The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

eagle eye · 01-12-2018 11:51AM

I think the NFL need to their act together as regards this stuff.
I have to say though that I've seen a lot worse things that what's in that video. It's pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.

BonnieSituation · 01-12-2018 01:05PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I think the NFL need to their act together as regards this stuff.
I have to say though that I've seen a lot worse things that what's in that video. It's pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.

That's an outrageous statement.

jack presley · 01-12-2018 03:25PM

Need to click on tweet to see it in full.

https://twitter.com/HogsHaven/status/1068888081200238592

Oat23 · 01-12-2018 03:51PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

That's an outrageous statement.

Oh relax. Did you watch the video? Hunt wasn't even talking to the girl in the black dress but she felt the need to get up in his face. He's looking behind her the entire time until she comes at him, getting herself involved in someone else's dispute and using racial slurs. Nobody says anything about her behaviour? He showed great restraint. Just because she's a woman her actions shouldn't be excused, but they will be. "Black man assaults innocent white girl" will always be the narrative.

Kicking the idiot when she was on the ground was dumb, but intoxicated people do dumb sh*t. He even showed restraint with the kick though.

The whole thing it being blown way out of proportion.

eagle eye · 01-12-2018 03:54PM

BonnieSituation wrote:

That's an outrageous statement.

What's outrageous? That I've seen a lot of stuff much worse than that?

Jolly Red Giant · 01-12-2018 04:14PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

That's an outrageous statement.

It's not like Hunt doesn't have form on this :rolleyes:

j8wk2feszrnpao · 01-12-2018 05:33PM

Oat23 wrote: »

Oh relax. Did you watch the video? Hunt wasn't even talking to the girl in the black dress but she felt the need to get up in his face. He's looking behind her the entire time until she comes at him, getting herself involved in someone else's dispute and using racial slurs. Nobody says anything about her behaviour? He showed great restraint. Just because she's a woman her actions shouldn't be excused, but they will be. "Black man assaults innocent white girl" will always be the narrative.

Kicking the idiot when she was on the ground was dumb, but intoxicated people do dumb sh*t. He even showed restraint with the kick though.

The whole thing it being blown way out of proportion.

Is there some audio that I'm missing?
The video shows him assaulting her. I don't see the restraint. I see a pattern with him alright.

Billy86 · 01-12-2018 05:46PM

Hazys wrote: »

The stat that's doing the rounds at the moment, is that Aaron Rodgers is 0-37 when going into the 4th Qtr, losing by a point or more against a winning record team.

I know he has similar 4th quarter comebacks numbers as Ryan Tannehill but that stat is pretty crazy.

Sad truth is I'd bet he got GB back in the lead on a good 20+ of those games only for the defense to blow it in the last minute. By the time he'd been in the league 5 years that had happened to him more than Brady and Peyton Mannigg combined, actually close to double if I recall, despite only playing something like 15% of the games that they had combined.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero · 01-12-2018 05:56PM

Don't think he should've been released based on what I heard happened. No one should be allowed to say the things she allegedly said with impunity. He was provoked, he should've reacted in a more mature way considering his profile, but he made an incredibly stupid and scummy mistake. It was an act of drunken rage in a highly tense situation. To lose his career over it would be a bit extreme imo. Then again, I don't know the facts, I'm just basing this on what's out there atm.

As alluded to above there's an awful double standard with these things in the league. What Hunt's teammate did is far worse. I'd much rather have Hunt than Hill based on the crimes.

Foxtrol · 01-12-2018 07:44PM

Pleasantly surprised that Chiefs took the step they did. Have to feel they made the calculation that if they didn't it would be the story of the team and continued distraction for the rest of their season and likely deep playoff run.

I think a large portion of NFL fans still aren't aware of what Hill did and by keeping Hunt it would likely shine even more light on that. Hill is much more valuable to the team than Hunt.

Foxtrol · 01-12-2018 07:52PM

Oat23 wrote: »

Oh relax. Did you watch the video? Hunt wasn't even talking to the girl in the black dress but she felt the need to get up in his face. He's looking behind her the entire time until she comes at him, getting herself involved in someone else's dispute and using racial slurs. Nobody says anything about her behaviour? He showed great restraint. Just because she's a woman her actions shouldn't be excused, but they will be. "Black man assaults innocent white girl" will always be the narrative.

Kicking the idiot when she was on the ground was dumb, but intoxicated people do dumb sh*t. He even showed restraint with the kick though.

The whole thing it being blown way out of proportion.

