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Shane Ross' new speeding penalties

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭jhenno78


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Forget the number of accidents, what were the outcomes of the accidents?
    You are more likely to die in an accident at 120 than an accident at 50.

    I don't really care if I'm twice as likely to have a fender bender on a 50 road, I'll happily walk away from that.

    What about the person you hit?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭swarlb


    mgn wrote: »
    What's with this " The Irish".Where are you from.And why the F*uk should i listen to an idiot of minister that doesn't even own a car. I had been driving for over 35 years between here and the UK.So i think i know a bit about driving at this stage.

    Because this thread is specifically about 'The Irish', and their attitude to any sort of enforcement, in this case speeding and penalties.
    Where does it matter where I am from ? As it happens I am Irish, so perfectly placed to have a view of them.
    And by and large, quite a lot of them are egits.
    For all you think you know about something, chances are you don't know everything.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    mgn wrote: »
    What's with this " The Irish".Where are you from.And why the F*uk should i listen to an idiot of minister that doesn't even own a car. I had been driving for over 35 years between here and the UK.So i think i know a bit about driving at this stage.

    As long as you know how to stay below the limit you’ll be grand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    swarlb wrote: »
    Because this thread is specifically about 'The Irish', and their attitude to any sort of enforcement, in this case speeding and penalties.
    Where does it matter where I am from ? As it happens I am Irish, so perfectly placed to have a view of them.
    And by and large, quite a lot of them are egits.
    For all you think you know about something, chances are you don't know everything.

    Then why don't you say we or us instead of the Irish.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭swarlb


    mgn wrote: »
    Then why don't you say we or us instead of the Irish.

    'cos I hate being told what to do.... it's in my nature'
    Plus 'The Irish' also hate being spoken of in the third party, that really gets up their goat... even more so than being told what to do.
    Personally I blame the parents...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    swarlb wrote: »
    'cos I hate being told what to do.... it's in my nature'
    Plus 'The Irish' also hate being spoken of in the third party, that really gets up their goat... even more so than being told what to do.
    Personally I blame the parents...

    Probably got the latest American accent too like a lot of King Leo's band of merry men.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭swarlb


    mgn wrote: »
    Probably got the latest American accent too like a lot of King Leo's band of merry men.

    If only you knew !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭hurler32


    Are these fines - points an attempt by Ross and Fine Gael Dublin to get country folk banned off the roads and make them move into Dublin ??


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    download (1).jpg

    This is our minister for transport.Doesn't know he has to be in the water.Thinks the canoe can go on dry land.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    hurler32 wrote: »
    Are these fines - points an attempt by Ross and Fine Gael Dublin to get country folk banned off the roads and make them move into Dublin ??

    The muppets in this government cannot house the people that are there all ready.never mind the country people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 156 ✭✭koheim


    Hi Folks,
    Just joined up today.
    I can't help but compare us with the French; macron decides to put a few cents on the litre of Diesel and they've been out on the streets every week since protesting and wrecking the place, so much so that he has scrapped the increase and given them a pay rise.
    here in Ireland we have a minister who decides to criminalize people who are doing 19mph over speed limit and give penalty points to anyone who forgets their license and no one is doing anything. What is wrong with us that we are such wimps? Maybe we deserve it we are such serfs?
    When are motorists in Ireland going to stand up for themselves the way the French do?

    Strange post, because in France they already have laws like Shane Ross is introducing in Ireland. http://english.controleradar.org/speeding-fines.php

    Tax is a different opic...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,494 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    koheim wrote: »
    Strange post, because in France they already have laws like Shane Ross is introducing in Ireland. http://english.controleradar.org/speeding-fines.php
    Yes, they do, but look at the details .. only 1 point for less than 20km/h over, 2 points for 20-30km/h over, etc. much more reasonable.

    I have no problem with a graduated scale of fines, but the points per band on the current proposals are ridiculous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Alun wrote: »
    Yes, they do, but look at the details .. only 1 point for less than 20km/h over, 2 points for 20-30km/h over, etc. much more reasonable.

