Anti-vaxxers

mzungu

Encephalopathy wrote: »

Would be curious to know to know if anyone has actually met an "antivaxxer"?(in the real world)
If so, have they said to you, you shouldn't vaccinate? Bet they didn't.

All they we want is safer vaccines and the right to choose.

https://m.youtube(DOT)com/watch?v=RfkkdCg2830

Great speech start to finish, how the pro vaccine folk are against this is beyond me.

And now the buzzword bingo is complete. :rolleyes:

Most anti-vaxxers I have met would usually have a load of other conspiracies they want to tell you about. I find the company of people like that draining tbh. The rest were misguided and naive people that would think that just because some person somewhere with qualifications (dubious or otherwise) said something, then it must be true. Neither had done much reading beyond Facebook shares and various online cliques that are into that kind of thing.

To be honest, I won't be watching that link. It features Del Bigtree, the man that made the movie Vaxxed. The same movie that based its entire (false) narrative around the ramblings of an anti-vaccination activist (Brian Hooker) that had his spurious "study" redacted because he made things up out of thin air (a recurring theme with anti-vaccination activists).

ancapailldorcha

Encephalopathy wrote: »

Would be curious to know to know if anyone has actually met an "antivaxxer"?(in the real world)
If so, have they said to you, you shouldn't vaccinate? Bet they didn't.

All they we want is safer vaccines and the right to choose.

https://m.youtube(DOT)com/watch?v=RfkkdCg2830

Great speech start to finish, how the pro vaccine folk are against this is beyond me.

Yeah, the pretense at moderation while using sick and dead children as pawns is convincing nobody I'm afraid.

Is there any chance of you bothering to make your point instead of dumping more of this intellectual diarrhoea on this thread or am I just asking too much?

Dohnjoe

Encephalopathy wrote: »

Would be curious to know to know if anyone has actually met an "antivaxxer"?(in the real world)
If so, have they said to you, you shouldn't vaccinate? Bet they didn't.

All they we want is safer vaccines and the right to choose.

I've know several, they are idiots who think that "moms" are an authority over hundreds of years of medical science. Unfortunately the internet/social media has given these idiots a voice.

Orion

Encephalopathy wrote: »

All they we want is safer vaccines and the right to choose.

You have the right to choose. But society also has the right to tell you to keep your disease carriers away from other children, the sick and the elderly. So no school, creche, doctor's surgeries, hospitals, etc.

waxmoth

Igotadose wrote: »

No, Gorksi points out correctly that Zimmerman's testimony was not consequential to the OAP, which was about MMR and Autism. Zimmerman agreed no link between vaccines and autism. Zimmerman didn't testify but his information was included in the deposition. So, the government covered up nothing. Zimmerman's point that the anti-vax zealots like RFK, jr. like to bring up, is that Zimmerman believes there's a mitochondrial component to autism that might be activated by vaccines in rare cases (that's in the affidavit too.) As that wasn't what the OAP was about, it wasn't brought in.

Good analysis here: https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/anti-vaccine-activists-revive-hannah-poling-case/

Dr. Zimmerman’s affidavit is unequivocal. He was due to give evidence to the OAP. When he clarified his opinion on the exceptions where vaccination could cause autism he got a call to say he wouldn’t be needed at the hearing. His original case specific opinion was then read out without context or qualification.

From the affidavit.

19. In my opinion, the statement by Mr. Matanoski during his closing argument regarding my expert opinion was highly misleading and not an accurate reflection of my opinion for two reasons. First, Mr. Matanoski took portions of my opinion out of context. My opinion as to Michelle Cedillo was case specific. I was only referring to the medical evidence that I had reviewed regarding her. My opinion regarding Michelle Cedillo was not intended to be a blanket statement as to all children and all medical science. Second, I explained to Mr. Matanoski and the other DOJ attorneys who were present that there were exceptions in which vaccinations could cause autism.
20. In my opinion, it was highly misleading for the Department of Justice to continue to use my original written expert opinion, as to Michelle Cedillo, as evidence against the remaining petitioners in the OAP in light of the above referenced information which I explained to the DOJ attorneys while omitting the caveat regarding exceptions in which vaccinations could cause autism.

ancapailldorcha

waxmoth wrote: »

Dr. Zimmerman’s affidavit is unequivocal. He was due to give evidence to the OAP. When he clarified his opinion on the exceptions where vaccination could cause autism he got a call to say he wouldn’t be needed at the hearing. His original case specific opinion was then read out without context or qualification.

