So Patrick street is bus only from Thursday 9th August

richiepurgas

How in heavens name could a hairdresser in the South Main street claim that the car ban in Patrick street affects business ?
There's all sorts of players involved here, many who just like to see their names in the media. If this new breakaway group is being headed up by one name being mentioned, then God help them, a guy blowing his own trumpet thanks to links in local radio for years but doing little beyond talking and self promotion.

j8wk2feszrnpao

richiepurgas wrote: »

It was Brendan Behan who said that the first thing on the agenda of any Irish organisation is the split.

Well then he was talking parochial crap. The CBA have been around for some time, so a split was not the first agenda. I just don’t see anything Irish about it whatsoever, esp as plenty of businesses (here and abroad) have been at it throughout time.

namloc1980

richiepurgas wrote: »

How in heavens name could a hairdresser in the South Main street claim that the car ban in Patrick street affects business ?
There's all sorts of players involved here, many who just like to see their names in the media. If this new breakaway group is being headed up by one name being mentioned, then God help them, a guy blowing his own trumpet thanks to links in local radio for years but doing little beyond talking and self promotion.

Absolutely. Her inability to pay rates also points to a failing business model. Nothing to do with the Pana bus lane as her rates arrears date back years. But the Pana bus lane is being used by certain traders as an excuse for their failing businesses. They want to retain an old fashioned view of retail. Times move on and businesses that don't adapt will fail. Simple as. Businesses can no longer dictate to customers and hope to survive - like Idaho man who is very vocal about Pana and supposed decline in business and yet he remains firmly closed 2 days a week!

MrDerp

Local elections are around the corner. I wonder if the business associations are planning to run one of these folks as candidates.

I think we’re seeing the real agenda, which is that the bus lane is being used as a proxy argument for discounting city centre rates against competition in suburban shopping centres. With Douglas and Ballincollig shopping centres coming under city council control in the immediate future, the traders in the city centre are crying poor mouth for a rates reduction.

Maybe they have a point re rates, but i think the bus lane is a red herring.

MrDerp

namloc1980 wrote: »

Absolutely. Her inability to pay rates also points to a failing business model. Nothing to do with the Pana bus lane as her rates arrears date back years. But the Pana bus lane is being used by certain traders as an excuse for their failing businesses. They want to retain an old fashioned view of retail. Times move on and businesses that don't adapt will fail. Simple as. Businesses can no longer dictate to customers and hope to survive - like Idaho man who is very vocal about Pana and supposed decline in business and yet he remains firmly closed 2 days a week!

Pana footfall would be way up if the council would allow chain coffee shops instead of the high end retail field of dreams they’re waiting for.

jackrussel

MrDerp wrote: »

Pana footfall would be way up if the council would allow chain coffee shops instead of the high end retail field of dreams they’re waiting for.

You mean like the ones who flout planning laws & pay little to no tax? Yeah, no thanks.

Cherry_Cola

namloc1980 wrote: »

Absolutely. Her inability to pay rates also points to a failing business model. Nothing to do with the Pana bus lane as her rates arrears date back years. But the Pana bus lane is being used by certain traders as an excuse for their failing businesses. They want to retain an old fashioned view of retail. Times move on and businesses that don't adapt will fail. Simple as. Businesses can no longer dictate to customers and hope to survive - like Idaho man who is very vocal about Pana and supposed decline in business and yet he remains firmly closed 2 days a week!

Not to mention the increase in VAT for her business coming in January.

MrDerp

jackrussel wrote: »

You mean like the ones who flout planning laws & pay little to no tax? Yeah, no thanks.

Yeah I mean them, and the cafe Nero denied planning across the road, the ones that teenagers and young people are more likely to frequent and meet their friends in town instead of in Mahon point. That kids want their parents to go to for a quick drink, and that provide a space for hanging out in town.

When that Starbucks was open on Patrick st there was life and buskers outside and now it’s back to being another boarded up store beside a dead shopping centre with an uncertain future. If you bring people to a part of town, the clothes shopping will follow.

Tax is another issue, and shouldn’t be a factor in planning

namloc1980

jackrussel wrote: »

You mean like the ones who flout planning laws & pay little to no tax? Yeah, no thanks.

Planning laws must be upheld but another empty unit on Patrick Street is in nobody's interest.

Magnatu

This is going in unanticipated directions.
Car ban was brought back in August on understanding that it would be a ban in name only.
There would be minimal signage, cars could continue to use bus lane on Washington Street to turn onto Patrick Street and no fines for breaking the law would be issued by gardai. Council could claim that ban was in force and CBA would reluctantly surrort it but it would be a farce and a sham. And this is the way it is. If you go down to Patrick Street today it will be full of private cars driving through street and parking on loading bays.

