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So Patrick street is bus only from Thursday 9th August

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    #1832
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Frostybrew wrote: »
    The car ban starts at 3pm.
    Yip, really makes a huge difference to my point.


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    #1833
    mire
    Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭mire


    Cork people generally don't have a clue what urban traffic congestion is. 15 minutes of a hold up on the quays on a Friday evening isn't particularly unusual anywhere. Traffic congestion on the quays is no justification for reversing the bus Lanes. Chill out the folks it's just traffic. I'm in it everyday. Where you have cities you a traffic. People often describe little island like it's some traffic armegeddon. Yeah it's pretty snarled up but it's the standard fare for a busy industrial hub near an important city. People really need some perspective.

    As to those people who think that having traffic go up and down Patrick street is an important ingredient of a successful city centre, I would suggest that you leave 1975 behind and rejoin the rest of the civilized world in 2018. Some people really can't move beyond the idea of cork being a large provincial town. The kind of debate on the airwaves is something I'd expect to hear in a small county town, not in a city with ambition and aspiration.


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    #1834
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    mire wrote: »
    As to those people who think that having traffic go up and down Patrick street is an important ingredient of a successful city centre.......
    There is someone in here actually making that claim? I haven't seen anyone say that's it's an important ingredient.

    You, and others, must have no issue with traffic going up and down Patrick's Street? I mean, it's just traffic.

    I'm for the new measures to try and improve public transport. The issue I have is the implementation by the City Council, which again has been quite poor.


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    #1835
    uptherebels
    Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    macraignil wrote: »

    Some courses and schools open at different dates so a gradual increase rather than a single jump would be expected. Schools and colleges as far as I know usually start their academic year between the end of August and October which is the time frame of the figures being publicised.
    .
    UCC 10th September
    CIT 12th of September
    St John's college 17th september
    Bruce 4th/5th September
    St Al's 24th - 27th August

    Now (while not having access to the term dates of some schools) I'd imagine that slot of the secondary schools in the city would be around the last week of August/first week of September.

    So can you show where any significant number in the increase of students is spread over 12 weeks?


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    #1836
    richiepurgas
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭richiepurgas


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    So 10mins before the ban, and 10mins into the bans, the Quays are not very busy? I know you said that it was a very unscientific survey, I think you mean that it's not a survey at all.
    I only went through the city once in the last month (thankfully) at 5:30pm (I wish it was at 3:30pm), and it was brutal along Merchant's Quay.

    Businesses are always angling for reduced rates (it ain't cheap). They have their own interest at heart, same as just about everyone else.

    Honest to God, the things I do for ye !

    I especially went back in there this evening. Starting at Georges Quay at 5.45pm and ending outside the Opera House just before 6.
    At red lights by Parliament Bridge, there were 6 or 7 cars across 3 lanes waiting to go onto an empty bridge or up Sullivans quay which had just a few vehicles at lights at the South Gate Bridge. Further down the quay just one car in the middle lane, the next nearest being a few about 50 metres away and moving at a fair old pace. Lights went from red to green at the junction of Union Quay and Georges quay and a total of 17 vehicles went through at pace onto a very quiet quay and leaving 3 caught as the lights went to red again.

    Onto South Mall, the lane going on to Parnell Bridge was full back to beyond the Imperial, moving but very slowly. This, however, has nothing to do with the Patrick street ban as it's been like this for years due to volumes of traffic heading towards Douglas, Donnybrook etc. The other two lanes each had about 6 vehicles at lights heading to Parnell Place where the traffic was busy enough but moving. I then saw why there was a bit of a slow-down when I came to Merchants quay car park exit. Cars leaving the building cut across all three lanes, beyond that things were moving much more quickly once they cleared the lights. Lanes westward on the quay were moving quite rapidly, cars held at red lights by the side of the shopping centre moved quickly towards Patrick's bridge where just a few vehicles were stopped. There were about 14 vehicles heading eastwards from the lights at the shopping centre side entrance but the quayside beyond them was clear. Looking back at Brian Boru bridge ( I didn't go down there) there seemed to be a fair number of vehicles, but the entire bridge was not occupied.

    Beyond Patrick's bridge, heading towards the Opera house, there were just a few vehicles held at the Christy Ring bridge lights, bridge itself was quiet and there were 9 vehicles clearing through the lights heading towards Merchants Quay. The reason I concentrated on these areas is that business people seem to have a prepared script for the media saying that the quays are constantly jammed during the hours of the ban. Simply not true.

