Another American backed coup happening in Venezuela

Spannerplank · 04-02-2019 08:49PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

because the free bus wasnt going to pick them up till it was done.... also that article is about one specific rally which may not be representetive of them all, clearly they hand out food at some of them if this man made the effort to go in search of it there.

In 2017 the workers party had an all white middle class protest outside the US embassy when it looked increasingly likely that there would be involvement there.
Venezuelans living here were so incensed by this that they held a counter protest. I think they'd know best about what they're protesting , being from Venezuela and whatnot.

You seem to know all about free buses, and what people eat and the numbers of flamingos that (have lived) in the country until they were all eaten. You know that they have rice and beans to offset their need to catch and eat vermin.

If you are absolutely starving to the point of needing to eat a rat then there should be piles of starved corpses everywhere. But there aren't.

Gatling · 04-02-2019 08:52PM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Type in google Yemen starving and look at the images. The US is supporting this war against the people of Yemen. The west is allowing this to happen and nobody stopping it.

Whataboutwhat

Venezuela not Yemen.

Spannerplank · 04-02-2019 08:54PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

these ones.

You didn't post these in 282.

What is the source of these pictures and who took them?

Cheerful Spring · 04-02-2019 09:07PM

Gatling wrote: »

So America who was spending billions on Venezuelan oil is to blame for the sheer incompetence and waste mudoro and Chavez before him.
Don't forget the 50 million in US aid last year

But it's all Americas fault

The economic crisis has a lot to do with low oil prices, and sanctions from the US
designed to weaken Maduro hold over the country. When they have less money social programs are hit hardest and the poor suffer the most compared to the rich and middle class.

Spannerplank · 04-02-2019 09:12PM

Good loser wrote: »

Are those enough for you Spanner?

The evidence is overwhelming; rabbiting on about flamingos and rats is reprehensible given the scale of the starvation crisis imposed on these poor people. By an incompetent, utterly corrupt killer - Maduro.

I see pictures of emaciated people.

I've yet to see evidence of people eating rats in Venezuela.

Who are these pictures of?

Who are those 3 boys in what looks like a borstal or detention centre?

Who is the old man? And the woman with the little girl?

Who took these pictures?

Gatling · 04-02-2019 09:22PM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The economic crisis has a lot to do with low oil prices,

But they are beneficiaries of American money but it's all Americas fault ,
800+ billion in debt yet let's blame everyone else yeah

Gatling · 04-02-2019 09:23PM

Spannerplank wrote: »

I see pictures of emaciated people.

I've yet to see evidence of people eating rats in Venezuela.

Who are these pictures of?

Who are those 3 boys in what looks like a borstal or detention centre?

Who is the old man? And the woman with the little girl?

Who took these pictures?

Names , addresses and postcodes ?

Eric Cartman · 04-02-2019 09:29PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE4Fxl8vKwY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MGbyLUCw5k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25_0sFv7leo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-uRYiimjdk

Heres videos of eating cats, buying rotten beef, starving dogs, people eating from piles of waste . There is no denying the country has been left to rot by Maduro.

Spannerplank · 05-02-2019 12:08AM

Good loser wrote: »

Are those enough for you Spanner?

The evidence is overwhelming; rabbiting on about flamingos and rats is reprehensible given the scale of the starvation crisis imposed on these poor people. By an incompetent, utterly corrupt killer - Maduro.

The evidence is not overwhelming. Why? Because you say it is?

Yes some pictures of emaciated people. So that's overwhelming evidence of famine?

Where is your evidence of people eating rats and zoo animals? Where are the starving multitudes and the corpses? Has the Red Cross or MSF or anyone e shown such famine?

They seem to be able to film it in places like Ethiopia 30 years ago.

The evidence is overwhelming. Is it now.?

Spannerplank · 05-02-2019 12:18AM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE4Fxl8vKwY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MGbyLUCw5k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25_0sFv7leo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-uRYiimjdk

Heres videos of eating cats, buying rotten beef, starving dogs, people eating from piles of waste . There is no denying the country has been left to rot by Maduro.