    I have no problem with a graduated scale of fines, but the points per band on the current proposals are ridiculous.

    If everyone stayed in the range for 0 points then it wouldn't matter if it was a hundred points for 20km/h over.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,779 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    sdanseo wrote: »
    As previously mentioned in this thread I have a BSc in this area and came to a similar conclusion in relation to motorways in a road safety thesis. I found the proportion of accidents on high speed roads to be very significantly lower than on low speed roads. Yes, there are more low speed roads than motorways, so it's not a perfect measurement and the detail didn't extend to traffic counts at the time as the data wasn't as available. But the motorways carry infinitely more traffic.

    In my qualified opinion, a direct inference of that is that speed alone, on roads with higher limits which have similar segregation of obstacles and VRUs from moving traffic, have a significantly lower propensity for accidents caused by speed or speed alone.
    Other factors are more weighted in causing the accident and must also be present (e.g. a driver blocks Lane 3, so an impatient driver undertakes in Lane 1, doesn't see the truck merging... you get my drift).


    To be fair, if you're still calling them 'accidents' instead of collisions, you're not an expert in the field.


    But is your thesis relating to the roads where collisions take place, or the actual speed involved in those collisions?

    mgn wrote: »
    I always flash when i see a speed van and when someone else flashes me i appreciate it.Some people spend a lot of time on the road and doesn't take long to get a few points.not because there always speeding but a simple thing like overtalking and the idiot your trying to pass puts the foot down because the see a straight road ahead after being stuck behind them for a half an hour.
    So that would be speeding then.
    Bruthal wrote: »
    Banning driving would be needed.
    It's unusual to find someone with a lower opinion of the drivers of Ireland than me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭Pythagorean


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Banning driving would be needed. We see many say "if it saves one life, its worth it"

    There was a piece in todays Indo which dragged out this old chestnut " if it only saves one life" etc. Here are a few proposals Mr Ross could consider which would easily achieve this objective;

    1, Any cyclist not wearing proper safety gear 200 on the spot fine.

    2.any pedestrian wearing headphones while crossing the road, ditto.

    3.Ban all motorcycles.

    4. while we're at it, sure why not double the price of fags and booze.

    Then we'd see the yellow vests out


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,779 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    There was a piece in todays Indo which dragged out this old chestnut " if it only saves one life" etc. Here are a few proposals Mr Ross could consider which would easily achieve this objective;

    1, Any cyclist not wearing proper safety gear 200 on the spot fine.

    2.any pedestrian wearing headphones while crossing the road, ditto.
    Is there any evidence that shows that any of these issues have any impact on road deaths?


    Anything comparable to the evidence that shows that speed is a significant factor in a significant number of road deaths?


  • Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭Pythagorean


    Is there any evidence that shows that any of these issues have any impact on road deaths?


    Anything comparable to the evidence that shows that speed is a significant factor in a significant number of road deaths?

    Look at the figures for road fatalities in these categories... as regards fags and booze. well, that should be obvious. I'm being a bit tongue in cheek, obviously in suggesting these measures, but if this " if it only saves one life" mantra is taken to its logical conclusion, this is what could happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,313 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Bruthal wrote: »
    It's not only people inside the car that are involved in accidents. And people outside it are far more likely in the 50 road.

    And are far more likely to die if you are doing 60 in a 50 zone, aka speeding.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,313 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    jhenno78 wrote: »
    What about the person you hit?

    The slower I'm traveling the better their chances, yet many here have an issue diving at the limit, confusing isn't it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,779 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Look at the figures for road fatalities in these categories... as regards fags and booze. well, that should be obvious. I'm being a bit tongue in cheek, obviously in suggesting these measures, but if this " if it only saves one life" mantra is taken to its logical conclusion, this is what could happen.
    You need to go well beyond looking at the figures. You need to look at the causes of deaths. I've never seen any evidence that 'safety gear' for cyclists saves lives, or that pedestrians wearing headphones cause deaths.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭flexcon


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Point was, if there was a ban for that, some posters here would have no worry about it. As it would only affect those breaking the law.

