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What was that about in strokestown?

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    #362
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    tretorn wrote: »
    The tax bill seemed to be mostly made up of interest and penalties so the borrower must have declined to pay Revenue in a timely manner.

    He must have paid Revenue though because dont they get payment before everyone else. KBC or whoever they sold the loan too wouldnt get possession of the assets if Revenue were due money. The Revenue commissioners need to make a statement now on behalf of taxpayers, has the amount outstanding been paid for definite and how long were Revenue chasing this money and using other taxpayers money to get it.

    Whoever lent these enormous sums of money is at fault too. Surely you would check a persons record before giving them a loan for a landrover or giving them loans to buy property. I suppose any legal costs due now will be paid by the free legal aid system, this country is bonkers.

    Revenue can’t touch/seize property with a mortgage on it, revenue bill is still outstanding and will likely never be paid


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    #363
    zapitastas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 498 ✭✭zapitastas


    walshb wrote: »
    The Gardai have made arrests..

    This needs to be really seen through. Serious charges brought here. It was an act of anarchy, an attack against the state, and should be made a top priority

    And, no matter how you feel about the eviction etc, we as a people should ALL be behind the apprehending and pursuing of these vigilantes...

    No politician should condone, or fail to condemn!

    An attack against the state?


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    #364
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    Is it possible the loan was to pay off the revenue?

    Loan was taken out in 2004. Revenue judgement was 2015.


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    #365
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    eagle eye wrote: »
    No we should not all be behind it. We need to look at why this happened. Thugs from Northern Ireland came down to Strokestown be acting like they owned the place.
    We have a long history of being under British rule, evictions by evil landlords, the famine, the troubles in the north, the black and tans.
    It was a horrendously stupid and grossly negligent decision to send these people down from Northern Ireland to evict people. The reaction to it is not a huge surprise.

    Oh for goodness sake grow up.
    PAYE earners have no choice as to when they pay their taxes and everyone should pay their fair share. The defaulter owes huge sums of money and if you dont mind paying his share then off with you. other people are struggling to live but they have a grasp on reality and know they shouldnt live beyond their means.

    There was nothing wrong with the eviction, A Garda was there to make sure everything was done legally, the people being evicted wouldnt leave peacefully so they were ushered off the property, they kept going back in and were ushered out again, this is what has to happen when people disobey court orders and think they can do what they like. How can society work if everyone just buys themselves their hearts desires and then refuses to pay back money owed.

    Stop making out as if this was a famine type eviction of starving people. The Revenue were owed 400,000 at one stage. A landrover costing maybe fifty grand was bought too and there was about 500,000 euros owed to other parties.


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    #366
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,626 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    tretorn wrote:
    Stop making out as if this was a famine type eviction of starving people. The Revenue were owed 400,000 at one stage. A landrover costing maybe fifty grand was bought too and there was about 500,000 euros owed to other parties.
    Do I have to put in every post that I'm not in any way backing McGann?
    I'm talking about the bigger picture here. I'm not saying he deserves to be left in the house. I'm not against him being evicted.
    Now please re-read my post understanding that.


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    #367
    heroics
    Registered Users Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭heroics


    tretorn wrote: »
    The tax bill seemed to be mostly made up of interest and penalties so the borrower must have declined to pay Revenue in a timely manner.

    He must have paid Revenue though because dont they get payment before everyone else. KBC or whoever they sold the loan too wouldnt get possession of the assets if Revenue were due money. The Revenue commissioners need to make a statement now on behalf of taxpayers, has the amount outstanding been paid for definite and how long were Revenue chasing this money and using other taxpayers money to get it.

    Whoever lent these enormous sums of money is at fault too. Surely you would check a persons record before giving them a loan for a landrover or giving them loans to buy property. I suppose any legal costs due now will be paid by the free legal aid system, this country is bonkers.

    “
    However a debt of €37,960 with ACC Asset Finance, which was the subject of a High Court order in 2009, remains registered against Mr McGann’s interest in the Co Roscommon land.

    In the same month in 2009, a Co Roscommon business called Hanly Brothers Ltd registered a debt of €18,236 after securing a Circuit Court order against Mr McGann. That debt remains outstanding, the registry records indicate.

    The same is true of a High Court order involving ACC Asset Finance which was registered against Mr McGann’s property in 2010. It is also the case in relation to a High Court order in 2011 involving money due to Bank of Ireland Leasing Ltd, trading as Land Rover Financial Services.

    In 2012 a judgment mortgage was registered against the Co Roscommon property by ICS Building Society, following an order in the High Court. The land registry records indicate that debt has not yet been cleared”

    From
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/roscommon-eviction-farmer-has-unpaid-debts-going-back-years-1.3734439?mode=amp


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    #368
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Whats your point then.

    Its irrelevant where the people who carried out the lawful eviction came from, whoever secured the court order was entitled to employ whoever they liked to enforce same. Youu may have a problem that they came from the North of Ireland, most people have moved beyond that sort of sectarianism, its 2018 the last time I checked.

