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Russian Foreign Policy Megamix

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    #332
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    CNN reporter.

    https://twitter.com/barbarastarrcnn/status/1067068609648828416


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    #333
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,210 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    What it say doesn't work for me?

    UN security council meeting.
    Fails to load now.


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    #334
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,918 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Poroshenko: we have serious grounds to believe Russia is ready to follow with the ground attack. I have evidence collected by our intelligence. This time Russia is not hiding, blatantly attacking Ukraine

    If this is true why can the west do to stop it? There no possible way we defeat Russian militarily.

    Well if it weren't for Trump, the US could shut down Russian access to the Swift banking system for 24 hours as a warning.


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    #335
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Well if it weren't for Trump, the US could shut down Russian access to the Swift banking system for 24 hours as a warning.

    24 hours would be nothing to Russia they seemingly have bypassed sanctions by using shadow banking in South Ossetia and other shady deals to fund other military operations in Ukraine , Georgia and Moldova.

    Kick them out of swift system for a month and if that doesn't give them a bit a cop on extend it to 6 months plus
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #336
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Poroshenko: we have serious grounds to believe Russia is ready to follow with the ground attack. I have evidence collected by our intelligence. This time Russia is not hiding, blatantly attacking Ukraine

    If this is true why can the west do to stop it? There no possible way we defeat Russian militarily.

    Realistically, there isn't much that can be done militarily at the moment.

    Increasing sanctions is about all that they can do. While that doesn't sound like much, they can be very effective against a country like Russia where the most of the wealth is in the hands of Putin and his oligarchs - especially when these guys like to keep a lot of wealth outside of Russia. This of course depends on a united West and a willingness to enforce such sanctions and that comes with its own challenges.


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    #337
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,918 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    Realistically, there isn't much that can be done militarily at the moment.

    Increasing sanctions is about all that they can do. While that doesn't sound like much, they can be very effective against a country like Russia where the most of the wealth is in the hands of Putin and his oligarchs - especially when these guys like to keep a lot of wealth outside of Russia. This of course depends on a united West and a willingness to enforce such sanctions and that comes with its own challenges.

    Europe should start building some large LNG tanker ports. That would give Putin pause for thought. Halve Russia's gas income and they would be in serious economic pain.


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    #338
    badtoro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭badtoro


    cnocbui wrote: »
    mcmoustache wrote: »
    Realistically, there isn't much that can be done militarily at the moment.

    Increasing sanctions is about all that they can do. While that doesn't sound like much, they can be very effective against a country like Russia where the most of the wealth is in the hands of Putin and his oligarchs - especially when these guys like to keep a lot of wealth outside of Russia. This of course depends on a united West and a willingness to enforce such sanctions and that comes with its own challenges.

    Europe should start building some large LNG tanker ports. That would give Putin pause for thought. Halve Russia's gas income and they would be in serious economic pain.

    For our own long term good, in many ways, we should be getting away from fossil fuels. They seem to be mostly located in "difficult" countries.


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    #339
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,886 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Europe should start building some large LNG tanker ports. That would give Putin pause for thought. Halve Russia's gas income and they would be in serious economic pain.

    Would that even make a dent in demand and would costs not skyrocket?


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    #340
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,918 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    badtoro wrote: »
    For our own long term good, in many ways, we should be getting away from fossil fuels. They seem to be mostly located in "difficult" countries.

    There is no getting away from fossil fuels other than going nuclear. Australia will shortly be the world's largest exporter of LNG.


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    #341
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Well if it weren't for Trump, the US could shut down Russian access to the Swift banking system for 24 hours as a warning.

    That's an act of war and frankly, we still uncertain what the three Ukranian boats were attempting to do here.

    Russia was hostile that's a fact. Where the Ukrainians trying to provoke Russia though? Why now? Is not normal Ukraine has military boats in this area? What the agreement they signed?


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    #342
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    Realistically, there isn't much that can be done militarily at the moment.

    Increasing sanctions is about all that they can do. While that doesn't sound like much, they can be very effective against a country like Russia where the most of the wealth is in the hands of Putin and his oligarchs - especially when these guys like to keep a lot of wealth outside of Russia. This of course depends on a united West and a willingness to enforce such sanctions and that comes with its own challenges.

    If Russia invades Ukraine that's a hostile act and sure sanction them no war though.

    I just love to know if Russia provoked this or Ukraine did it on purpose?


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    #343
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    That's an act of war and frankly, we still uncertain what the three Ukranian boats were attempting to do here.

    Russia was hostile that's a fact. Where the Ukrainians trying to provoke Russia though? Why now? Is not normal Ukraine has military boats in this area? What the agreement they signed?