Do you have anything yet to back up your rat and flamingo story?

You can bombard the thread with images of people who appear to be malnourished all you want. You brought up the ridiculous myth about people having to eat rats. Can you provide any proof of that?

CPTM · 05-02-2019 12:03PM

Spannerplank wrote: »

Do you have anything yet to back up your rat and flamingo story?

You can bombard the thread with images of people who appear to be malnourished all you want. You brought up the ridiculous myth about people having to eat rats. Can you provide any proof of that?

Hi Spannerplank - I've a huge amount of connections and family currently in Venezuela. Luckily none of them are eating rats or flamingos at the moment. But think of the bottom of our society, I mean the very bottom. How are they living in our first world country?

Mass starvation doesn't necessarily happen like the infamous Ethiopian cases wherein people wake up and suddenly there is no food. It can happen over time, which is the case in Venezuela. People are still working in banks you know, the police are still getting up. Kids are going to school. Even restaurants are open and bakeries. If you're looking for an Ethiopian epidemic, you won't find it in Venezuela. The starvation that's happening is because people are eating 50% of their daily recommended calorie intake, a lot of bread and water, and maybe some cheese. Very little nutrition. Kids are growing, but the videos you can find online will show you teenagers that look like 6 year olds. Remember the different levels of society, and with starvation in Venezuela we're mainly talking about the bottom half, which is enveloping more of their society everyday.

The problem I have with the media is that they make people like you question everything even when there is clear evidence of a problem. The media's general approach to glorifying everything now has you implying in this thread that you don't believe any of it, and begging for videos and, when you get them, validity of the videos and pictures. You have lost so much faith in public information, that you can only believe things when you physically travel and see them with your own eyes.

What I would ask you to do is forget about using some parts of the media and online videos as a starting point. You are using them as an input to your perspective of Venezuela and you're right - that's not the correct approach.

Think about a far left regime and the history of them. Think about passports not being issued to civilians so they can't work if they leave. In spite of that, think about the mass exodus from the country (millions). Think about the treacherous journeys that everyday people are making with their kids to get over the freezing Venezuelan mountains. Think about the protests and amount of different world powers that are backing the end of Maduro's presidency.

Can't your mind see (without videos) that perhaps people are leaving behind a desperate place? Now, once you have reached that conclusion, take a look at the videos online - Are the bottom half of society eating rats? Yes, of course they are. What else would make you pack up your belongings, take your kids over a freezing mountain, and move to another country in which you have no access to work or social welfare?

Thargor · 05-02-2019 04:14PM

Sorry for the Daily Mail link but this is fairly infuriating:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6667889/Rich-Kids-Venezuela-including-Socialist-leader-Hugo-Chavezs-daughter-flaunt-wealth.html

Hugo Chavezs daughter is worth 4 billion! How do they tolerate that level of fleecing? They're not a third world country, they all have Internet access but they're eating from wheelie bins instead of doing anything about it...

TeaBagMania · 05-02-2019 05:24PM

Thargor wrote: »

Hugo Chavezs daughter is worth 4 billion! How do they tolerate that level of fleecing?

clearly Venezuela doesn't have a second amendment

Gatling · 05-02-2019 05:29PM

TeaBagMania wrote: »

clearly Venezuela doesn't have a second amendment

They effectively banned the ownership of guns a few years ago

James Brown · 05-02-2019 05:52PM

Gatling wrote: »

They effectively banned the ownership of guns a few years ago

Not all bad so. The yanks will reverse that after they 'liberate' them.

Gatling · 05-02-2019 06:01PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Not all bad so. The yanks will reverse that after they 'liberate' them.

I'd say the next government might revisit the decision depending on what happens next

TeaBagMania · 05-02-2019 06:06PM

Gatling wrote: »

They effectively banned the ownership of guns a few years ago

interesting, haven't all dictatorships done the same thing before they took over the government.

Spannerplank · 05-02-2019 06:13PM

Gatling wrote: »

Whataboutwhat

Venezuela not Yemen.