    Thank you. was waiting for someone to pull up on that. Worded perfect.

    I tried earlier on two people at what limit would they themselves say the law goes too far and they wouldn’t answer back on it. Just it’s the law attitude.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,091 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    My lovely wife met a new friend and arranged for us to go out to dinner. After a while her husband told me what he did for a living, he was a clamper. I told my wife that I'd be at the bar when she was ready to leave. If this guy worked in a speed van I'd have done the same thing.
    I don't mind a garda out with a gun but I despise these people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,779 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    eagle eye wrote: »
    My lovely wife met a new friend and arranged for us to go out to dinner. After a while her husband told me what he did for a living, he was a clamper. I told my wife that I'd be at the bar when she was ready to leave. If this guy worked in a speed van I'd have done the same thing.
    I don't mind a garda out with a gun but I despise these people.
    I'm not sure if you're old enough to remember Dublin before the clampers. Who ever got in earliest got the parking spots, and stayed their all day, shovelling 5p pieces into the meter.


    The clampers allowed these parking spots to work as intended, good for parking for an hour or two, but not for all day.


    I have the clampers on speed dial (01 602 2500, press 2) for reporting the chances who put their parking needs above the rest of the community. The new Devlin Hotel in Ranelagh is a current hotspot, where suppliers and punters frequently take the clearway out of action in rush hour, inconveniencing and endangering cyclists, slowing buses and others.



    I'd have bought your man dinner in thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭Allinall


    eagle eye wrote: »
    My lovely wife met a new friend and arranged for us to go out to dinner. After a while her husband told me what he did for a living, he was a clamper. I told my wife that I'd be at the bar when she was ready to leave. If this guy worked in a speed van I'd have done the same thing.
    I don't mind a garda out with a gun but I despise these people.

    We’re you old enough to get served?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 445 ✭✭Teddy Daniels


    eagle eye wrote: »
    My lovely wife met a new friend and arranged for us to go out to dinner. After a while her husband told me what he did for a living, he was a clamper. I told my wife that I'd be at the bar when she was ready to leave. If this guy worked in a speed van I'd have done the same thing.
    I don't mind a garda out with a gun but I despise these people.

    Really ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭Ultimanemo


    Probably he lives in a place with good public transport, if he is off the road he can use public transport, there are people who commute 50 to 100 km to work, when those people go off the road they go off the job and go on the dole


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    I have the clampers on speed dial (01 602 2500, press 2) for reporting the chances who put their parking needs above the rest of the community.
    It must be easy to spot them, crawling around at 20kph


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Ultimanemo wrote: »
    Probably he lives in a place with good public transport, if he is off the road he can use public transport, there are people who commute 50 to 100 km to work, when those people go off the road they go off the job and go on the dole

    Those people should probably not exceed the limit it then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭Ultimanemo


    amcalester wrote: »
    Those people should probably not exceed the limit it then.
    Ok


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I have the clampers on speed dial (01 602 2500, press 2) .
    This does not surprise me in the least. How curtain twitchy, small and petty can one person be to have clampers on speed dial? Jesus.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,779 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Wibbs wrote: »
    This does not surprise me in the least. How curtain twitchy, small and petty can one person be to have clampers on speed dial? Jesus.


    So you think it's OK for businesses in Ranelagh and Rathmines to say FU to the community they draw their business from and routinely take deliveries in the bus lane, bike lane or clearway ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    So you think it's OK for businesses in Ranelagh and Rathmines to say FU to the community they draw their business from and routinely take deliveries in the bus lane, bike lane or clearway ?