Why ask about seeing the video and then post a clip of it edited to mildest part of it?

Your talk of great restraint is laughable. He literally has 4 different friends trying to drag him away from ruining his life and he still pushes them out of the way to do so.

jack presley · 01-12-2018 07:53PM

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

Don't think he should've been released based on what I heard happened. No one should be allowed to say the things she allegedly said with impunity. He was provoked, he should've reacted in a more mature way considering his profile, but he made an incredibly stupid and scummy mistake. It was an act of drunken rage in a highly tense situation. To lose his career over it would be a bit extreme imo. Then again, I don't know the facts, I'm just basing this on what's out there atm.

As alluded to above there's an awful double standard with these things in the league. What Hunt's teammate did is far worse. I'd much rather have Hunt than Hill based on the crimes.

I have an issue with the two bold statements above. if you're not allowed get away with what she's said, is there a scale of punishments due for different levels of verbal abuse then? A few slaps for mild abuse, going up in scale to a full beat down for a racial slur etc?

And secondly, drink should never be used as an excuse or as a justification.

AbusesToilets · 01-12-2018 08:09PM

Would there be an ounce of the furor if it was drunken person A having a bit of aggro with drunken person B? Equality goes both ways.

jack presley · 01-12-2018 08:14PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Would there be an ounce of the furor if it was drunken person A having a bit of aggro with drunken person B? Equality goes both ways.

Probably not but the NFL, which is a private corporation with an agreed CBA with its labour, has a conduct policy that doesn't apply in most of the real world. And this incident falls foul of the conduct policy so random drunken person A attacking random drunken person B doesn't apply.

Foxtrol · 01-12-2018 08:19PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Would there be an ounce of the furor if it was drunken person A having a bit of aggro with drunken person B? Equality goes both ways.

If my aunt had balls...

Oat23 · 01-12-2018 09:20PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Why ask about seeing the video and then post a clip of it edited to mildest part of it?

Your talk of great restraint is laughable. He literally has 4 different friends trying to drag him away from ruining his life and he still pushes them out of the way to do so.

I posted a GIF showing the part where it started when the girl came at him when he wasn't even talking to her. Look at his body language. It's exactly what his friends and even the girl who he pushed said was happening. Hunt and his girlfriend were trying to get the 'victim' and her drunk friends to leave because they were being loud and annoying. He's not being confrontational. He's asking them to go, pointing at the elevator and she starts coming at him.

It was dumb of him to get involved and push some stupid teenager but the whole thing is stupid. Scuffles like this happen all the time. Had it been some white guy coming at him and calling him and his friends n*ggers it would have been a whole lot worse than a shoving contest. So yes, great restraint was shown.

Foxtrol · 01-12-2018 10:35PM

Oat23 wrote: »

I posted a GIF showing the part where it started when the girl came at him when he wasn't even talking to her. Look at his body language. It's exactly what his friends and even the girl who he pushed said was happening. Hunt and his girlfriend were trying to get the 'victim' and her drunk friends to leave because they were being loud and annoying. He's not being confrontational. He's asking them to go, pointing at the elevator and she starts coming at him.

It was dumb of him to get involved and push some stupid teenager but the whole thing is stupid. Scuffles like this happen all the time.

Push her, charge her and knock her down, and kick while she was on the ground.

Had it been some white guy coming at him and calling him and his friends n*ggers it would have been a whole lot worse than a shoving contest.

More 'what if' crap. It wasn't a guy, it was a drunk teenage girl that was half his size.

So yes, great restraint was shown.

So from events that actually happened how did he show the restraint you've claimed?

eagle eye · 01-12-2018 10:42PM

Foxtrol wrote:

Push her, charge her and knock her down, and kick while she was on the ground.

I'm, there wasn't much to it. I didn't see what I'd call violence.

Foxtrol wrote:

More 'what if' crap. It wasn't a guy, it was a drunk teenage girl that was half his size.

And we are supposed to walk away but the guy was drunk and already upset.

Foxtrol wrote:

So from events that actually happened how did he show the restraint you've claimed?

He didn't do serious damage, his kick was limp and he walked away then.

I've seen the results of real domestic violence and this ain't close. In an Irish court I'd expect a fine and a slap on the wrist for something like this.

Oat23 · 01-12-2018 11:06PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I've seen the results of real domestic violence and this ain't close. In an Irish court I'd expect a fine and a slap on the wrist for something like this.

Ray Rice knocking his fiance out cold and dragging her around while she's unconscious is domestic violence. Chris Brown beating the sh*t out of Rihanna is too. This is just two dumb people who don't even know each other having an altercation. Not sure why the media keep calling it domestic violence. It's missing the domestic part.

