Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Strazdas · 29-11-2018 04:00PM

robinph wrote: »

But "home" was listed as in the UK.

Would need to be ordinarily resident for 5 of the previous 12 years to get that (may have the numbers wrong). It sounds like he just flies over to Trinity every now and then. Maybe if he's doing that every week though he might clock up enough days per year to count as resident in Ireland rather than the UK.

Not necessarily continuously though, he may have clocked up enough years on the clock when all added together.

An Ciarraioch · 29-11-2018 04:18PM

At least they can still fly to America next year:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46380463

BonnieSituation · 29-11-2018 04:24PM

listermint wrote: »

I would question how he managed to get it though ?

When I read it this morning that was my first thought.

blanch152 · 29-11-2018 04:50PM

Akrasia wrote: »

In fairness, it is all Ireland's fault for being invaded and occupied by the English for 800 years and then having a war of independence and the English saying we could only have 3/4 of the island back, and then decades later following a bloody civil war having a peace process that involved an international treaty signed by the UK and Ireland with conditions that make their current brexit a little bit awkward for them.

Ireland didn't exist before the British organised us.

We are like India and Pakistan and other made-up countries created by British colonialism. There was no single Irish identity or single Irish political unit before the British created one.

Sam Russell · 29-11-2018 04:50PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Ireland didn't exist before the British organised us.

We are like India and Pakistan and other made-up countries created by British colonialism. There was no single Irish identity or single Irish political unit before the British created one.

Ard Ri?

blanch152 · 29-11-2018 04:55PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

Ard Ri?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ireland#/media/File:Www.wesleyjohnston.com-users-ireland-maps-historical-map1014.gif

"By the 12th century, Ireland was divided politically into a shifting hierarchy of petty kingdoms and over-kingdoms. Power was exercised by the heads of a few regional dynasties vying against each other for supremacy over the whole island."

First Up · 29-11-2018 05:03PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Sam Russell wrote: »

Ard Ri?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ireland#/media/File:Www.wesleyjohnston.com-users-ireland-maps-historical-map1014.gif

"By the 12th century, Ireland was divided politically into a shifting hierarchy of petty kingdoms and over-kingdoms. Power was exercised by the heads of a few regional dynasties vying against each other for supremacy over the whole island."

So was most of Europe.

Professor Moriarty · 29-11-2018 05:03PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Ireland didn't exist before the British organised us.

We are like India and Pakistan and other made-up countries created by British colonialism. There was no single Irish identity or single Irish political unit before the British created one.

There was no Kingdom of Ireland. However, in the vast majority of the island there was a society with a common language, common customs, common religion, common laws etc. Being Irish was very distinct.

An Ciarraioch · 29-11-2018 05:04PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Akrasia wrote: »

In fairness, it is all Ireland's fault for being invaded and occupied by the English for 800 years and then having a war of independence and the English saying we could only have 3/4 of the island back, and then decades later following a bloody civil war having a peace process that involved an international treaty signed by the UK and Ireland with conditions that make their current brexit a little bit awkward for them.

Ireland didn't exist before the British organised us.

We are like India and Pakistan and other made-up countries created by British colonialism. There was no single Irish identity or single Irish political unit before the British created one.

Neither had Germany, Italy, Spain, Russia or modern France during the same era.

ArmaniJeanss · 29-11-2018 05:06PM

I'm not sure this TV debate is good for anyone still clinging to Peoples Vote/2nd Referendum.

Corbyn performs poorly in this debate and May looks like a fantastic stateswoman - pressure grows on her MPs to back her and vote for the deal.
Chances of deal passing improve.

Corbyn performs brilliant in this debate, buries May and looks like a future PM - pressure grows on ERG to take any Brexit they can whilst they can, and other Tory MPs panic at the thought of losing their seat in any imminent GE if the deal vote is rejected. Chances of deal passing improve.

An Ciarraioch · 29-11-2018 05:07PM

Some significant findings in a new poll - 422 GB constituencies now Remain, which is on 56% overall, Welsh Leave vote has virtually collapsed, 66% support a new referendum:

http://twitter.com/RhunapIorwerth/status/1067924278438477825

FrancieBrady · 29-11-2018 05:10PM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'm not sure this TV debate is good for anyone still clinging to Peoples Vote/2nd Referendum.

Corbyn performs poorly in this debate and May looks like a fantastic stateswoman - pressure grows on her MPs to back her and vote for the deal.
Chances of deal passing improve.

Corbyn performs brilliant in this debate, buries May and looks like a future PM - pressure grows on ERG to take any Brexit they can whilst they can, and other Tory MPs panic at the thought of losing their seat in any imminent GE if the deal vote is rejected. Chances of deal passing improve.

Has anyone found out what May's people mean by 'wanting a panel' for the debate?

judeboy101 · 29-11-2018 05:20PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Has anyone found out what May's people mean by 'wanting a panel' for the debate?

Either one v one with 3 or more moderators.
One v one followed by a panel discussion with ppl from both sides
One v one with town hall style q&a similar to tm's BBC "debate" but this time with Corby on stage

RobMc59 · 29-11-2018 05:32PM

blanch152 wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ireland#/media/File:Www.wesleyjohnston.com-users-ireland-maps-historical-map1014.gif

"By the 12th century, Ireland was divided politically into a shifting hierarchy of petty kingdoms and over-kingdoms. Power was exercised by the heads of a few regional dynasties vying against each other for supremacy over the whole island."

