Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

eviltwin · 06-01-2019 02:36AM

eagle eye wrote: »

So you don't give a **** if somebody goes and has an abortion, then realises it was a huge mistake which happened because their mind wasn't right at the time?

I'm not sure where you get the idea I "don't give a sh1t". Where did I say anything remotely like that?

I think you just have an issue with women wanting abortions and have to make it as difficult and humiliating as possible.

If you were using logic you'd realise most women are well able to make a sound decision and most don't experience regret.

Anyway it's all moot so debate is pointless.

And I agree with Volchitsa, you are making this way too personal

06-01-2019 02:36AM

volchitsa wrote: »

This, totally. We don't need to do it any more, but old habits die hard!

But the relief, every time I find myself in one of those pointless to and fros, when suddenly I think "I don't care that this person is probably lying, the referendum is over and we flipping won! I can just drop it now and we will still have won!" And yeah, being able to breathe. That's exactly it.

I was at a gig in Belfast when my pro life Catholic friend text me and told me the exit polls. That I thought was very big of him and I have told him so. I was hungover to hell sitting in the back seat of a tour bus trying not to vomit with the bumpy roads when my friend (another pro choice lady, a midwife too!) text me and said "We F**KING done it!" I burst into tears. I was burned out. We effing did it. Me and you and every woman and man who marched, bought the merch, posted online, we ALL did it. Now we don't even have to argue anymore. Virtual hugs, seems we both need and deserve it!

volchitsa · 06-01-2019 11:47AM

eagle eye wrote: »

So you don't give a **** if somebody goes and has an abortion, then realises it was a huge mistake which happened because their mind wasn't right at the time

That's not what she said.

eagle eye wrote: »

You are very mistaken if you think I'm making this about myself.

Read your own posts. Yes you are. Repeatedly.

If you can't see that, i can't help you, but I think it's obvious to anyone reading your posts and your reactions to other posts.

eagle eye wrote: »

I have no right to tell any woman that they should or should not have an abortion. I'm not qualified to do that. There should be somebody qualified that you have to talk to before you go through such a huge procedure though in my opinion. This will never stop a perfectly healthy person from having an abortion. It might stop somebody that isn't ready to make that decision or isn't healthy enough to realise they actually want to have a child.

As I said before, I have no issue with that, but you've said a whole lot more thn that.

eagle eye wrote: »

I understand all the abuse you took from Bible bashing idiots. Personally it just washes off me as I really don't care what they think. The fact that I'm a big strong guy who is not afraid to stand face to face with them and put it up to them probably helps.

That wasn't my point but never mind.

eagle eye wrote: »

I do honestly feel sorry for all the women who were put through hell by the Catholic Church and the idiots that believe every word rather than use their brains.

OK.

NuMarvel · 06-01-2019 01:09PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Ah sure just let them do what they want while pregnant.

Well, yeah. What's wrong with that? Pregnant people already have that right in every other aspect of their life, so why not allow them bodily integrity early in in pregnancy?

eagle eye wrote: »

No, because they are pregnant and it can affect their decision making process.
Go find me a respected medical opinion that says pregnancy doesn't affect a woman's mental health.

You may be shocked to discover this but having a mental illness doesn't automatically mean someone lacks capacity to make a decision about their health care. The vast majority of people who are being treated for mental illness are free to live their lives as they wish, and to accept or refuse treatment (and not just for their mental illness).

eagle eye wrote: »

My opinion is based on personal experience and from reading.

You came into this thread not realising there was going to be new legislation after the referendum, so I'm surprised to discover you've done research on the effects of pregnancy on mental health and decision making capacity.

So please tell us what reading you did. What respected medical opinions can you cite to support your belief that women asking for an abortion should first be subjected to psychological or psychiatric assessment?

AndrewJRenko · 06-01-2019 01:46PM

Elisabeth Wrong Stork wrote: »

Sooo, three days in and Love Both are picketing family planning clinics, and someone has set up a deliberately misleading website, mimicking the government one, to try and target women seeking abortion and pressure them out of it.

