Shane Ross' new speeding penalties

Pythagorean · 14-12-2018 10:15pm

It all boils down to this ; 1. County councillors groupthink that there should be a lower speed limit on a particular stretch of road 2. the lower speed limit has drivers champing at the bit, because they know it is safe to drive faster. 3. The speed vans then set up, ok, they are not for profit, but they are getting substantial government funding, so they must justify their existence. 4. Minister for Transport then attempts to turn the screw even tighter.

Logical result ; more government funding for speed cameras.

AndrewJRenko · 14-12-2018 10:50pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Off the top of my head? Around three.

Please do make sure to look those three in the eye over the Christmas festivities and let them know that they are disposable for you.

Pythagorean wrote: »

It all boils down to this ; 1. County councillors groupthink that there should be a lower speed limit on a particular stretch of road 2. the lower speed limit has drivers champing at the bit, because they know it is safe to drive faster. 3. The speed vans then set up, ok, they are not for profit, but they are getting substantial government funding, so they must justify their existence. 4. Minister for Transport then attempts to turn the screw even tighter.

Logical result ; more government funding for speed cameras.

Yeah, it could be that all right. Or else it could be a measure to reduce road deaths by reducing speed on the road.

doolox wrote: »

This is why you need a broad representative body to review and adjudicate the practicality and effectiveness of proposed laws.

We have that body - it's called Dáil Eireann.

doolox wrote: »

If you have more people off the road for overstrict application of speeding laws by robot vans you will have more people on the dole or out of a job costing the society more in SW costs and doing no actual good towards safety.
People might even panic and crash when confronted by being pursued by a cop for a marginal excess of speed. Others will be disqualified for small amounts over the limit.

It is just mindblowing how creative people can get when coming up with excuses for continuing to break the law.

If only there was some easy solution that people could choose to avoid all the problems - like not breaking the speed limit.

Bruthal wrote: »

Would you back a speed limit of 20kph on all roads?

I suppose you would have to, if not prepared to lose family members based on the speed risk.

Is that what it's going to take to stop people being killed on the road?

demanufactured · 15-12-2018 11:57am

He can shove his speed limits up his hole.
I was done last week by a sneaky van hidden around a bend.
89kmph in an 80 zone.

KUNTS

OldMrBrennan83 · 15-12-2018 12:00pm

They're never sneaky when you're not speeding. I notice less and less giving a warning flash these days too so maybe a lot of people are finally copping on you'd hope.

Doctor Jimbob · 15-12-2018 12:10pm

demanufactured wrote: »

He can shove his speed limits up his hole.
I was done last week by a sneaky van hidden around a bend.
89kmph in an 80 zone.

KUNTS

I've done plenty of giving out about speed vans, but around a bend sounds exactly where they should be setting up. It's the ones sitting on straight stretches of road that do my head in.

Wibbs · 15-12-2018 12:28pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Please do make sure to look those three in the eye over the Christmas festivities and let them know that they are disposable for you.

Christ you clearly went high end private for your sense of humour removal operation. The holier than thou transplant was also a resounding success. In the past we were only exposed to this kind of linear "it's de law!!" thinking in impotent if self important letters to the Times, now we have the interwebs. God help us all.

sdanseo · 15-12-2018 1:03pm

Sienna Black Sacrifice wrote: »

No it isn’t, speed is a total scapegoat and has nothing to do with the vast majority of crashes. The RSA are totally obsessed with speed and people who don’t understand things very much believe them.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Would you like to post details of your qualifications and research in this area, just so I can compare them with the qualifications and expertise of just about every other expert in the field who came to the opposite conclusion to you?

As previously mentioned in this thread I have a BSc in this area and came to a similar conclusion in relation to motorways in a road safety thesis. I found the proportion of accidents on high speed roads to be very significantly lower than on low speed roads. Yes, there are more low speed roads than motorways, so it's not a perfect measurement and the detail didn't extend to traffic counts at the time as the data wasn't as available. But the motorways carry infinitely more traffic.