Except it's very relevant.

Yemen has been suffering the worst humanitarian catastrophe on the planet for years prior to any food crisis in Venezuela.

The fact that the US have engineered the crisis in Yemen doesn't lend any creedence to their supposed concerns about how much Venezuelans are getting to eat.

And the fact that you use a buzzword like whataboutery as a defence of hypocrisy shows that you're not really serious but are just playing games, looking to score
points and trying to get a rise out of people. That's certainly how it looks.

blanch152 · 05-02-2019 06:24PM

Spannerplank wrote: »

Except it's very relevant.

Yemen has been suffering the worst humanitarian catastrophe on the planet for years prior to any food crisis in Venezuela.

The fact that the US have engineered the crisis in Yemen doesn't lend any creedence to their supposed concerns about how much Venezuelans are getting to eat.

And the fact that you use a buzzword like whataboutery as a defence of hypocrisy shows that you're not really serious but are just playing games, looking to score
points and trying to get a rise out of people. That's certainly how it looks.

How is it relevant?

I can be wrong about Arsenal winning the Premier League but right about Dublin winning the All-Ireland Championship.

Being wrong about one thing doesn't make you wrong about everything. The situation in Venezuela should be examined on its merits. I will comment in a thread on Yemen about Yemen, but the US could be wrong there and right about Venezuela.

Discernment is everything. I am more than happy to criticise our own government on climbing down on water charges and their record on climate change, while praising them for their handling of the public finances. The idea that because you agree with the US on Venezuela means that you agree with them on every issue of foreign policy is a distraction put up by people who disagree with the US on everything.

Posts like yours fail to see the real issue and are blinded by a hatred of all things US.

Spannerplank · 05-02-2019 06:31PM

Thargor wrote: »

Sorry for the Daily Mail link but this is fairly infuriating:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6667889/Rich-Kids-Venezuela-including-Socialist-leader-Hugo-Chavezs-daughter-flaunt-wealth.html

Hugo Chavezs daughter is worth 4 billion! How do they tolerate that level of fleecing? They're not a third world country, they all have Internet access but they're eating from wheelie bins instead of doing anything about it...

But the article doesn't say she is worth 4 billion.

It says she is "rumoured" to be worth 4 billion. A very subtle and sneaky word play to stoke outrage without actually presenting a fact. Certainly protects the paper from any lawsuits for printing lies.

I could very easily ask you if you beat your wife. I would imagine you would say "no, of course not".

The following day splashed across the front page of the tabloid is "Thargor Denies Beating His Wife!"

I've told the truth but your name is still now in the gutter.

Gatling · 05-02-2019 06:42PM

TeaBagMania wrote: »

interesting, haven't all dictatorships done the same thing before they took over the government.

Yes they did and with banning of guns for civilians, deaths massively increase especially around protests at the hands of government security services

Gatling · 05-02-2019 06:46PM

Spannerplank wrote: »

Except it's very relevant.

Yemen has been suffering the worst humanitarian catastrophe on the planet for years prior to any food crisis in Venezuela.

The fact that the US have engineered the crisis in Yemen.
/quote]

Wrong and wrong.

Yemen has been in a near state of conflict for decades remind us all why iran is heavily involved in Yemen and more likely to have caused the current crisis , along with several other foreign players

Edgware · 05-02-2019 06:47PM

Its terrible how brainwashed the so called Irish Left are. Whether its Palestine, Venezuela etc they all parrot the same old cliches spun out by the Intelligentsia in First Arts

Spannerplank · 05-02-2019 06:50PM

blanch152 wrote: »

How is it relevant?

I can be wrong about Arsenal winning the Premier League but right about Dublin winning the All-Ireland Championship.

Being wrong about one thing doesn't make you wrong about everything. The situation in Venezuela should be examined on its merits. I will comment in a thread on Yemen about Yemen, but the US could be wrong there and right about Venezuela.

Discernment is everything. I am more than happy to criticise our own government on climbing down on water charges and their record on climate change, while praising them for their handling of the public finances. The idea that because you agree with the US on Venezuela means that you agree with them on every issue of foreign policy is a distraction put up by people who disagree with the US on everything.