    They will be ok now with renko cop about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭Pythagorean


    You need to go well beyond looking at the figures. You need to look at the causes of deaths. I've never seen any evidence that 'safety gear' for cyclists saves lives, or that pedestrians wearing headphones cause deaths.

    Have you seen the Luas videos of pedestrians wandering in front of trams? Have you ever driven on an unlit road and suddenly encountered a cyclist with no lights, reflective gear, etc,. As regards evidence, it is impossible to say whether safety gear has saved lives, but definitely the absence of it is a real hazard.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    So you think it's OK for businesses in Ranelagh and Rathmines to say FU to the community they draw their business from and routinely take deliveries in the bus lane, bike lane or clearway ?

    Yes, there are not enough loading bays , health and safety rules and equipment required to move produce long distances arent available and the city is constantly eliminating parking. Baggot street at the shelbourne end is reduced from two lanes to one every morning between 9-11 while all the restaurants and pubs have drinks, produce and supplies delivered to them by an array of trucks forced to mount the kerb and use double yellows because there is simply nowhere within 100 meters of those premises to pull over thats not obstructing traffic


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    GreeBo wrote: »
    And are far more likely to die if you are doing 60 in a 50 zone, aka speeding.

    Be careful you dont get confused between people arguing against speeding penalties, and arguing against the proposals here.


  • Posts: 24,714 [Deleted User]


    GreeBo wrote: »
    And are far more likely to die if you are doing 60 in a 50 zone, aka speeding.

    If they stayed off the road it wouldn’t matter what speed the car was going, it’s no wonder pedestrians get hit the way a lot of them behave.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Have you seen the Luas videos of pedestrians wandering in front of trams? Have you ever driven on an unlit road and suddenly encountered a cyclist with no lights, reflective gear, etc,. As regards evidence, it is impossible to say whether safety gear has saved lives, but definitely the absence of it is a real hazard.


    Fair point. Seeing that cyclists caused less that 10%, pedestrians just over 33% and car drivers caused over 50% of LUAS crashes and emergency braking, what extra safety gear do you think car drivers need?


    Better lights?
    More training?
    Yearly testing?
    High vis paint?



    There's clearly a country wide issue here with drivers causing accidents that needs to be addressed.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    There is a lot of bad driving and it has nothing to do with speeding. lane-hopping, overtaking on the inside, not stopping on yellow boxes or behind white lines. I would be in facvour of persistent offenders being towed to a public place and the vehicle smashed with sledge hammers in front of them. The second time it should be by any member of the public who has a rock to throw at the vehicle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    You need to go well beyond looking at the figures. You need to look at the causes of deaths. I've never seen any evidence that 'safety gear' for cyclists saves lives, or that pedestrians wearing headphones cause deaths.

    I never seen and evidence of motorist driving up on footpaths killing people or trying to run over cyclist or pedestrians in the dark.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    So you think it's OK for businesses in Ranelagh and Rathmines to say FU to the community they draw their business from and routinely take deliveries in the bus lane, bike lane or clearway ?

    If the didn't elect the cyclist loving anti motorist to the council you might not have that problem.The have Dublin destroyed with one way systems and bus lanes.The won't be happy until the have every business in city closed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭swarlb


    mgn wrote: »
    I never seen and evidence of motorist driving up on footpaths killing people or trying to run over cyclist or pedestrians in the dark.

    You are correct... they tend to do it in broad daylight instead !

    https://lovindublin.com/news/dublin-taxi-cyclist-bike-video


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    swarlb wrote: »
    You are correct... they tend to do it in broad daylight instead !

    https://lovindublin.com/news/dublin-taxi-cyclist-bike-video

    Taxi drivers are allowed to chase them.The have special licence for it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,818 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    amcalester wrote: »
    If, as you say, the RSA measure deaths where the safe limit was exceeded, and this safe limit is (often) less than the posted limit, then what is the issue with putting measures in place to catch people exceeding the posted limit?