In my qualified opinion, a direct inference of that is that speed alone, on roads with higher limits which have similar segregation of obstacles and VRUs from moving traffic, have a significantly lower propensity for accidents caused by speed or speed alone.
Other factors are more weighted in causing the accident and must also be present (e.g. a driver blocks Lane 3, so an impatient driver undertakes in Lane 1, doesn't see the truck merging... you get my drift).

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 15-12-2018 1:27pm

Dont be coming here with your facts and figures...this is about feelings and outrage

mgn · 15-12-2018 2:42pm

Patww79 wrote: »

They're never sneaky when you're not speeding. I notice less and less giving a warning flash these days too so maybe a lot of people are finally copping on you'd hope.

I always flash when i see a speed van and when someone else flashes me i appreciate it.Some people spend a lot of time on the road and doesn't take long to get a few points.not because there always speeding but a simple thing like overtalking and the idiot your trying to pass puts the foot down because the see a straight road ahead after being stuck behind them for a half an hour.
Its okay for the Sunday driver on here to think that Lord Ross idea is a good one.Trying doing 15- 20 thousand miles a year.then come back here an see what you think.

OldMrBrennan83 · 15-12-2018 2:47pm

mgn wrote: »

I always flash when i see a speed van and when someone else flashes me i appreciate it.Some people spend a lot of time on the road and doesn't take long to get a few points.not because there always speeding but a simple thing like overtalking and the idiot your trying to pass puts the foot down because the see a straight road ahead after being stuck behind them for a half an hour.
Its okay for the Sunday driver on here to think that Lord Ross idea is a good one.Trying doing 15- 20 thousand miles a year.then come back here an see what you think.

I do 60 thousand a year and I think the same as I said above.

So?

_

mgn · 15-12-2018 3:17pm

Patww79 wrote: »

I do 60 thousand a year and I think the same as I said above.

So?

_

You do 60 thousand a year and never broke the speed limit.Your talking s*it.

OldMrBrennan83 · 15-12-2018 3:18pm

mgn wrote: »

You do 60 thousand a year and never broke the speed limit.Your talking s*it.

I can't afford to.

sdanseo · 15-12-2018 3:21pm

mgn wrote: »

You do 60 thousand a year and never broke the speed limit.Your talking s*it.

I did 30k in six months last year with work - stuck to the limit religiously. Cruise control makes it easy.
Doesn't change my opinion that the limits are too low but it was no major hardship either.

Four times even slightly over and no job. It's those with the long commutes who are most careful.

Thankfully not doing as many km any more

mgn · 15-12-2018 3:27pm

Patww79 wrote: »

I can't afford to.

Not many can.Whatever about the fine the points are the problem.It only gives the insurance companies an excuse to add on another few hundred on to your insurance.I always try to keep within the limits but there is times when you can be a small bit over.

Bruthal · 15-12-2018 3:28pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is that what it's going to take to stop people being killed on the road?

Banning driving would be needed. We see many say "if it saves one life, its worth it"

OldMrBrennan83 · 15-12-2018 3:29pm

mgn wrote: »

Not many can.Whatever about the fine the points are the problem.It only gives the insurance companies an excuse to add on another few hundred on to your insurance.I always try to keep within the limits but there is times when you can be a small bit over.

I don't pay for the insurance so that end of it is grand (though they wouldn't be all that happy), but 12 points = no driving = no job. If you aim to never get the first three then I hope it'll have harder get the twelve.

mgn · 15-12-2018 3:38pm

sdanseo wrote: »

I did 30k in six months last year with work - stuck to the limit religiously. Cruise control makes it easy.
Doesn't change my opinion that the limits are too low but it was no major hardship either.

Four times even slightly over and no job. It's those with the long commutes who are most careful.