Pro life movement maintains its established level of class and integrity, even in defeat :rolleyes:

Exclusion zones are needed, repealing the amendment and getting legislation through were monumental achievements but the battle isn't over. Global events show us that it essentially never is, sadly, there will always be people who want to drag us backwards. Keep reaching out to your representatives lads.

If they really had any interest in preventing abortions or reducing the number of abortions, there are loads of constructive things they could do to achieve this.

They could, for example, hand out large amounts of condoms, perhaps with practical advice on their use to sexually active people, focusing on the groups most likely to look for abortion services - younger people and people without the financial resources to look after a child.

Or maybe they could set up low-cost or free childcare services, so that mothers could continue with their education or careers to avoid getting stuck in poverty traps.

But nah, I guess a bit of bullying in a gang is much more fun.

Is there an actual list of participating GPs on the website? I tried navigating round the site, but couldn't find a list. It seemed to be referring people to the phone line.

Christy42 · 06-01-2019 01:54PM

I am confused. What are we going to do if a psychologist deems a pregnant woman to be depressed? Force her to have a child because that seems like a terrible idea. A psychologist is not a mind reader and can't know if an abortion is the right decision or not. They are not trained for that and I am not sure someone can be trained for that. Mental health is much less well defined and understood issue than physical health.

Simply telling psychologists to make the decision for women will not fix anything.

06-01-2019 02:36PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If they really had any interest in preventing abortions or reducing the number of abortions, there are loads of constructive things they could do to achieve this.

They could, for example, hand out large amounts of condoms, perhaps with practical advice on their use to sexually active people, focusing on the groups most likely to look for abortion services - younger people and people without the financial resources to look after a child.

Or maybe they could set up low-cost or free childcare services, so that mothers could continue with their education or careers to avoid getting stuck in poverty traps.

But nah, I guess a bit of bullying in a gang is much more fun.

Is there an actual list of participating GPs on the website? I tried navigating round the site, but couldn't find a list. It seemed to be referring people to the phone line.

Free condoms, pro life groups such as spuc and iona believe artificial contraception is a tool of the devil and actively try to limit sexual education in schools.

Free/Discounted child care, well given a anti choice poster on here wants people on social welfare to be sterilized so their taxes aren't spent on children's allowance for such people, best of luck with that.

AndrewJRenko · 06-01-2019 03:26PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Free condoms, pro life groups such as spuc and iona believe artificial contraception is a tool of the devil and actively try to limit sexual education in schools.

Free/Discounted child care, well given a anti choice poster on here wants people on social welfare to be sterilized so their taxes aren't spent on children's allowance for such people, best of luck with that.

I know well they won't be doing it - it just highlights that their real interest isn't so much about reducing aborting, it is about controlling sexuality.

gctest50 · 06-01-2019 04:05PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Free condoms, pro life groups such as spuc and iona believe artificial contraception is a tool of the devil and actively try to limit sexual education in schools.

........

It's like some wonky version of Geswind syndrome with some of them - you'd see it on here now and again

hypermorality

"stickyness" ( holding on to a basis that is complete b*****it with an infinite unwillingness to actually look at the consequences )

06-01-2019 05:15PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I know well they won't be doing it - it just highlights that their real interest isn't so much about reducing aborting, it is about controlling sexuality.

Not having a go at you, your original post makes sense, but as pointed out sense doesn't come into play. Adhering to a religious/personal doctrine that indicates that you're beliefs should be enforced on others is more important than sense to anti choice groups/people, as pointed out repeatedly to the anti choice posters on here their not going to be forced to have abortions.

gctest50 wrote: »

It's like some wonky version of Geswind syndrome with some of them - you'd see it on here now and again

hypermorality

"stickyness" ( holding on to a basis that is complete b*****it with an infinite unwillingness to actually look at the consequences )

Might just be me but looking at the posts of a lot of the anti choice side on this and other threads they fit the classic pro life stance of once your born you can go f**k yourself.

gctest50 · 06-01-2019 05:25PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

...........

Might just be me but looking at the posts of a lot of the anti choice side on this and other threads they fit the classic pro life stance of once your born you can go f**k yourself.