    I'm aware that the safe limit will depend on road conditions and that in some cases the safe limit may be above the posted limit, but there has to be a cut off or upper limit, probably more so for pedestrians/cyclists etc than the motorist them-self.

    I'd agree with you about the RSA being dishonest, they've decided what "safe" looks like and are pushing that as the answer to Road Safety despite any evidence to the contrary.

    Because it won't reduce the No's in statistics.

    All they need to do is enforce whats on the books already.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    Can anyone tell me if this passed through the cabinet?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,779 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    mgn wrote: »
    You need to go well beyond looking at the figures. You need to look at the causes of deaths. I've never seen any evidence that 'safety gear' for cyclists saves lives, or that pedestrians wearing headphones cause deaths.

    I never seen and evidence of motorist driving up on footpaths killing people or trying to run over cyclist or pedestrians in the dark.
    How hard have you looked?

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-24-dies-after-car-struck-pedestrians-on-pavement-36106495.html

    Looks like we might have a technology solution available soon, if governments have the guts to stand up to the motoring industry

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/13/car-lobby-opposes-eu-safety-bid-that-would-save-1300-lives-a-year


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  • Posts: 24,714 [Deleted User]


    How hard have you looked?

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-24-dies-after-car-struck-pedestrians-on-pavement-36106495.html

    Looks like we might have a technology solution available soon, if governments have the guts to stand up to the motoring industry

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/13/car-lobby-opposes-eu-safety-bid-that-would-save-1300-lives-a-year

    And damn right they are opposed to it, total and utter nanny state nonsense. Trying to take all the fun out of driving.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,779 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    How hard have you looked?

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-24-dies-after-car-struck-pedestrians-on-pavement-36106495.html

    Looks like we might have a technology solution available soon, if governments have the guts to stand up to the motoring industry

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/13/car-lobby-opposes-eu-safety-bid-that-would-save-1300-lives-a-year

    And damn right they are opposed to it, total and utter nanny state nonsense. Trying to take all the fun out of driving.
    So speeding is the fun bit?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    And damn right they are opposed to it, total and utter nanny state nonsense. Trying to take all the fun out of driving.

    If it was to kick in around schools, residential areas, black spots instead of vehicle & environmentally unfriendly ramps I’d be all for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    How hard have you looked?

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-24-dies-after-car-struck-pedestrians-on-pavement-36106495.html

    Looks like we might have a technology solution available soon, if governments have the guts to stand up to the motoring industry

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/13/car-lobby-opposes-eu-safety-bid-that-would-save-1300-lives-a-year

    https://www.thejournal.ie/woman-critical-collision-cyclist-3920019-Mar2018/

    What about the cyclist flying around the place with regard for nothing,up on footpaths, breaking lights, no lights on bikes, no safety gear.Why is there no rules for them?.Answer because we got a shower of anti motorist cyclist ministers and councillors who make the rules.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,779 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    mgn wrote: »
    How hard have you looked?

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-24-dies-after-car-struck-pedestrians-on-pavement-36106495.html

    Looks like we might have a technology solution available soon, if governments have the guts to stand up to the motoring industry

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/13/car-lobby-opposes-eu-safety-bid-that-would-save-1300-lives-a-year

    https://www.thejournal.ie/woman-critical-collision-cyclist-3920019-Mar2018/

    What about the cyclist flying around the place with regard for nothing,up on footpaths, breaking lights, no lights on bikes, no safety gear.Why is there no rules for them?.Answer because we got a shower of anti motorist cyclist ministers and councillors who make the rules.
    There are plenty of rules for cyclists and cyclists are prosecuted by Gardai as required.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/nearly-600-cyclists-fined-under-new-penalty-regime-1.2631593

    Like most of the rules for motorists, they are ignored most of the time.

    But let's not pretend that cyclists are in the same ballpark as motorists for danger and harm.

    Motorists have killed 4,000 people in Ireland over the last 15 years. Cyclists have killed zero people over the same period. Motorists kill about 1 pedestrian each week on average.


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