Thankfully not doing as many km any more

Cruise control makes it easy.i always use it on the motorway.But i bet not many that drives from Dublin on the N4/N5 to either Sligo or Mayo didn't break the limit on some occasion trying to pass some clown doing 60km or 70km.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 15-12-2018 3:44pm

Is Ross doing anything to actually enforce these changes?
Simple to sign a piece of paper. Financing the Gardaí is of far more significance.
Can’t remember the last time I passed a Gardaí checkpoint or seen them on the road.
Private speedvans (and the incentive to “hide and catch”) are likely to be more prevalent.

Ubbquittious · 15-12-2018 4:21pm

Shane Ross can go f*ck himself

swarlb · 15-12-2018 5:46pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Shane Ross can go f*ck himself

The Irish hate being told what to do...
They also love being praised and being told they are 'doing a good job'
But most of all they hate being told what to do...
Taxes are to be avoided at all costs...
Any written warning sign is there simply to be ignored...
Hard earned driving licences are meant to be left ANYWHERE except with the driver...
If an Irish person sees an 80 kph sign, as far as they are concerned it really means 'anything above 80 within (what they think is) a reasonable amount...
For some reason they also seem to think there is an 'allowance' that is considered to be ok 'above' any posted speed limit for the purpose of being caught.
But most of all they really, really hate being told what to do..
They'll evoke anything to get out of it.. from 800 years of oppression to 'The but we are Special' clause.
I would guarantee that every Irish person who has left to live in the USA (for example) has stuck rigidly to posted speed limits, yet at home they feel somehow exempt.
Apart from hating being told what to do, they even have more hatred for any figure of authority.
Just get on with it, obey the posted speed limits, and incur no fines.
It isn't rocket science....

Ubbquittious · 15-12-2018 5:57pm

swarlb wrote: »

The Irish hate being told what to do...
They also love being praised and being told they are 'doing a good job'
But most of all they hate being told what to do...
Taxes are to be avoided at all costs...
Any written warning sign is there simply to be ignored...
Hard earned driving licences are meant to be left ANYWHERE except with the driver...
If an Irish person sees an 80 kph sign, as far as they are concerned it really means 'anything above 80 within (what they think is) a reasonable amount...
For some reason they also seem to think there is an 'allowance' that is considered to be ok 'above' any posted speed limit for the purpose of being caught.
But most of all they really, really hate being told what to do..
They'll evoke anything to get out of it.. from 800 years of oppression to 'The but we are Special' clause.
I would guarantee that every Irish person who has left to live in the USA (for example) has stuck rigidly to posted speed limits, yet at home they feel somehow exempt.
Apart from hating being told what to do, they even have more hatred for any figure of authority.
Just get on with it, obey the posted speed limits, and incur no fines.
It isn't rocket science....

We are being told to do an awful lot more than we were 20 or 30 years ago. I'm just sh1t sick of the government encroachment at this stage. Every aspect of our lives has a law now and no sooner is it introduced and they're already thinking up a newer, stricter one. Shane Ross & friends and the EU can all take a long walk off a short pier as far as I'm concerned.

cdaly_ · 15-12-2018 6:01pm

sdanseo wrote: »

As previously mentioned in this thread I have a BSc in this area and came to a similar conclusion in relation to motorways in a road safety thesis. I found the proportion of accidents on high speed roads to be very significantly lower than on low speed roads. Yes, there are more low speed roads than motorways, so it's not a perfect measurement and the detail didn't extend to traffic counts at the time as the data wasn't as available. But the motorways carry infinitely more traffic.

In my qualified opinion, a direct inference of that is that speed alone, on roads with higher limits which have similar segregation of obstacles and VRUs from moving traffic, have a significantly lower propensity for accidents caused by speed or speed alone.
Other factors are more weighted in causing the accident and must also be present (e.g. a driver blocks Lane 3, so an impatient driver undertakes in Lane 1, doesn't see the truck merging... you get my drift).