In pictures :

06-01-2019 05:39PM

gctest50 wrote: »

In pictures :

Yep seen that one before, also seen one of spuc protesting the sale of condominiums, yes condominiums, but can't find it at the moment.

volchitsa · 06-01-2019 05:48PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

Well, yeah. What's wrong with that? Pregnant people already have that right in every other aspect of their life, so why not allow them bodily integrity early in in pregnancy?

You may be shocked to discover this but having a mental illness doesn't automatically mean someone lacks capacity to make a decision about their health care. The vast majority of people who are being treated for mental illness are free to live their lives as they wish, and to accept or refuse treatment (and not just for their mental illness).

You came into this thread not realising there was going to be new legislation after the referendum, so I'm surprised to discover you've done research on the effects of pregnancy on mental health and decision making capacity.

So please tell us what reading you did. What respected medical opinions can you cite to support your belief that women asking for an abortion should first be subjected to psychological or psychiatric assessment?

Good point. Didn't pay attention to the most immediate proposals for after the 8th was removed, but has read up lots about pregnancy and mental health and is definitely not just projecting their own views onto pregnant women.

Mmm. Good one.

Hotblack Desiato · 06-01-2019 07:38PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I met the yes campaigners and told them that I'd be voting yes but that I was very unhappy to see them set up at a kids event because kids shouldn't be exposed to this stuff imo.

The No campaign put up a "If Killing An Unborn Baby At Six Months Bothers You, Vote No" poster on a lamppost right outside my kids' primary school.

Those people are not in the right place to make a decision on whether to keep or get rid of a baby.

Oh. I didn't realise you were a qualified psychiatrist. :rolleyes:

Sardonicat · 06-01-2019 07:49PM

eagle eye wrote: »

amcalester wrote:

It seems to me, from your posts on this thread, that your issue isn't really with abortion but the inequality that women now get to decide whether they become a parent but men don't have the same option.

Women have plenty of options. Take a pill or use some other form of contraceptive. Take a pill afterwards.
Abortion of a fetus shouldn't be an option just because you were irresponsible.
I think I've made it quite clear, I'm not against a woman having an abortion if the contraceptive doesn't work so long as they were responsible enough to use one in the first place.

It really is not as simple as that for many women. I'm approaching 48, still have a regular cycle ( which could change any minute now) and a pill is simply not an option for me and many women in my situation. I'm not going into the why's and wherefores of my own medical history and the reasons why hormonal contraception is not the best type for pte-menopausal women are easily accessible via Google if you're interested. I do know that pregnancy at my age is extremely high risk, unlikely to go to term, etc. Are you saying if I got pregnant as a result of a split condom you'd be ok with me having an abortion but not ok if one wasn't used? The fact that I'd be facing some serious risks by continuing with the pregnancy is not what concerns you?

Hotblack Desiato · 06-01-2019 07:50PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I have no right to tell any woman that they should or should not have an abortion.

But that's exactly what you have done on this thread, repeatedly

or are you trying to weasel out of the "irresponsible" nonsense you were coming out with earlier?

The fact that I'm a big strong guy who is not afraid to stand face to face with them and put it up to them probably helps.

The fact you don't have a uterus probably helps, too.

its_steve116 · 06-01-2019 09:13PM

It was a yes from me.

martingriff · 07-01-2019 12:22AM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Baby brain or momnesia is a real thing.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/baby-brain-pregnancy-real-memory-loss-task-performance-worse-women-research-a8161921.html

The big thing to point out is that all women were still within normal range, and they won't turn into dribbling idiots the second they get a bit of jizz inside them.

I agree with you 100% just seemed the post I was quoting thought women go gaga once pregnant and knowing a lot of women who have got pregnant I know this is not true for the most part. By that I mean you may have someone who has problems before that may get worse due to the stress of being pregnant

gmisk · 07-01-2019 03:05PM

https://twitter.com/ProfRayKinsella/status/1081855756494913536

Wow lovely, this is surely a breach of patient confidentiality if true? as usual John McGuirk and the like chipping in to defend him and say what a lovely man he is...zzz

ELM327 · 07-01-2019 03:06PM

gmisk wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ProfRayKinsella/status/1081855756494913536

Wow lovely, this is surely a breach of patient confidentiality if true?