However what they didn't anticipate is that rogue traders would use the nominal ban as an excuse to break from the party line.

And the ironic thing is that if there is a move to get rid of the ban there will be very little opposition.
Those in favour of stopping cars driving through the city center won't really care about defending a ban that is not a ban anyway. Ending it will make little practical difference

Italix

I think people being happy about Starbucks closing that shop is very short sighted.
As said above it brought something extra to the area, if people want coffee from there how bad, people that enjoy their coffee will still go to the excellent selection of independent coffee shops we have.
The planning rules for Patrick Street need to be relaxed, they should encourage some large chain restaurants and cafes spaced out along the whole length of the street.

timmyjimmy

Was talking to a mate of mine who works in Cork Coffee Roasters in the middle town and he said traffic ban has had absolutely no effect on their trade. A small, independent coffee who's doing just fine while the ban is going on. Just goes to show, if you've the right business model, you'll be fine. If not, you'll just moan about it and not do anything to boost your trade.

EnzoScifo

richiepurgas wrote: »

How in heavens name could a hairdresser in the South Main street claim that the car ban in Patrick street affects business ?
There's all sorts of players involved here, many who just like to see their names in the media. If this new breakaway group is being headed up by one name being mentioned, then God help them, a guy blowing his own trumpet thanks to links in local radio for years but doing little beyond talking and self promotion.

Her Salon has never had set down or any kind of parking outside of it. Before the contra flow bike lane on South Main Street there were double yellow lines, same as on the washington street side.

ofcork

Was in penneys and keanes and a few more shops yesterday all pretty busy ban or not.

Mardyke

EnzoScifo wrote: »

Her Salon has never had set down or any kind of parking outside of it. Before the contra flow bike lane on South Main Street there were double yellow lines, same as on the washington street side.

The media need to have a look at themselves giving this person or her non-story any mention. She is basically dodging taxes for years and now looking for someone else to blame? Whether the taxes are fair is another debate.

mean gene

richiepurgas wrote: »

How in heavens name could a hairdresser in the South Main street claim that the car ban in Patrick street affects business ?
There's all sorts of players involved here, many who just like to see their names in the media. If this new breakaway group is being headed up by one name being mentioned, then God help them, a guy blowing his own trumpet thanks to links in local radio for years but doing little beyond talking and self promotion.

Her customers are elderly and need cars to get in and out

mean gene

Was on pana yesterday cars again going through as were trucks during the ban

EnzoScifo

mean gene wrote: »

Her customers are elderly and need cars to get in and out

Her salon has never had any on street parking or set down areas adjacent to the premises. In fact the only way to get to her salon is by driving AWAY from Patrick St

mean gene

EnzoScifo wrote: »

Her salon has never had any on street parking or set down areas adjacent to the premises. In fact the only way to get to her salon is by driving AWAY from Patrick St

Just saying what she said on the radio during the week :pac:

Cork Boy 53

mean gene wrote: »

Just saying what she said on the radio during the week :pac:

And you believe everything she said was the truth?

Harika

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

And you believe everything she said was the truth?

During the first episode of the car ban, traffic jams in Mallow were linked to the car ban in St Patrick Street.
No correlation was unused

Mardyke

What I'm learning from this car ban is ...

- there are lots of people running businesses in Cork city centre that are probably not clever enough to succeed in modern day retail

- the Cork media are quite happy to entertain the vocal minority for the sake of a few likes

magentur

The assumption here as well is that only retail sales contribute to a vibrant and attractive city centre. No conception of an urban space that would have any other function other than to facilitate shopping. And if clogging up the city centre with cars contributes to people shopping more then this is what is desirable.

pwurple

Mardyke wrote: »

- there are lots of people running businesses in Cork city centre that are probably not clever enough to succeed in modern day retail

If you need a high IQ to run a tiny shop these days, I'd be questioning why on earth we have made it so complicated and difficult for people.

There should be no reason whatsoever that joe-average can't run a simple shop.

EdgeCase

Bricks and mortar retail all over the developed world is suffering due to the switch to online. I mean, if most people are looking for some specialist product, they often just default to Amazon rather than even starting to look around town to see what's available.

One thing the City Council, CBA and retailers could do is club-together to ensure the they have maximum online presence to ensure that when someone looks up something like "guitar strings" on the internet in Cork that they get some references immediately to the fact that guitar shops exist in the city centre and where they are. It doesn't have to be full online e-tailing, but they do need to ensure that there's something there to tell consumers that various businesses exist when they're Googling around.

Combine that with good, consistent, city-wide online and offline marketing and then maybe you might drive more footfall.

