-exemption-law-oregon-greenlick/

kylith · 09-02-2019 12:34pm

Paddy Cow wrote: »

This is the problem. People are generations removed from the times when illness saw half of children die before reaching age five. The invention of antibiotics and vaccines is what lead to population explosion in the 20th century. Now we take it for granted that children will reach adulthood. Advances in medicine and science mean we live comfortable lives and are protected from the horrors of outbreaks that decimated populations in the past. I'd say the last great outbreak was the Spanish flu of 1918.

The need for vaccines became an intellectual debate but once people had to face the reality of an outbreak, they saw sense.

I've said many times that vaccines are victims of their own success. Our parents and grandparents would have seen their peers become disabled or die due to these diseases, so they made sure that their children were vaccinated. Those children now have no idea of the reality of diseases like mumps or rubella so they have the impression that the tiny risk of a reaction to the vaccine is worse than the reality of measles.

Bitches Be Trypsin · 09-02-2019 12:38pm

kylith wrote: »

I've said many times that vaccines are victims of their own success. Our parents and grandparents would have seen their peers become disabled or die due to these diseases, so they made sure that their children were vaccinated. Those children now have no idea of the reality of diseases like mumps or rubella so they have the impression that the tiny risk of a reaction to the vaccine is worse than the reality of measles.

But for the tiny percentage that has the reaction to the vaccine, the reaction can be worse than the measles.

batgoat · 09-02-2019 12:40pm

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

But for the tiny percentage that has the reaction to the vaccine, the reaction can be worse than the measles.

Benefit outweighs the risk, this is the reality.

Bitches Be Trypsin · 09-02-2019 12:41pm

batgoat wrote: »

Benefit outweighs the risk, this is the reality.

It's not the reality for the unlucky person who falls in the 0.1% reaction category though.

VicMackey1 · 09-02-2019 1:30pm

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

It's not the reality for the unlucky person who falls in the 0.1% reaction category though.

Serious adverse events following the MMR vaccine would be more like 0.0001%

Dohnjoe · 09-02-2019 1:30pm

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

It's not the reality for the unlucky person who falls in the 0.1% reaction category though.

Yeah but for the other 99.9%. It's not like there's a choice of 100% either.

Brian? · 09-02-2019 1:37pm

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

It's not the reality for the unlucky person who falls in the 0.1% reaction category though.

So we don’t vaccinate based on this ?

Anti-vaxxers

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