    I think these employees were very brave, someone has to carry out the evictions, its utterly pointless to spend nine years and hundreds of euros getting court orders if at the end you cant get at the asset because a defaulter refuses to leave.

    If Mc Gann gets away with this then everyone else who pays their way in life will think what is the point in me being a good citizen when I can do whatever I like and get away with it.


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    #369
    BBFAN
    Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭BBFAN


    As an accountant I've said before to clients, you can walk away from most debts but not the revenue, they will follow you wherever you go. They own you. They have your PPS number so unless you leave the state they will take whatever you own.

    I think this eviction was dealt with very badly, not least because it was a couple of week before Christmas. If it was January would it even be such a big deal?


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    #370
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    heroics wrote: »
    “
    However a debt of €37,960 with ACC Asset Finance, which was the subject of a High Court order in 2009, remains registered against Mr McGann’s interest in the Co Roscommon land.

    In the same month in 2009, a Co Roscommon business called Hanly Brothers Ltd registered a debt of €18,236 after securing a Circuit Court order against Mr McGann. That debt remains outstanding, the registry records indicate.

    The same is true of a High Court order involving ACC Asset Finance which was registered against Mr McGann’s property in 2010. It is also the case in relation to a High Court order in 2011 involving money due to Bank of Ireland Leasing Ltd, trading as Land Rover Financial Services.

    In 2012 a judgment mortgage was registered against the Co Roscommon property by ICS Building Society, following an order in the High Court. The land registry records indicate that debt has not yet been cleared”

    From
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/roscommon-eviction-farmer-has-unpaid-debts-going-back-years-1.3734439?mode=amp


    How big is the farm, surely land in Roscommon wouldnt be worth much.

    Would you even get 150,000 for the house.

    Even taking possession of the land and the house surely wouldnt come near repaying those loans.


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    #371
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,686 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    zapitastas wrote: »
    An attack against the state?

    Yes, we, society, the people, the state...the state is the people...

    What happened the other night was a vigilante attack against the law and the state. There is no law or state without people and society...

    What makes this worse, is that according to the persons evicted, these vigilantes had no connection to them...so, a random group of people decided to become vigilantes and attack others because they did not happen to agree with a democratic law passed by a democratic people.

    That is how serious an issue this is, no matter what your feelings on the eviction...


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    #372
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    BBFAN wrote: »
    As an accountant I've said before to clients, you can walk away from most debts but not the revenue, they will follow you wherever you go. They own you. They have your PPS number so unless you leave the state they will take whatever you own.

    I think this eviction was dealt with very badly, not least because it was a couple of week before Christmas. If it was January would it even be such a big deal?

    Why do you think the eviction was handled very badly, I cant see how it could have been handled any better. IF someone refuses to leave what other way have you of getting them out.


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    #373
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,686 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    This utter horsesh1t about thugs carrying out an eviction...?

    Can someone please explain what we should do if people refuse to obey the law?

    Are people honestly saying that society cannot use physical force (after peaceful efforts have been exhausted)?

    What poxy use is the law without a physical tool or presence?

    I say this as someone who deplores violence, but I also know that at times our people and our law enforcement need to use physical force.


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    #374
    caff
    Registered Users Posts: 954 ✭✭✭caff


    tretorn wrote: »
    Why do you think the eviction was handled very badly, I cant see how it could have been handled any better. IF someone refuses to leave what other way have you of getting them out.

    He was given a chance to pay in 2013 and didn't, he promised to pay after the High Court in 2017 he didn't then the day before the eviction he said he'd pay 1000 but who could take that seriously


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    #375
    archer22
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    What are they going to do now?...they can't let them stay on the premises for long or they will start down the squatters rights route.


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    #376
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    walshb wrote: »
    This utter horsesh1t about thugs carrying out an eviction...?

    Can someone please explain what we should do if people refuse to obey the law?

    Are people honestly saying that society cannot use physical force (after peaceful efforts have been exhausted)?

    What poxy use is the law without a physical tool or presence?

    I say this as someone who deplores violence, but I also know that at times our people and our law enforcement need to use physical force.

    I didnt see much violence on the video that was posted related to this eviction.

    I saw people legally employed to carry out an order from an Irish Court just doing their job. they successfully removed someone who was ordered to leave the property and he insisted on returning again and again. A member of the Gardai is a witness to the entire proceedings and he didnt intervene, he had no right to intervene, his job is to see that the laws of the land are obeyed but if someone was being assaulted in the course of the eviction then the Garda had the right to call a halt.

    If someone has evidence that thugs carried out an assault on elderly people can they post it.


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    #377
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Aravo wrote: »
    No offense taken. The CLP was mentioned tongue in cheek as it arose recently. Other outside boardsies would not understand the abbreviation.

    One thing I'm not totally clear on. Did the person buy land they could not afford or invest in something, or business venture failed. It was a hugh tax bill.