All I can see is endless negative coverage of the city centre being driven by various people ranting about car parking, access and traffic jams and to be quite honest, having gone in to town during the hours when the traffic restrictions are in place, I am not experiencing any issues at all.

I would agree, with Susan Ryan that there needs to be much more provision of accessible parking on every street and some kind of tolerance of set-down. For example, I would think it would be reasonable for people with disabled permits to be able to access Patrick's Street and be able to set down to allow people in/out of cars or use any available dibbled parking.

However, that shouldn't undermine the ability to make the city centre more pedestrian friendly.

They also need to come up with some systems to enhance public transport, for example home-delivery services for larger items could be coordinated and resources pooled. You could easily have some kind of a deal with one or more of the taxi companies and the city centre traders to ensure that people can easily either get picked up at stores with their shopping, or have the shopping sent home without them. This could be done outside peak times too.

There are loads of things you could do to make the city centre a really great place to shop.

I mean, could we also look at something like park and ride mobility scooters for the disabled? Shopping centres do this, so I can't see why a pedestrianised city centre couldn't.

Also, I genuinely find it's often easier to shop in town than in Mahon Point at busy times as the traffic in own flows WAY better than it does in some of those out of town centres. Even at the weekend peak shopping times, I find town much more pleasant.

flexcon

Magnatu wrote: »

If you go down to Patrick Street today it will be full of private cars driving through street and parking on loading bays.

Just quoting for context - not directed at you personally.

And this is where it gets unclear. So Patrick street is "Full" of private cars (Not just a "few" but "full") yet...............trade is down.

There are so many factors at play right now.

Magnatu

flexcon wrote: »

And this is where it gets unclear. So Patrick street is "Full" of private cars (Not just a "few" but "full") yet...............trade is down.

Post was on Saturday. I submit that the assestion that Patrick Street was full of cars last weekend during the hours that ban was in force is accurate enough.

flexcon

Magnatu wrote: »

Post was on Saturday. I submit that the assestion that Patrick Street was full of cars last weekend during the hours that ban was in force is accurate enough.

Ok, So where do you stand on the trade being down?Do you believe trade is down?

Are the number of cars you say still "less" than before the ban?

If yes above, are we then saying we think those that are obeying the ban are the shoppers, but those that are still driving through are not?

Let's work through these.

Cherry_Cola

EdgeCase wrote: »

Bricks and mortar retail all over the developed world is suffering due to the switch to online. I mean, if most people are looking for some specialist product, they often just default to Amazon rather than even starting to look around town to see what's available.

One thing the City Council, CBA and retailers could do is club-together to ensure the they have maximum online presence to ensure that when someone looks up something like "guitar strings" on the internet in Cork that they get some references immediately to the fact that guitar shops exist in the city centre and where they are. It doesn't have to be full online e-tailing, but they do need to ensure that there's something there to tell consumers that various businesses exist when they're Googling around.

Combine that with good, consistent, city-wide online and offline marketing and then maybe you might drive more footfall.

All I can see is endless negative coverage of the city centre being driven by various people ranting about car parking, access and traffic jams and to be quite honest, having gone in to town during the hours when the traffic restrictions are in place, I am not experiencing any issues at all.

I would agree, with Susan Ryan that there needs to be much more provision of accessible parking on every street and some kind of tolerance of set-down. For example, I would think it would be reasonable for people with disabled permits to be able to access Patrick's Street and be able to set down to allow people in/out of cars or use any available dibbled parking.

However, that shouldn't undermine the ability to make the city centre more pedestrian friendly.

They also need to come up with some systems to enhance public transport, for example home-delivery services for larger items could be coordinated and resources pooled. You could easily have some kind of a deal with one or more of the taxi companies and the city centre traders to ensure that people can easily either get picked up at stores with their shopping, or have the shopping sent home without them. This could be done outside peak times too.

There are loads of things you could do to make the city centre a really great place to shop.

I mean, could we also look at something like park and ride mobility scooters for the disabled? Shopping centres do this, so I can't see why a pedestrianised city centre couldn't.

Also, I genuinely find it's often easier to shop in town than in Mahon Point at busy times as the traffic in own flows WAY better than it does in some of those out of town centres. Even at the weekend peak shopping times, I find town much more pleasant.

Guitar shops unfortunately were completely gutted with the likes of Thomann. Pro Musica is the only place in the city now for anything musical related really.

TheChizler

New figures released by the council. Footfall is up since August definitely but there's no figures from previous years to compare it to unfortunately. Car park use us marginally up from previous years.

https://amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/free-late-night-parking-in-bid-to-secure-cork-car-ban-884993.html