    Yes there is multiple military and civilian vessels sharing the small water area just seems russia has claimed all of the water ,,
    They claimed one thing then contradicted their own claims and then went and illegally boarded the Ukrainian vessels and siezed them (piracy)
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #344
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Gatling wrote: »
    Yes there is multiple military and civilian vessels sharing the small water area just seems russia has claimed all of the water ,,
    They claimed one thing then contradicted their own claims and then went and illegally boarded the Ukrainian vessels and siezed them (piracy)

    Commercial traffic is allowed. I not sure they permitted Ukranian military vessels to sail near Crimea? Can you point to where the Russians agreed to this?


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    #345
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Found this.

    The Ukrainian ambassador to the UN, Volodymyr Yelchenko, said the Russian naval authorities had been notified that the three Ukrainian vessels – two cutters and a tugboat – wished to pass through the strait, and had been waiting to hear confirmation on Sunday morning when the vessels were attacked.

    Russian side.
    Polyanskiy said the Ukrainian ships had “illegally crossed Russia’s border”, and the “responsibility lies with those who gave the illegal order” for the ships to cross the Kerch strait.


    So Ukrainian military has to ask Russia permission to pass through the Kerch and they got no response. From what I see the Ukrainians then attempted to push forward and then the Russians attacked ( least that's their version)


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    #346
    Rhineshark
    Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Rhineshark


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Commercial traffic is allowed. I not sure they permitted Ukranian military vessels to sail near Crimea? Can you point to where the Russians agreed to this?

    Can you point to the bit where Ukrainian ships were forbidden from getting to their own ports in the Sea of Azov?

    Russia built a bridge - which is already sagging - across the mouth of the channel, then on Sunday planked a ship sideways to the only passable arch, backing up Ukrainian (and presumably Russian) vessels all day. Then they attacked the Ukrainian military vessels and captured them. While I don't know whether the Ukrainian ships were called to the area or there already, there is not the smallest doubt that Russia is the provocateur in this situation.


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    #347
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Rhineshark wrote: »
    Can you point to the bit where Ukrainian ships were forbidden from getting to their own ports in the Sea of Azov?

    Russia built a bridge - which is already sagging - across the mouth of the channel, then on Sunday planked a ship sideways to the only passable arch, backing up Ukrainian (and presumably Russian) vessels all day. Then they attacked the Ukrainian military vessels and captured them. While I don't know whether the Ukrainian ships were called to the area or there already, there is not the smallest doubt that Russia is the provocateur in this situation.

    The Ukrainian ambassador said it they have to ask for access for military ships to pass through. It clear as day.

    Maybe Russian did provoke Ukraine by not allowing them through. We don't know how long the ships were waiting an hour few hours? They might have pushed through without permission and obviously, the Russians would react to that.


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    #348
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    The Ukrainian ambassador said it they have to ask for access for military ships to pass thtough

    Maybe Russian did provoke

    But Russia just happened to have a large container ship to block access and just happened to have naval special forces in the water along with attack helicopters and fighters to defend from an unarmed tug boat and two small military vessels ,

    Seems to be well planned in advance
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #349
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Gatling wrote: »
    But Russia just happened to have a large container ship to block access and just happened to have naval special forces in the water along with attack helicopters and fighters to defend from an unarmed tug boat and two small military vessels ,

    Seems to be well planned in advance

    No, the strait is off the coastline of Crimea its Russian territory.


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    #350
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,918 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    No, the strait is off the coastline of Crimea its Russian territory.

    When did the UN ratify and recognise the annexation? The Russians don't have the backing of international law.
    Aggressive actions by Ukrainian coast guards in international waters represent not only the risk of seizure of Russian vessels, but also the formation of an actual state piracy," a source in the security agencies of the occupied Crimea told RIA Novosti.

    There you go the Russian's have defined what piracy is and have carried out actual piracy supposedly to prevent hypothetical piracy.

    As is so often the case with Russian bulldust - you couldn't make it up.

    The Russian seizure of Crimea was illegal, therefore they do not have a recognised legal right to interfere with the movement of Ukrainian vessels. A maritime news site claims Russia is in breach of a treaty they signed with Ukraine.
    Russia said Ukrainian Navy broke into Russian territorial waters and Russian inner sea meaning Azov sea, both statements being glaring lies. A 2003 treaty between Russia and Ukraine designates the Kerch Strait and Sea of Azov as shared territorial waters, free for the passage of both Navies ships. Ukraine notified Russia in due order on three ships passage, but Russia nevertheless, attacked Ukrainian ships and accused Ukraine of provocations.
    http://maritimebulletin.net/2018/11/25/russian-navy-attacked-ukrainian-navy-in-azov-sea-kerch-strait-blocked-by-tanker/


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    #351
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    I think it's time to dust off the definition of vranyo:
    A Russian friend explained vranyo this way: 'You know I’m lying, and I know that you know, and you know that I know that you know, but I go ahead with a straight face, and you nod seriously and take notes.'