You're going to take some outraged flack-probably saying"well all of Europe was like that"....

FrancieBrady · 29-11-2018 05:33PM

judeboy101 wrote: »

Either one v one with 3 or more moderators.
One v one followed by a panel discussion with ppl from both sides
One v one with town hall style q&a similar to tm's BBC "debate" but this time with Corby on stage

Is that a guess or the actual options?

RobMc59 · 29-11-2018 05:53PM

Oh well-there's one piece of lighter news for the British-macron was apparently incandescent with rage when he found out the UK retain control of their waters,according to Gove.

Sam Russell · 29-11-2018 05:55PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

Oh well-there's one piece of lighter news for the British-macron was apparently incandescent with rage when he found out the UK retain control of their waters,according to Gove.

Retaining the rights to fish is OK but the UK do not eat their own fish - they export it and import the fish they eat.

EdgeCase · 29-11-2018 06:00PM

I have my doubts he was incandescent with anything tbh.

There's a British tabloid-like agenda to paint Macron, Varadkar, Merkel, JC Juncker and anyone else as being full of rage and fire or somehow in a panic to pander to the UK's demands.

In reality, they probably responded pretty blandly.

I don't even bother listening to the Brexiteers' commentaries on other politicians moods anymore. They are always trying to get a tabloid headline. I'd rather deal with facts.

RobMc59 · 29-11-2018 06:04PM

EdgeCase wrote: »

I have my doubts he was incandescent with anything tbh.

There's a British tabloid-like agenda to paint Macron, Varadkar, Merkel, JC Juncker and anyone else as being full of rage and fire or somehow in a panic to pander to the UK's demands.

In reality, they probably responded pretty blandly.

Personally I doubted it as it was the telegraph who along with the BBC seem biased to say the least.

RobMc59 · 29-11-2018 06:30PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

Retaining the rights to fish is OK but the UK do not eat their own fish - they export it and import the fish they eat.

Countries will still buy mackrel and Britain will still buy fish from the Scandinavian countries-nothing new there.

flatty · 29-11-2018 06:34PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Some significant findings in a new poll - 422 GB constituencies now Remain, which is on 56% overall, Welsh Leave vote has virtually collapsed, 66% support a new referendum:

http://twitter.com/RhunapIorwerth/status/1067924278438477825

Fcuking Welsh. Voting with their wallets as usual. Where were they when this was a vote of principle? Parading behind the brexit bus.

CelticRambler · 29-11-2018 06:57PM

blanch152 wrote: »

"By the 12th century, Ireland was divided politically into a shifting hierarchy of petty kingdoms and over-kingdoms. Power was exercised by the heads of a few regional dynasties vying against each other for supremacy over the whole island."

That describes Anglo-Norman England perfectly.

Those lads were stomping around my neck of the woods here in France at the same time, too, vying against each other (and the French and the Spanish) for supremacy over various bits of western Europe.

The Romans, though, knew of Ireland as a discrete entity; and the monastic missions - most notably those coming out of the Columbanus stable - were very active in setting up Irish colonies across west-central Europe in the 5-600s

Strazdas · 29-11-2018 07:30PM

flatty wrote: »

Fcuking Welsh. Voting with their wallets as usual. Where were they when this was a vote of principle? Parading behind the brexit bus.

It suggests though that Wales was never on board the Brexit / UKIP bandwagon in the way the English nationalists are.

They probably genuinely thought in 2016 it would leave them better off but have quickly realised the error of their ways. With many of the English Brexiteers on the other hand, there's a lot of ideology involved and strong dislike of the EU and foreigners.

Spanish Eyes · 29-11-2018 07:48PM

If and just saying IF there is another referendum, what do you think the choices should be?

1. WA
2. Stay in EU

Or what?

I think it is just too problematic. If leaving without an agreement is an option, that could win. Hard Brexit.

Such a fkn mess. But the only ones to blame are the British (well Brexiteers) themselves with their oversized sense of entitlement, their arrogance, their lack of planning, their FPTP system that means little engagement in politics, and last but not least, their post colonial hubris.

Woops.

ancapailldorcha · 29-11-2018 07:55PM

Mod: Please don't post links without some sort of description of the contents.

An Ciarraioch · 29-11-2018 08:28PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

If and just saying IF there is another referendum, what do you think the choices should be?

1. WA
2. Stay in EU

Or what?

I think it is just too problematic. If leaving without an agreement is an option, that could win. Hard Brexit.

Such a fkn mess. But the only ones to blame are the British (well Brexiteers) themselves with their oversized sense of entitlement, their arrogance, their lack of planning, their FPTP system that means little engagement in politics, and last but not least, their post colonial hubris.

Woops.

As has been said here before, can't imagine any government could include no deal as an option, though nothing would surprise me at this point.

ancapailldorcha · 29-11-2018 08:33PM

The problem with adding a no deal option is that it would split the leave vote and therefore might permit the referendum from proceeding. In 2016, Vote Leave found that changing the question from a Yes/No to a Remain/Leave increased their share by 4% and they successfully lobbied for it to be changed accordingly.

Unless it was either a Remain/Deal or Remain/RemainX/Leave with deal/No deal, I can't see how it would be considered a fair choice.