In the course of your studies did you come across any evidence for or against the proposition that damage done in any incident increases as the speed involved increases?

amcalester · 15-12-2018 6:05pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

We are being told to do an awful lot more than we were 20 or 30 years ago. I'm just sh1t sick of the government encroachment at this stage. Every aspect of our lives has a law now and no sooner is it introduced and they're already thinking up a newer, stricter one. Shane Ross & friends and the EU can all take a long walk off a short pier as far as I'm concerned.

It’s the punishment that may be changed, not the limits so the only people being encroached on are those breaking the law.

Bruthal · 15-12-2018 6:19pm

amcalester wrote: »

It’s the punishment that may be changed, not the limits so the only people being encroached on are those breaking the law.

A ban etc for 1 kph over limit won't ever affect you no doubt.

Allinall · 15-12-2018 6:22pm

Bruthal wrote: »

A ban etc for 1 kph over limit won't ever affect you no doubt.

Won’t affect anyone.

amcalester · 15-12-2018 6:24pm

Bruthal wrote: »

A ban etc for 1 kph over limit won't ever affect you no doubt.

No one will be banned just for being 1 kph over the limit.

Bruthal · 15-12-2018 6:25pm

swarlb wrote: »

...
Hard earned driving licences are meant to be left ANYWHERE except with the driver...

Is there a link between that and safer driving?

Bruthal · 15-12-2018 6:28pm

amcalester wrote: »

No one will be banned just for being 1 kph over the limit.

Point was, if there was a ban for that, some posters here would have no worry about it. As it would only affect those breaking the law.

Bruthal · 15-12-2018 6:30pm

Allinall wrote: »

Won’t affect anyone.

But it's breaking the law. But no punishment?

doolox · 15-12-2018 6:31pm

The more you concede the more these parasites will want. It is now time to kick back against the constant demands for more and stricter rules.

We have enough rules as it is.

People have got to go to work.

Even if they were to reduce speed limits after working hours but this would screw up shift workers.

You cannot have a situation where people on the margins of speed refractions are turfed out of their hard-won jobs to satisfy the ideological fetishes of a semi delinquent non party demagogue.

I sincerely hope Ross comes last in the next election. If he dares go for re-election.

amcalester · 15-12-2018 6:33pm

Bruthal wrote: »

Point was, if there was a ban for that, some posters here would have no worry about it. As it would only affect those breaking the law.

But there’s no ban just for that and no one is suggesting there should be, so it’s an irrelevant point at best or a straw man at worst.

Slave_no_more · 15-12-2018 6:40pm

Hi Folks,
Just joined up today.
I can't help but compare us with the French; macron decides to put a few cents on the litre of Diesel and they've been out on the streets every week since protesting and wrecking the place, so much so that he has scrapped the increase and given them a pay rise.
here in Ireland we have a minister who decides to criminalize people who are doing 19mph over speed limit and give penalty points to anyone who forgets their license and no one is doing anything. What is wrong with us that we are such wimps? Maybe we deserve it we are such serfs?
When are motorists in Ireland going to stand up for themselves the way the French do?

OldMrBrennan83 · 15-12-2018 6:43pm

Slave_no_more wrote: »

Hi Folks,
Just joined up today.
I can't help but compare us with the French; macron decides to put a few cents on the litre of Diesel and they've been out on the streets every week since protesting and wrecking the place, so much so that he has scrapped the increase and given them a pay rise.
here in Ireland we have a minister who decides to criminalize people who are doing 19mph over speed limit and give penalty points to anyone who forgets their license and no one is doing anything. What is wrong with us that we are such wimps? Maybe we deserve it we are such serfs?
When are motorists in Ireland going to stand up for themselves the way the French do?

You have to buy fuel, you don't have to go 19km/h over the speed limit.

Bruthal · 15-12-2018 6:44pm

amcalester wrote: »

But there’s no ban just for that and no one is suggesting there should be, so it’s an irrelevant point at best or a straw man at worst.