    Now, I could have sold my services as a traffic consultant with the above info , just dressing it up with a few fancy phrases and charge €3k a day for my work, I believe that's the going rate.
    Ah, you're welcome


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    #1837
    richiepurgas
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭richiepurgas


    I left one thing out of the above post, there were really big crowds waiting for buses at Merchants Quay at about 5.55pm.


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    #1838
    macraignil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,396 ✭✭✭macraignil


    uptherebels wrote: »
    UCC 10th September
    CIT 12th of September
    St John's college 17th september
    Bruce 4th/5th September
    St Al's 24th - 27th August

    Now (while not having access to the term dates of some schools) I'd imagine that slot of the secondary schools in the city would be around the last week of August/first week of September.

    So can you show where any significant number in the increase of students is spread over 12 weeks?

    No. Just trying to point out how they're not all starting at the same time. Thanks for providing some evidence that they do not all start at the same date. Why would demonstrating a gradual increase in numbers be so significant to what I was saying. I was just pointing out that over the period of the footfall figures publicised by the council there are more students about the city over the period they use. Maybe they walk around the city more as they get settled in their course. My point that the figures are skewed by factors outside the car ban is in no way diminished by the increase in footfall from returning students not being precisely gradual over 12 weeks and I think you're just being pedantic.


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    #1839
    Mardyke
    Registered Users Posts: 576 ✭✭✭Mardyke


    Was it this evening the hair salon one who isn't paying her rates was trying to organise a protest against Cork city ?


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    #1840
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    richiepurgas wrote: »
    Ah, you're welcome
    To what? A post on Boards? Thanks, I guess.
    I mean, I can post that I was was stuck in traffic for 50mins today in the city center. There you go, you are welcome.

    Sorry, but like all the other anecdotal evidence (from both sides) it goes into the "not much to see here" bin in terms of actual evidence.

    The "evidence" you provided suggests that traffic (the small amount you quote) in the city center is moving really well (rapidly even) at peak times. Clearly a car ban isn't needed with such low, fast moving, levels of traffic. The CBA would love a traffic consultant like yourself! :P


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    #1841
    richiepurgas
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭richiepurgas


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    To what? A post on Boards? Thanks, I guess.
    I mean, I can post that I was was stuck in traffic for 50mins today in the city center. There you go, you are welcome.

    Sorry, but like all the other anecdotal evidence (from both sides) it goes into the "not much to see here" bin in terms of actual evidence.

    The "evidence" you provided suggests that traffic (the small amount you quote) in the city center is moving really well (rapidly even) at peak times. Clearly a car ban isn't needed with such low, fast moving, levels of traffic. The CBA would love a traffic consultant like yourself! :P

    Much of what I've said should be verifiable by the cctv that covers most of the city centre.
    As for consultancy, don't rush, I'll have a major fee reduction on Black Friday.


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    #1842
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    richiepurgas wrote: »
    Much of what I've said should be verifiable by the cctv that covers most of the city centre.
    As for consultancy, don't rush, I'll have a major fee reduction on Black Friday.
    Ok, then a ban not required, the city center doesn't have any traffic issues. The CBA fee will be on it's way.


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    #1843
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,124 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Mardyke wrote: »
    Was it this evening the hair salon one who isn't paying her rates was trying to organise a protest against Cork city ?

    Desperately trying to distract from her failing business that isn't paying it's bills. I see she was moaning to Neil that the council need to be promoting more free parking in the city. The traders are completely out of touch with their 1970s model of retail. Cork isn't the small town they want it to be where Jimmy and Mary can pull up outside the door to do their messages.

    Have to laugh at the complaints about traffic on the quays at 5pm. It's rush hour, you're not going to be able to sail around town to your heart's content at 5pm, Pana ban or no Pana ban. Merchant's Quay has always been a traffic hotspot for years and long before Pana ban. Wait until 8,000 office workers show up in their cars at Navigation Square and Horgan's Quay!


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    #1844
    Mardyke
    Registered Users Posts: 576 ✭✭✭Mardyke


    Heading in town there now in the Pajero. Gonna drive down Patrick St. for no real reason and then swing back along the quays (traffic will probably be crazy so I'll have Prendeville on speed dial) to try and park on the pedestrian plaza on Cornmarket St. Dangerous I know, but I don't give a ****.

    Must get a spray tan in Susan Ryan's
    Will get some soakage in John Graces
    Have a decaf in Dukes
    I'll get fitted for a suit then in Tom Murphy's

    I love myself.