That's disgusting and that person (if it's a real page) should be removed from their post.

ohnonotgmail · 07-01-2019 03:10PM

ELM327 wrote: »

That's disgusting and that person (if it's a real page) should be removed from their post.

Oh its a real page alright. The guy is (was?) an economics professor in UCD. He was involved in setting up IRExit so make of that what you will.

gmisk · 07-01-2019 03:11PM

ELM327 wrote: »

That's disgusting and that person (if it's a real page) should be removed from their post.

I dont see any reason to doubt its the real person.....he is behind an Irexit party...and used to work for UCD smurfit school by looks of it.
He also spoke at the world meeting of families...what a surprise.

gmisk · 07-01-2019 03:14PM

Oh and just by way of a follow up...there was a protest seemingly at the hospital today
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/anti-abortion-protest-outside-our-lady-of-lourdes-hospital-in-drogheda-896060.html
Theres Charles Byrne in the middle of them zzz
If the name sounds familiar...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/claims-ministers-duped-voters-in-eighth-referendum-rejected-1.3545559

ELM327 · 07-01-2019 03:15PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Oh its a real page alright. The guy is (was?) an economics professor in UCD. He was involved in setting up IRExit so make of that what you will.

gmisk wrote: »

I dont see any reason to doubt its the real person.....he is behind an Irexit party...and used to work for UCD smurfit school by looks of it.
He also spoke at the world meeting of families...what a surprise.

Ah ok never mind, I took it on first reading that he was a professor at the hospital in question. Turns out he's just a nutjob. IREexit speaks for itself!

Gael23 · 07-01-2019 03:51PM

gmisk wrote: »

Oh and just by way of a follow up...there was a protest seemingly at the hospital today
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/anti-abortion-protest-outside-our-lady-of-lourdes-hospital-in-drogheda-896060.html
Theres Charles Byrne in the middle of them zzz
If the name sounds familiar...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/claims-ministers-duped-voters-in-eighth-referendum-rejected-1.3545559

Breaches of patient confidentiality like that should not be allowed to happen. OLOL has a lot of digging to do

NuMarvel · 08-01-2019 12:36PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Oh its a real page alright. The guy is (was?) an economics professor in UCD. He was involved in setting up IRExit so make of that what you will.

He was also the chairman of one of the anti marriage equality groups and I can recall him opposing civil partnerships too.

Hotblack Desiato · 08-01-2019 12:49PM

gmisk wrote: »

Wow lovely, this is surely a breach of patient confidentiality if true?

Maybe. Or maybe someone on Facebook decided to troll the anti-choicers? Who knows.

eviltwin · 08-01-2019 01:40PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Maybe. Or maybe someone on Facebook decided to troll the anti-choicers? Who knows.

TBH that wouldnt surprise me. Given that exclusion zones are the hot topic at the moment, anything that gives weight to their necessity - such as a protest outside a hospital - is going to make it easier to get that legislation put through. It really is like shooting fish in a barrel with these people.

endacl · 08-01-2019 11:39PM

gmisk wrote: »

Oh and just by way of a follow up...there was a protest seemingly at the hospital today
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/anti-abortion-protest-outside-our-lady-of-lourdes-hospital-in-drogheda-896060.html
Theres Charles Byrne in the middle of them zzz
If the name sounds familiar...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/claims-ministers-duped-voters-in-eighth-referendum-rejected-1.3545559

I was in college with the bauld Charlie.

He doesn't appear to have changed much...

:rolleyes:

gctest50 · 08-01-2019 11:45PM

endacl wrote: »

I was in college with the bauld Charlie.

He doesn't appear to have changed much...

:rolleyes:

His chosen profession these days seems to be sitting beside kids and teaching them piano on his O class steinway

I myself wouldn't leave my kid alone with such a rabid Pro-life individual of any gender

Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

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