From the affidavit.

Where is the proof for this?

Guy:Incognito

Encephalopathy wrote: »

Would be curious to know to know if anyone has actually met an "antivaxxer"?(in the real world)
If so, have they said to you, you shouldn't vaccinate? Bet they didn't.

All they we want is safer vaccines and the right to choose.

https://m.youtube(DOT)com/watch?v=RfkkdCg2830

Great speech start to finish, how the pro vaccine folk are against this is beyond me.

Ah, we're back to this part now. Funny, someone else in this thread, a few months back, with a different username, switched to the same thing after not backing up the rest of their points..........

Igotadose

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Where is the proof for this?

The skeptical raptor analysis I linked to earlier covers these issues pretty well. To paraphrase:

1. The government isn't required to use their own witnesses if they don't want to
2. Zimmerman's testimony was a small part of the overall report filed. The anti-vaxxers forget that the OAP was all about debunking Wakefield's harmful garbage, which it succeeded at doing. Zimmerman himself is pretty harsh in his statements about Wakefield. The OAP was entirely about thimerisol & autism.
3. Zimmerman was unhappy that he wasn't called as a witness, and that his comment about one specific case (Cedillo) was used to generalize in an argument by one of the DOJ attorneys.

As Gorski points out, it's likely RFK jr persuaded Zimmerman to file his affidavit. Nice analysis here:https://respectfulinsolence.com/2019/01/09/sharyl-attkisson-is-back/

ancapailldorcha

Igotadose wrote: »

The skeptical raptor analysis I linked to earlier covers these issues pretty well.

I'm sure it does.

I was asking Waxmoth as he just posted someone else's opinion.

Guy:Incognito

Just popped in to my head now when I saw a thread about pets on the main page. Do anti vaxxers get their pets vaccinated?

Igotadose

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Just popped in to my head now when I saw a thread about pets on the main page. Do anti vaxxers get their pets vaccinated?

They're consistent in their stupidity:

"
The anti-vaxxers have a new target in their sights – pets
A growing movement of animal anti-vaccine advocates claim that immunising cats and dogs can cause a range of diseases and disorders – including autism "

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/jan/24/anti-vaxxers-new-target-their-sights-pets

Poor pets. Shorter lives due to stupid owners. Well, kind of exactly like what they're doing to their children and other people.

Capt'n Midnight

There’s been a measles resurgence.
The World Health Organisation has warned it’s due to ‘Anti-Vaxxers’ which I find a demeaning word...

I prefer ‘Pro-Plague’.

batgoat

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

There’s been a measles resurgence.
The World Health Organisation has warned it’s due to ‘Anti-Vaxxers’ which I find a demeaning word...

I prefer ‘Pro-Plague’.

The pro plaguers are perfectly reasonable, one person told them something ergo the randomer's statement is entirely legitimate.

Dohnjoe

After the measles outbreak around Atlanta, one anti-vaxxer asked how to keep her 3 year old safe. Good responses

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/as-measles-outbreak-spreads-one-anti--vaxxer-asks-how-to-keep-her-child-safe-2019-01-31

Paddy Cow

Igotadose wrote: »

They're consistent in their stupidity:

"
The anti-vaxxers have a new target in their sights – pets
A growing movement of animal anti-vaccine advocates claim that immunising cats and dogs can cause a range of diseases and disorders – including autism "

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/jan/24/anti-vaxxers-new-target-their-sights-pets

Poor pets. Shorter lives due to stupid owners. Well, kind of exactly like what they're doing to their children and other people.