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    #1845
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Mardyke wrote: »
    Heading in town there now in the Pajero. Gonna drive down Patrick St. for no real reason and then swing back along the quays (traffic will probably be crazy so I'll have Prendeville on speed dial) to try and park on the pedestrian plaza on Cornmarket St. Dangerous I know, but I don't give a ****.

    Must get a spray tan in Susan Ryan's
    Will get some soakage in John Graces
    Have a decaf in Dukes
    I'll get fitted for a suit then in Tom Murphy's

    I love myself.

    You’ll have your fun and that’s all that matters


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    #1846
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    The main problem with transport in cork is the lack of public transport.i was in munich at the weekend and the public transport was fantastic and cost effective. What stuck me however was the fact that alot of the vehicles looked old but were clean.trams and busses that looked like they were from the 80's were about 50% of the fleet.how come in ireland everything looks shiny and new yet we only have a paltry number of routes and busses to service them? All the cork busses look top of the range with wifi etc but they never ever follow time tables,there's not enough routes and the gaps between busses is huge.
    What happened the old busses that were replaced?


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    #1847
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,544 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    smurgen wrote: »
    The main problem with transport in cork is the lack of public transport.i was in munich at the weekend and the public transport was fantastic and cost effective. What stuck me however was the fact that alot of the vehicles looked old but were clean.trams and busses that looked like they were from the 80's were about 50% of the fleet.how come in ireland everything looks shiny and new yet we only have a paltry number of routes and busses to service them? All the cork busses look top of the range with wifi etc but they never ever follow time tables,there's not enough routes and the gaps between busses is huge.
    What happened the old busses that were replaced?

    Capex vs opex! It's easy (ish) to get money for new stuff but not nearly as easy (and often understandably so) to get money to pay for that stuff to be used on an ongoing basis. How often do you hear of new (for example) hospital wards with no staff to operate them? Same issue.


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    #1848
    ofcork
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ofcork


    Ban starts at 3 I was there today still a few cars on pana and also a couple drove down oliver plunkett st too.


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    #1849
    uptherebels
    Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    macraignil wrote: »
    [/B]
    No. Just trying to point out how they're not all starting at the same time. Thanks for providing some evidence that they do not all start at the same date. Why would demonstrating a gradual increase in numbers be so significant to what I was saying. I was just pointing out that over the period of the footfall figures publicised by the council there are more students about the city over the period they use. Maybe they walk around the city more as they get settled in their course. My point that the figures are skewed by factors outside the car ban is in no way diminished by the increase in footfall from returning students not being precisely gradual over 12 weeks and I think you're just being pedantic.

    It's good to know that you didn't actually check any of the start dates before commenting.

    Again as alot of students are back within a few weeks of each ,trying to account for a 12 week continual increase in numbers as being partly down to student numbers that Increase in a much shorter timeframe is nonsense.


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    #1850
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,124 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    ofcork wrote: »
    Ban starts at 3 I was there today still a few cars on pana and also a couple drove down oliver plunkett st too.

    Always see people chancing their arm by driving down the wrong way on one way streets to access OP Street. Completely ignorant carry on. That coupled with the punters who dump their car wherever they want but reckon by sticking on the magic hazard lights that it's grand.


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    #1851
    macraignil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,396 ✭✭✭macraignil


    uptherebels wrote: »
    It's good to know that you didn't actually check any of the start dates before commenting.

    Again as alot of students are back within a few weeks of each ,trying to account for a 12 week continual increase in numbers as being partly down to student numbers that Increase in a much shorter timeframe is nonsense.


    I don't agree it's nonsense.


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    #1852
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    smurgen wrote: »
    The main problem with transport in cork is the lack of public transport.i was in munich at the weekend and the public transport was fantastic and cost effective. What stuck me however was the fact that alot of the vehicles looked old but were clean.trams and busses that looked like they were from the 80's were about 50% of the fleet.how come in ireland everything looks shiny and new yet we only have a paltry number of routes and busses to service them? All the cork busses look top of the range with wifi etc but they never ever follow time tables,there's not enough routes and the gaps between busses is huge.
    What happened the old busses that were replaced?

    Capex vs opex! It's easy (ish) to get money for new stuff but not nearly as easy (and often understandably so) to get money to pay for that stuff to be used on an ongoing basis. How often do you hear of new (for example) hospital wards with no staff to operate them? Same issue.

    It seems to me like a lazy way quick way to spend budget allocations. Go for the expensive top shelf model. If they could just get functional busses at a lower cost and more if them it would be better.


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    #1853
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,124 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    smurgen wrote: »
    It seems to me like a lazy way quick way to spend budget allocations. Go for the expensive top shelf model. If they could just get functional busses at a lower cost and more if them it would be better.