Posts like yours fail to see the real issue and are blinded by a hatred of all things US.

Your sports analogy makes absolutely no sense. This isn't a question about being "wrong" about one thing but "right" another.

There is widespread starvation and a cholera epidemic in Yemen caused by a US land sea and air blockade. That coupled with them supplying the Saudis to decimate the country. They've had plenty of time to change course once they realised they were wrong. Except they are not wrong. They want to destroy the country.

As for your comment about me hating all things US. That always seems to be the flaccid post addendum when an uncomfortable fact is laid bare.

Gatling · 05-02-2019 06:52PM

Spannerplank wrote: »

There is widespread starvation and a cholera epidemic in Yemen caused by a US land sea and air blockade. That coupled with them supplying the Saudis to decimate the country. /quote]

Didn't know America shared a border with Yemen !

blanch152 · 05-02-2019 06:53PM

Spannerplank wrote: »

Your sports analogy makes absolutely no sense. This isn't a question about being "wrong" about one thing but "right" another.

There is widespread starvation and a cholera epidemic in Yemen caused by a US land sea and air blockade. That coupled with them supplying the Saudis to decimate the country. They've had plenty of time to change course once they realised they were wrong. Except they are not wrong. They want to destroy the country.

As for your comment about me hating all things US. That always seems to be the flaccid post addendum when an uncomfortable fact is laid bare.

The sports analogy is absolutely relevant. You could be right about Yemen (I will discuss that on a Yemen thread) but it doesn't mean you are right about Venezuela. The situation in Venezuela should be discussed on its own merits, and there is nothing to suggest the US are wrong.

I know that hurts, but it is true.

Thargor · 05-02-2019 06:58PM

Spannerplank wrote: »

But the article doesn't say she is worth 4 billion.

It says she is "rumoured" to be worth 4 billion. A very subtle and sneaky word play to stoke outrage without actually presenting a fact. Certainly protects the paper from any lawsuits for printing lies.

I could very easily ask you if you beat your wife. I would imagine you would say "no, of course not".

The following day splashed across the front page of the tabloid is "Thargor Denies Beating His Wife!"

I've told the truth but your name is still now in the gutter.

Oh wow thanks for explaining that complicated concept :rolleyes:

Im sure all the reports of her being the richest woman in Venezuela and all those estates she owns for no discernible reason are just imperialist propaganda.

Brian? · 05-02-2019 07:00PM

TeaBagMania wrote: »

interesting, haven't all dictatorships done the same thing before they took over the government.

All dictatorships? No, not all dictatorships have banned guns before they took over the government. Some have banned private ownership of guns once in power. Some have banned private ownership for oppressed sections of society, like the Nazis did with the Jews. Some have done neither.

But I’m going to guess none have banned private ownership of guns before taking control, how could they? They weren’t in power.

This is a well trotted our line by the pro gun lobby in the US. It’s nonsense.

Good loser · 05-02-2019 07:00PM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You find people like this in America if you looked for them. There no evidence the entire population is starving and out of food.

To just blame Maduro for the economic mess, is ignoring America is punishing this country economically for a decade.

I think a new election should be held and let the people decide. However it clear as day this coup is backed by the US and they want to take the oil. They're not getting involved for no reason.

What do you mean when you say America is punishing this country economically for a decade?

Until a fortnight ago - when the US introduced an oil embargo - it was the only country actually paying them for the oil they got.

Brian? · 05-02-2019 07:07PM

Thargor wrote: »

Oh wow thanks for explaining that complicated concept :rolleyes:

Im sure all the reports of her being the richest woman in Venezuela and all those estates she owns for no discernible reason are just imperialist propaganda.

I’m pretty sure the US placed financial sanctions on Venezuala under Obama. They can’t access debt markets or sell gold or other minerals to the US or any company that operates in the US. The one thing they can sell is oil, which the US is a sponge for.

Another American backed coup happening in Venezuela

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