Foxtrol wrote: »

So from events that actually happened how did he show the restraint you've claimed?

Because he didn't punch her like he would have done if it had been a guy. Luckily for her Hunt doesn't seem to be a believer in the whole equality thing. :pac:

TJ Mackie · 01-12-2018 11:09PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

So from events that actually happened how did he show the restraint you've claimed?

Do you think that slender young woman would have gotten up if NFL running back Kareem Hunt kicked her full force without any restraint?

Itssoeasy · 02-12-2018 02:28AM

I mean how is this different to Ray Rice ? He was only ****canned by the NFL after the video emerged. Whether it's the right thing to do or not, kareem hunt should be given the Ray Rice treatment as that was the standard set by the NFL back then.

Realt Dearg Sec · 02-12-2018 03:42AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I mean how is this different to Ray Rice ? He was only ****canned by the NFL after the video emerged. Whether it's the right thing to do or not, kareem hunt should be given the Ray Rice treatment as that was the standard set by the NFL back then.

Well personally I don't want to get into the debate above whether it's serious or not, but just focusing on the league's response, the Ray Rice saga was the exact, textbook definition of how NOT to handle a situation like this, so copying it again just demonstrates that they have learned nothing and have no intention of learning anything. The principle it establishes is, basically, crimes committed in front of cameras are more serious than ones not on cameras. Now given that the NFL wants us to believe that they have this player conduct policy for ethical reasons, this principle of "you're fired if TMZ show it" demonstrates quite clearly that this ethical appeal is complete hypocrisy on their part. The NFL, incredibly, had claimed in the Ray Rice saga that they didn't see the video until it went public. What the Rice thing revealed was the extent to which their conduct policy is nothing more than damage control and image projection. The whole point in the aftermath of it was that the league promised it would and could do better, that they had failed to live up to the standards they supposedly set for themselves.

This demonstrates what we already knew: Roger Gooddell is, in a word, a sh1tehawk.

02-12-2018 07:01AM

eagle eye wrote: »

I've seen the results of real domestic violence and this ain't close. In an Irish court I'd expect a fine and a slap on the wrist for something like this.

True. But in Ireland, expect to have difficulty getting some jobs with a conviction for assaulting a woman.

Ultimately he's a professional athlete, she's a young woman.

Whether he checked his kick or not, it shouldn't get to the stage where he's thinking of kicking a woman. It should not even cross his mind. He always has the option of walking away and closing the door.

So while we've all seen worse, some of us may have seen victims of violence and domestic violence beaten black and blue, with broken limbs, on the other hand if he costs him his career I wouldn't be remotely sympathetic. Actions have consequences.

Christy42 · 02-12-2018 08:09AM

eagle eye wrote: »

Foxtrol wrote:

Push her, charge her and knock her down, and kick while she was on the ground.

I'm, there wasn't much to it. I didn't see what I'd call violence.

Foxtrol wrote:

More 'what if' crap. It wasn't a guy, it was a drunk teenage girl that was half his size.

And we are supposed to walk away but the guy was drunk and already upset.

Foxtrol wrote:

So from events that actually happened how did he show the restraint you've claimed?

He didn't do serious damage, his kick was limp and he walked away then.

I've seen the results of real domestic violence and this ain't close. In an Irish court I'd expect a fine and a slap on the wrist for something like this.

He was drunk and upset. That does not matter. He didn't have to go violent. He can scream and shout at her all he likes. And I don't care what you call violent. That is violent. Saying you have seen worse is also pointless - just because someone beat someone else up more does not give you a free pass.

The video someone else posted (hilariously meant to be in his defense) shows he is pushing through people to make it violent.

Actions have consequences (well in the NFL only if a video gets released).

brinty · 02-12-2018 09:38AM

Folks the Ray rice incident is no basis for punishment. Zeke Elliott got 6 games for an incident that he wasn't convicted off,with no evidence like we have with Hunt, so that's the absolute minimum base line of what hunt should be punished with. A full season is probably a fair punishment,and then see if teams are willing to take him on,you'd hope no team would but someone will with out doubt.

I applaud the chiefs for their stance.