    No doubt if Bus Eireann were using old buses, even in good condition, people would be moaning about the state of the buses as a reason not to use them.


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    #1854
    Curb Your Enthusiasm
    Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭Curb Your Enthusiasm


    smurgen wrote: »
    The main problem with transport in cork is the lack of public transport.i was in munich at the weekend and the public transport was fantastic and cost effective. What stuck me however was the fact that alot of the vehicles looked old but were clean.trams and busses that looked like they were from the 80's were about 50% of the fleet.how come in ireland everything looks shiny and new yet we only have a paltry number of routes and busses to service them? All the cork busses look top of the range with wifi etc but they never ever follow time tables,there's not enough routes and the gaps between busses is huge.
    What happened the old busses that were replaced?

    Yep. And if they don't drastically improve public transport ASAP, it will come back to bite them in the @ss when all the new developments are up and running. The city simply can't handle the extra cars, and reliable, frequent public transport is a serious need for the very near future.


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    #1855
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,739 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    smurgen wrote: »
    It seems to me like a lazy way quick way to spend budget allocations. Go for the expensive top shelf model. If they could just get functional busses at a lower cost and more if them it would be better.
    namloc1980 wrote: »
    No doubt if Bus Eireann were using old buses, even in good condition, people would be moaning about the state of the buses as a reason not to use them.

    I'm imagining it's probably a similar policy to Dublin Bus where vehicles over 14 years old are sold off (to private operators who get many more miles out of them.. look at the number of early-00's ex-Dublin ALX400s/AVs that are still floating around).

    The argument is that the newer ones are more fuel efficient, environmentally friendly (generally by being not as well built/lighter than their predecessors) and with new features like WiFi and USB charging ports (neither of which are essential IMO)

    Dublin Bus for example are currently selling off their 2005 tri-axle buses despite them having had a relatively easier life than the AV's of that vintage, and the extra capacity they offer. These will be snapped up by the private operators here and in the UK.


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    #1856
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    No doubt if Bus Eireann were using old buses, even in good condition, people would be moaning about the state of the buses as a reason not to use them.

    I strongly disagree,especially if there was more busses.


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    #1857
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I'm imagining it's probably a similar policy to Dublin Bus where vehicles over 14 years old are sold off (to private operators who get many more miles out of them.. look at the number of early-00's ex-Dublin ALX400s/AVs that are still floating around).

    The argument is that the newer ones are more fuel efficient, environmentally friendly (generally by being not as well built/lighter than their predecessors) and with new features like WiFi and USB charging ports (neither of which are essential IMO)

    Dublin Bus for example are currently selling off their 2005 tri-axle buses despite them having had a relatively easier life than the AV's of that vintage, and the extra capacity they offer. These will be snapped up by the private operators here and in the UK.

    WiFi and usb is a waste on such short journeys. We should be purchasing much cheaper models at a much lower cost.who signs off on These budgets.it’s mad.


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    #1858
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Assuming starting from scratch with a bus service , how would you design it? Maybe look at the heavy traffic areas, what are the most common journeys, and build a set of routes and times to allieviate the most pressure at those heavy traffic times...


    Now, look at how it is actually designed. Routes and timetables designed to get drivers back to the central base for union agreed breaktimes in the bus station canteen.


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    #1859
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,124 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    pwurple wrote: »
    Assuming starting from scratch with a bus service , how would you design it? Maybe look at the heavy traffic areas, what are the most common journeys, and build a set of routes and times to allieviate the most pressure at those heavy traffic times...


    Now, look at how it is actually designed. Routes and timetables designed to get drivers back to the central base for union agreed breaktimes in the bus station canteen.

    That's what BusConnects is supposed to do - redesign the system from the ground up. Unfortunately it's turned into a whingefest in Dublin from the NIMBYs and social media warriors. Undoubtedly it'll turn into the same moaning and whinging session when it comes to Cork.


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    #1860
    richiepurgas
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭richiepurgas


    pwurple wrote: »
    Assuming starting from scratch with a bus service , how would you design it? Maybe look at the heavy traffic areas, what are the most common journeys, and build a set of routes and times to allieviate the most pressure at those heavy traffic times...


    Now, look at how it is actually designed. Routes and timetables designed to get drivers back to the central base for union agreed breaktimes in the bus station canteen.

    ? Most of the city services don't go near the bus station in Parnell Place where, I presume, the canteen is.


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    #1861
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,439 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    I'd imagine they mean Capwell


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