Some here will support any increase in severity. Only the people who break the law have any concerns.....

amcalester · 15-12-2018 6:50pm

Bruthal wrote: »

Some here will support any increase in severity. Only the people who break the law have any concerns.....

Perhaps, but we can only discuss the actual proposals not some made up punishment that doesn’t exist and isn’t being suggested.

And some will object to any (increase in) punishment for speeding because they want to drive faster than the limit.

Slave_no_more · 15-12-2018 6:51pm

People who support Ross remind me of a sign we have on the wall at work..
"Flogging will continue until morale improves"

jhenno78 · 15-12-2018 6:57pm

Slave_no_more wrote: »

Hi Folks,
Just joined up today.
I can't help but compare us with the French; macron decides to put a few cents on the litre of Diesel and they've been out on the streets every week since protesting and wrecking the place, so much so that he has scrapped the increase and given them a pay rise.
here in Ireland we have a minister who decides to criminalize people who are doing 19mph over speed limit and give penalty points to anyone who forgets their license and no one is doing anything. What is wrong with us that we are such wimps? Maybe we deserve it we are such serfs?
When are motorists in Ireland going to stand up for themselves the way the French do?

Looks legit...

Phoebas · 15-12-2018 7:00pm

demanufactured wrote: »

He can shove his speed limits up his hole.
I was done last week by a sneaky van hidden around a bend.
89kmph in an 80 zone.

KUNTS

Had you considered doing <= 80 in an 80 zone?

swarlb · 15-12-2018 7:01pm

Bruthal wrote: »

Is there a link between that and safer driving?

A 'link'...??? Does everything boil down to the internet, and having to 'link' something....
It's nothing to do with safer driving and everything to do with simple common sense.
If you are driving a car, keep your licence with you, if for no other reason than for the paramedics to identify you in the event of an accident.

thecretinhop · 15-12-2018 7:03pm

ff fg saying no is a good think. ross is a typical loon think they know better. the picture with his zip down says it all

GreeBo · 15-12-2018 7:07pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

A few years ago, didn't want to jerk by stopping and knock my snack box off the window, 1am in a rural town only 2 cars around were mine and the cops.

Why would it have been a jerk?
We're you not paying attention to the road?

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 15-12-2018 7:08pm

Bruthal wrote: »

Point was, if there was a ban for that, some posters here would have no worry about it. As it would only affect those breaking the law.

I am sorry everyone has speeded at some point. Everyone....even you.

Bruthal · 15-12-2018 7:10pm

amcalester wrote: »

Perhaps, but we can only discuss the actual proposals not some made up punishment that doesn’t exist and isn’t being suggested.

And some will object to any (increase in) punishment for speeding because they want to drive faster than the limit.

We can discuss why a percentage might be a more reasonable approach, and how the stated "only law breakers are affected" is too simplistic a support argument for the proposed changes.

Phoebas · 15-12-2018 7:10pm

Bailey Slow Pastrami wrote: »

I am sorry everyone has speeded at some point. Everyone....even you.

That sounds like we have a problem.

Bruthal · 15-12-2018 7:11pm

Bailey Slow Pastrami wrote: »

I am sorry everyone has speeded at some point. Everyone....even you.

I'm sorry, but that's my point

GreeBo · 15-12-2018 7:11pm

sdanseo wrote: »

As previously mentioned in this thread I have a BSc in this area and came to a similar conclusion in relation to motorways in a road safety thesis. I found the proportion of accidents on high speed roads to be very significantly lower than on low speed roads. Yes, there are more low speed roads than motorways, so it's not a perfect measurement and the detail didn't extend to traffic counts at the time as the data wasn't as available. But the motorways carry infinitely more traffic.