Podge_irl · 02-12-2018 01:33PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Well personally I don't want to get into the debate above whether it's serious or not, but just focusing on the league's response, the Ray Rice saga was the exact, textbook definition of how NOT to handle a situation like this, so copying it again just demonstrates that they have learned nothing and have no intention of learning anything. The principle it establishes is, basically, crimes committed in front of cameras are more serious than ones not on cameras. Now given that the NFL wants us to believe that they have this player conduct policy for ethical reasons, this principle of "you're fired if TMZ show it" demonstrates quite clearly that this ethical appeal is complete hypocrisy on their part. The NFL, incredibly, had claimed in the Ray Rice saga that they didn't see the video until it went public. What the Rice thing revealed was the extent to which their conduct policy is nothing more than damage control and image projection. The whole point in the aftermath of it was that the league promised it would and could do better, that they had failed to live up to the standards they supposedly set for themselves.

This demonstrates what we already knew: Roger Gooddell is, in a word, a sh1tehawk.

Crimes committed on camera are a teensy bit easier to prove than ones not on camera...

Foxtrol · 02-12-2018 01:56PM

Oat23 wrote: »

Because he didn't punch her like he would have done if it had been a guy. Luckily for her Hunt doesn't seem to be a believer in the whole equality thing. :pac:

I would say that I really doubt you'd feel the same if you heard your sister or mother was treated like that by a man twice her size, no matter how much of an eejit she was acting, but I'm sure you'll say here that you'd feel she should be thankful not to have gotten more of a beating. :rolleyes:

If Hunt tries your weak justification that him going repeatedly after a woman and despite being held back by 4 people still knocking her to the ground and kicking her is him showing restraint then he will rightly never play in the league again.

Realt Dearg Sec · 02-12-2018 02:15PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Well personally I don't want to get into the debate above whether it's serious or not, but just focusing on the league's response, the Ray Rice saga was the exact, textbook definition of how NOT to handle a situation like this, so copying it again just demonstrates that they have learned nothing and have no intention of learning anything. The principle it establishes is, basically, crimes committed in front of cameras are more serious than ones not on cameras. Now given that the NFL wants us to believe that they have this player conduct policy for ethical reasons, this principle of "you're fired if TMZ show it" demonstrates quite clearly that this ethical appeal is complete hypocrisy on their part. The NFL, incredibly, had claimed in the Ray Rice saga that they didn't see the video until it went public. What the Rice thing revealed was the extent to which their conduct policy is nothing more than damage control and image projection. The whole point in the aftermath of it was that the league promised it would and could do better, that they had failed to live up to the standards they supposedly set for themselves.

This demonstrates what we already knew: Roger Gooddell is, in a word, a sh1tehawk.

Crimes committed on camera are a teensy bit easier to prove than ones not on camera...

They already had proof in the rice case that it had happened, proof wasn't the issue, optics were. Secondly, it defies credibility that the NFL and the Ravens didn't have access to that video before we all did. They only acted on it when it went public. To pretend that the NFL were doing everything they could to get to the bottom of it all but just needed the video proof to really get after Rice is an absolutely hilarious revision of what actually happened.

Foxtrol · 02-12-2018 02:17PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm, there wasn't much to it. I didn't see what I'd call violence.

It isn't to Rice levels of violence but pushing, then knocking someone to the ground, and then kicking them isn't violence?

And we are supposed to walk away but the guy was drunk and already upset.

He didn't do serious damage, his kick was limp and he walked away then.

None of these are valid excuses for his actions.

I've seen the results of real domestic violence and this ain't close. In an Irish court I'd expect a fine and a slap on the wrist for something like this.

In every NFL disciplinary case why do posters continue to use as a discussion point what would happen in a real court?

If someone worked in any other small close knit industry they would likely be fired and struggle to get work if there were rumours that they assaulted a woman and later video surfaced confirming that they had and also lied to their employer about the incident.

Podge_irl · 02-12-2018 03:13PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

They already had proof in the rice case that it had happened, proof wasn't the issue, optics were. Secondly, it defies credibility that the NFL and the Ravens didn't have access to that video before we all did. They only acted on it when it went public. To pretend that the NFL were doing everything they could to get to the bottom of it all but just needed the video proof to really get after Rice is an absolutely hilarious revision of what actually happened.

No one is arguing otherwise on the Rice case.

Your contention that they are "copying" the same approach here and setting precedent is based on absolutely nothing. In a scenario where some witnesses and victims won't co-operate with the NFL and the hotel won't release the video to them (and I see no reason to doubt that considering its coming from the hotel itself and would be a pretty standard policy) they can only go off what information they can get. Considering the only people who actually gave their side was the perpetrator it is not exactly a leap of faith to think they downplayed the incident. The video contradicts their story and is evidence the NFL did not previously have.

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

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