Please tell me that's not real. I've joked a few times that I don't get my dogs vaccinated* because I don't want them to get autism but I was just taking the p!ss out of anti-vaxxers. Are people really that thick?

* All my dogs are up to date with vaccinations.

skepticalme

Igotadose wrote: »

The gift of the anti-vax religion: a state of emergency in WA state, 35 cases of measles and no doubt more to come.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/26/health/washington-state-measles-state-of-emergency/index.html

Not so much gift of anti vaxers as vaccine failure, waning immunity and measles herd immunity myth.


To make matters worse, even when the vaccine takes, the protection quickly wanes, making it unrealistic to achieve the 95%-plus level of immunity in the general population thought necessary to protect public health. For example, 9% of children having two doses of the vaccine, as public health authorities now recommend, will have lost their immunity after just seven and a half years. As more time passes, more lose their immunity. “This leads to a paradoxical situation whereby measles in highly immunized societies occurs primarily among those previously immunized,” Dr. Poland stated.

The measles vaccine’s inadequacy doesn’t end there, however. It “cannot be administered to those who are immunocompromised, who have allergies to vaccine components, or who are pregnant [among other limitations, leaving] a large enough segment of the population susceptible and unprotected from measles such that cases will continue to occur.”


https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/lawrence-solomon-vaccines-cant-prevent-measles-outbreaks?fbclid=IwAR3um4rh0nykDjzJoPU-dclmVqsnHtAZO-77ZCiFhsN8wrHYcqdqsLZ4xUU



Spotted this at the bottom of your CNN link.

Correction: This article and an accompanying video previously included a photograph of a child with a rash linked to a vaccination. The image has been removed.
Ooops!

Igotadose

skepticalme wrote: »

Not so much gift of anti vaxers as vaccine failure, waning immunity and measles herd immunity myth.

Highest proportion of non-vaccinated in WA state in Clark County, and that's a failure of vaccines and waning immunity? This outbreak's entirely due to anti-vaxxer activity like what you routine advocate.

Oh, there's an outbreak in Atlanta now, too. Congratulations. And, if you are so sure they're bad, send your children unvaccinated to sub-saharan Africa. That'll build up their immunities quickly.

Dohnjoe

skepticalme wrote: »

Not so much gift of anti vaxers as vaccine failure, waning immunity and measles herd immunity myth.

I must be missing something here. The measles vaccination resulted in an 80% drop in deaths from measles (2000 to 2017)

Before the vaccination was introduced in 1963 an estimated 2.6 million people were dying from it each year

Deaths from measles were around 100,000 in 2016

What point are you trying to make?

Gonad

Explain this ?

https://youtu.be/GPHZFQFpZrY

ancapailldorcha

Gonad wrote: »

Explain this ?

https://youtu.be/GPHZFQFpZrY

It's a link dump.

You can't be bothered or are unable to provide a cogent argument so you just spurt this sort of diarrhoea here. It's quite simple.

Gonad

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's a link dump.

You can't be bothered or are unable to provide a cogent argument so you just spurt this sort of diarrhoea here. It's quite simple.

So you can’t explain that one then ?

Can you explain how my kid has autisim ? My sisters kid had it ? How my best friends kid has it How my cousins kid has it ? How about 8 of my workmates kids have it ?

How nearly everyone you speak to is affected by it these days ?

Anyone that denies something strange is going on is in complete denial . It’s actually disturbing at this stage .

ancapailldorcha

Gonad wrote: »

So you can’t explain that one then ?

Can you explain how my kid has autisim ? My sisters kid had it ? How my best friends kid has it How my cousins kid has it ? How about 8 of my workmates kids have it ?

How nearly everyone you speak to is affected by it these days ?

Anyone that denies something strange is going on is in complete denial . It’s actually disturbing at this stage .