In my qualified opinion, a direct inference of that is that speed alone, on roads with higher limits which have similar segregation of obstacles and VRUs from moving traffic, have a significantly lower propensity for accidents caused by speed or speed alone.
Other factors are more weighted in causing the accident and must also be present (e.g. a driver blocks Lane 3, so an impatient driver undertakes in Lane 1, doesn't see the truck merging... you get my drift).

Forget the number of accidents, what were the outcomes of the accidents?
You are more likely to die in an accident at 120 than an accident at 50.

I don't really care if I'm twice as likely to have a fender bender on a 50 road, I'll happily walk away from that.

GreeBo · 15-12-2018 7:14pm

mgn wrote: »

Not many can.Whatever about the fine the points are the problem.It only gives the insurance companies an excuse to add on another few hundred on to your insurance.I always try to keep within the limits but there is times when you can be a small bit over.

You aren't keeping working the limits then, you are driving at the limit.

People need to go look up the definition of what a limit is again.

Bruthal · 15-12-2018 7:14pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Forget the number of accidents, what were the outcomes of the accidents?
You are more likely to die in an accident at 120 than an accident at 50.

I don't really care if I'm twice as likely to have a fender bender on a 50 road, I'll happily walk away from that.

It's not only people inside the car that are involved in accidents. And people outside it are far more likely in the 50 road.

swarlb · 15-12-2018 7:15pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

We are being told to do an awful lot more than we were 20 or 30 years ago. I'm just sh1t sick of the government encroachment at this stage. Every aspect of our lives has a law now and no sooner is it introduced and they're already thinking up a newer, stricter one. Shane Ross & friends and the EU can all take a long walk off a short pier as far as I'm concerned.

I'm old... proper old.
I remember a time when drinking and driving went hand in hand (with a fag in one of them), with no seat belts, no airbags, no isofix, no 'ncap' ratings.
I remember driving from gig to gig, and having a few pints before, during and after the gigs.
I remember falling asleep at the wheel of a Transit on the way to Dublin from The Beaten Path in Longford, falling asleep at the wheel and ending up in a field having no clue what happened, and then having a laugh about it at the next gig, with the bouncers (who were usually Guards).
I remember regularly finishing a gig, staying back for a few pints, and saying goodnight to the same bouncers when they headed of for work at their real jobs.
I remember as driving through a village or town, you'd wait till the white circular sign with the diagonal black band. The one that we took as 'End of Speed Limit' then we'd boot off to the next town.
You've just confirmed my view of the Irish in your post... we hate being told what to do.
After surviving the 60/70/80/00's driving in Ireland, I've decided it's time to grow up, accept the speed limits, and enjoy the few years I have left.
Unfortunately I'm more likely to be done in by some dope similar to what I was like 50 years ago...

mgn · 15-12-2018 7:16pm

swarlb wrote: »

The Irish hate being told what to do...
They also love being praised and being told they are 'doing a good job'
But most of all they hate being told what to do...
Taxes are to be avoided at all costs...
Any written warning sign is there simply to be ignored...
Hard earned driving licences are meant to be left ANYWHERE except with the driver...
If an Irish person sees an 80 kph sign, as far as they are concerned it really means 'anything above 80 within (what they think is) a reasonable amount...
For some reason they also seem to think there is an 'allowance' that is considered to be ok 'above' any posted speed limit for the purpose of being caught.
But most of all they really, really hate being told what to do..
They'll evoke anything to get out of it.. from 800 years of oppression to 'The but we are Special' clause.
I would guarantee that every Irish person who has left to live in the USA (for example) has stuck rigidly to posted speed limits, yet at home they feel somehow exempt.
Apart from hating being told what to do, they even have more hatred for any figure of authority.
Just get on with it, obey the posted speed limits, and incur no fines.
It isn't rocket science....

What's with this " The Irish".Where are you from.And why the F*uk should i listen to an idiot of minister that doesn't even own a car. I had been driving for over 35 years between here and the UK.So i think i know a bit about driving at this stage.

Shane Ross' new speeding penalties

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