    Non declaration of vat with interest and penalties, iirc, was the sum due to Revenue.


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    #378
    BBFAN
    Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭BBFAN


    walshb wrote: »
    Yes, we, society, the people, the state...the state is the people...

    What happened the other night was a vigilante attack against the law and the state. There is no law or state without people and society...

    What makes this worse, is that according to the persons evicted, these vigilantes had no connection to them...so, a random group of people decided to become vigilantes and attack others because they did not happen to agree with a democratic law passed by a democratic people.

    That is how serious an issue this is, no matter what your feelings on the eviction...

    It's a couple of weeks before Christmas, that's number one of why it was dealt with badly, no reason it couldn't have waited until New Year.

    Number 2 is it could have been dealt with by licenced contractors from the Republic of Ireland.


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    #379
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    tretorn wrote: »
    How big is the farm, surely land in Roscommon wouldnt be worth much.

    Would you even get 150,000 for the house.

    Even taking possession of the land and the house surely wouldnt come near repaying those loans.

    You'd want 10 or 12 acres along with the house to get €150k and that's with a couple of lads to bid.


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    #380
    pablo39er
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 66 ✭✭pablo39er


    archer22 wrote: »
    What are they going to do now?...they can't let them stay on the premises for long or they will start down the squatters rights route.

    Maybe Leo and the vulture funds could try the LVF next ?


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    #381
    oceanman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭oceanman


    archer22 wrote: »
    What are they going to do now?...they can't let them stay on the premises for long or they will start down the squatters rights route.

    and if he is evicted and made homeless the state will have a responsibly to house him...


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    #382
    UsBus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭UsBus


    BBFAN wrote: »
    I think this eviction was dealt with very badly, not least because it was a couple of week before Christmas. If it was January would it even be such a big deal?

    Even if they came in on Xmas day and pissed on his dinner so what. He had multiple chances to pay his bills.

    He gave up the right to choose his eviction date through his gross tax evasion and breaking the law. I presume it will come out that he had connections with the group who carried out the attack and arson..


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    #383
    archer22
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    oceanman wrote: »
    and if he is evicted and made homeless the state will have a responsibly to house him...

    Given his contempt for the law and the state..the only home they have a responsibility to house him in is Mountjoy.


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    #384
    oceanman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭oceanman


    archer22 wrote: »
    Given his contempt for the law and the state..the only home they have a responsibility to house him in is Mountjoy.
    still cost the taxpayer about 75 grand a year...


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    #385
    pablo39er
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 66 ✭✭pablo39er


    BBFAN wrote: »
    It's a couple of weeks before Christmas, that's number one of why it was dealt with badly, no reason it couldn't have waited until New Year.

    Number 2 is it could have been dealt with by licenced contractors from the Republic of Ireland.

    Exactly, I've seen professional evictions done very smoothly, successfully and calmly in far more difficult situations and areas than this one. This was an utterly unprofessional paramilitary style thug farce.


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    #386
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    oceanman wrote: »
    and if he is evicted and made homeless the state will have a responsibly to house him...

    And if he doesn't pay his rent he will be fcuked out again.


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    #387
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    I would guess the next time they come to seize the property, there will be zero warning. Just leave it to die down, maybe while everyone is at home tucking into the Christmas dinner. Whatever about sorting out somewhere now, imagine landing in on someone Christmas evening with a packed bag of clothes looking for a bed for the night.


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    #388
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,626 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    tretorn wrote:
    Whats your point then.
    My point is something you clearly don't understand. There are lots of people who grew up being told stories about the famine, the black and tans, landlords and the troubles. There are lots of people who lived during the troubles. There are lots of people whose lives were deeply affected by the troubles. Bringing down thugs from the North of Ireland to carry out this eviction awoke all those horrible memories.
    Also just because we have peace doesn't mean that all these feelings have gone away. It means that people are getting on with their lives and putting it aside. When you wipe their nose in it the ugly side is going to rear it's ugly head. This is what happened in Strokestown.

    And Strokestown had an evil landlord named Major Mahon. A lot of people from the area would have grown up hearing the awful stories from his time.


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    #389
    archer22
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    I see the Gardai are thanking the public for their support in the investigation.

    Seems real world support for 5.30 am gang isn't as strong as some would have you believe.


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    #390
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,626 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    archer22 wrote:
    I see the Gardai are thanking the public for their support in the investigation.
    Seems real world support for 5.30 am gang isn't as strong as some would have you believe.
    There is plenty of support for those who went there at 5 am.
    Obviously there are people who believe in the law of the land and will assist the police too.
    The world is not a simple ace where everybody thinks the same or agrees on everything.
    One of the big problems here is that you have young people brought up on a city giving their opinion on something they only understand from one side.


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    #391
    pablo39er
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 66 ✭✭pablo39er


    pablo128 wrote: »
    And if he doesn't pay his rent he will be fcuked out again.

    and rehoused again.


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