Nearly everyone has autism. Link please?

By the way, what's disturbing is that you are using austic people as pawns to push your anti-intellectual agenda as if they're somehow less than human. It's sick.

Gonad

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Nearly everyone has autism. Link please?

By the way, what's disturbing is that you are using austic people as pawns to push your anti-intellectual agenda as if they're somehow less than human. It's sick.

What’s sick is the way you are trying to twist what I said . You know what I mean .

amcalester

Gonad wrote: »

So you can’t explain that one then ?

Can you explain how my kid has autisim ? My sisters kid had it ? How my best friends kid has it How my cousins kid has it ? How about 8 of my workmates kids have it ?

How nearly everyone you speak to is affected by it these days ?

Anyone that denies something strange is going on is in complete denial . It’s actually disturbing at this stage .

1 in 100 have autism and about 8 of your colleagues have children with autism, seems unlikely.

And why about 8? They either do or don’t, do the number should be definite.

coffee_cake

Yeah smallpox scars and iron lungs and death would definitely be better than autism

like what
are we seriously all going to be subjected to a worldwide epidemic because of some cranks getting internet access

Brian?

Gonad wrote: »

So you can’t explain that one then ?

Can you explain how my kid has autisim ? My sisters kid had it ? How my best friends kid has it How my cousins kid has it ? How about 8 of my workmates kids have it ?

How nearly everyone you speak to is affected by it these days ?

Anyone that denies something strange is going on is in complete denial . It’s actually disturbing at this stage .

I’m not sure I believe your child is on the autistic spectrum. Mainly because you say the child “has autism”, it’s not a disease you catch. I’ve never heard anyone with a child on the spectrum say their child “had autism”.

Anyway, let’s say it’s true. Where are they on the Spectrum? Your friends kids, where are they on the spectrum?

skepticalme

Igotadose wrote: »

Highest proportion of non-vaccinated in WA state in Clark County, and that's a failure of vaccines and waning immunity? This outbreak's entirely due to anti-vaxxer activity like what you routine advocate.

Oh, there's an outbreak in Atlanta now, too. Congratulations. And, if you are so sure they're bad, send your children unvaccinated to sub-saharan Africa. That'll build up their immunities quickly.

Where did you get that nugget of information? Its not even correct. Did you even bother to look at the data link in the cnn link you posted?

As for Atlanta, there were 3 family members, all recovered now. The fearmongering is unbelievable.

skepticalme

Gonad wrote: »

Explain this ?

https://youtu.be/GPHZFQFpZrY

That is one sad story.

ancapailldorcha

Gonad wrote: »

What’s sick is the way you are trying to twist what I said . You know what I mean .

I know exactly what you mean.

kylith

Encephalopathy wrote: »

Would be curious to know to know if anyone has actually met an "antivaxxer"?(in the real world)
If so, have they said to you, you shouldn't vaccinate? Bet they didn't.

All they we want is safer vaccines and the right to choose.

https://m.youtube(DOT)com/watch?v=RfkkdCg2830

Great speech start to finish, how the pro vaccine folk are against this is beyond me.

I have. I was asked if I planned to vaccinate my then unborn child.

'Of course' I said.

'Why?' she said, 'My son had a bad reaction to a vaccine'

'Well,' I said, 'I used to work with a woman who was in a wheelchair because of childhood polio, so of course I intend to vaccinate'.

'But not the BCG!' she said 'Only prostitutes get that disease'

'My brother's friend contracted TB while backpacking across Europe, so if the BCG is still offered of course we'll get it.'

So yes, I have met an anti-vaxxer, and while she did not actively try to argue with me because it's difficult to argue against 'I know people who have been damaged for life by lack of vaccination, and also I haven't been inoculated against chicken pox and could die from it*', she did try to say that I should not vaccinate my child.


*I have since discovered that I was, but I'm from a big family and my mother forgot who had and hadn't been vaccinated.