    The phrase polezny idiot is also as current as ever, I see.


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    #352
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    cnocbui wrote: »
    When did the UN ratify and recognise the annexation? The Russians don't have the backing of international law.



    There you go the Russian's have defined what piracy is and have carried out actual piracy supposedly to prevent hypothetical piracy.

    As is so often the case with Russian bulldust - you couldn't make it up.

    The Russian seizure of Crimea was illegal, therefore they do not have a recognised legal right to interfere with the movement of Ukrainian vessels. A maritime news site claims Russia is in breach of a treaty they signed with Ukraine.

    http://maritimebulletin.net/2018/11/25/russian-navy-attacked-ukrainian-navy-in-azov-sea-kerch-strait-blocked-by-tanker/

    UN is controlled by the West. You know that and I know that.

    Depends on your point of view you see it as an annexation. I see it as the Crimea people preferring to return to Russia after a coup and overthrow of the elected government. 65 per cent of the people living there identifies themselves as Russian. Just 21 per cent identify themselves as Ukranian.

    Russian navy was based in Crimea they were already there before the coup.

    2003 agreement is pre revolution. It doesn't hold up any more after the events that have happened since.


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    #353
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    UN is controlled by the West. You know that and I know that.
    Dude. You don't seem to "know" anything that isn't straight-up Russian propaganda.
    Depends on your point of view you see it as an annexation. I see it as the Crimea people preferring to return to Russia after a coup and overthrow of the elected government.
    I rest my case.


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    #354
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Dude. You don't seem to "know" anything that isn't straight-up Russian propaganda. I rest my case.

    Your point of view.


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    #355
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,918 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    UN is controlled by the West. You know that and I know that.

    Depends on your point of view you see it as an annexation. I see it as the Crimea people preferring to return to Russia after a coup and overthrow of the elected government. 65 per cent of the people living there identifies themselves as Russian. Just 21 per cent identify themselves as Ukranian.

    Russian navy was based in Crimea they were already there before the coup.

    That's why Russia and China sit on the UN security council, have vetoes, and have together blocked more proposed resolutions than a porcupine has quills. The West needs to work on it's 'control' a bit as it doesn't seem very effective.


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    #356
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Your point of view.
    Well, yes. When I see someone reciting Russian propaganda verbatim on an Irish website, my point of view is that they are reciting Russian propaganda.

    For an encore, you might entertain us with a delightful story of Russian tourists visiting Salisbury cathedral. It has a 123m spire, you know.


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    #357
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    cnocbui wrote: »
    That's why Russia and China sit on the UN security council, have vetoes, and have together blocked more proposed resolutions than a porcupine has quills. The West needs to work on it's 'control' a bit as it doesn't seem very effective.

    US, UK, France would veto any resolution anyhow. I not sure what you keep talking about the UN?


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    #358
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Well, yes. When I see someone reciting Russian propaganda verbatim on an Irish website, my point of view is that they are reciting Russian propaganda.

    For an encore, you might entertain us with a delightful story of Russian tourists visiting Salisbury cathedral. It has a 123m spire, you know.

    I actually look at the history of Crimea and people who live there. I can see why the wanted to return to Russia.

    If Crimea population was 100 per cent Ukranian you have a point, not in this case.


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    #359
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I think it's time to dust off the definition of vranyo:
    A Russian friend explained vranyo this way: 'You know I’m lying, and I know that you know, and you know that I know that you know, but I go ahead with a straight face, and you nod seriously and take notes.'

    The phrase polezny idiot is also as current as ever, I see.

    Ah vranyo - useful for whatever war the US gets into next. WMD. Benghazi rapes. Chemical attacks. Whatever the excuse for genocide in Yemen is. Iran I think.

    On which subject there was a chemical attack in Syria recently. Saturday. By the rebels. To little concern.


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    #360
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    cnocbui wrote: »
    That's why Russia and China sit on the UN security council, have vetoes, and have together blocked more proposed resolutions than a porcupine has quills. The West needs to work on it's 'control' a bit as it doesn't seem very effective.

    You might want to look into the resolutions blocked by the US, particularly regarding Israel.


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    #361
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Ah vranyo - useful for whatever war the US gets into next. WMD. Benghazi rapes. Chemical attacks. Whatever the excuse for genocide in Yemen is. Iran I think.

    On which subject there was a chemical attack in Syria recently. Saturday. By the rebels. To little concern.

    Their double standards I think. Sure Russia is playing dirty but some people can't see the west is just as bad if not worse.


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