Poppy

indioblack · 19-10-2018 12:33pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Not OK at all. Unfortunately, there was an armed conflict at the time.

Are YOU saying it's OK to support harassment, torture and murder when it's committed by the British army, but not by Republicans?

Your post suggests that this behaviour applies to Republicans as well as the BA. You have already indicated your support for Republicans, if I understood an earlier post correctly. If that is so, then you support this behaviour.

murpho999 · 19-10-2018 12:41pm

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

It’s not so much their aims that I have a problem with. It’s their barbaric methods.

I'm not supporting them but it's all about perception.

The actions of the Britsh in NI in the 70s till the 90s was perceived as barbaric by many.

If you felt that way then you would have felt that the IRA were fighting for your cause at the time.

Ragnar Lothbrok · 19-10-2018 12:52pm

indioblack wrote: »

Your post suggests that this behaviour applies to Republicans as well as the BA. You have already indicated your support for Republicans, if I understood an earlier post correctly. If that is so, then you support this behaviour.

I am not deluded enough to believe that every single act carried out by the IRA is easy to defend, when taken in isolation. BOTH sides in any armed conflict, by its very nature, commit acts that would be considered barbaric in peace time.

I would never, ever condemn the IRA. However, I would not support the same actions being taken by individuals today as the situation has changed, thanks to the Peace Process.

19-10-2018 12:57pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Not OK at all. Unfortunately, there was an armed conflict at the time.

Are YOU saying it's OK to support harassment, torture and murder when it's committed by the British army, but not by Republicans?

neither are ok. I am simply stating that if you are as much against the poppy for the reasons you claim, it is somewhat hypocritical to then wear the Lilly.

as i said about a million posts ago, with both symbols you take the rough with the smooth.

Feisar · 19-10-2018 1:43pm

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

It’s not so much their aims that I have a problem with. It’s their barbaric methods.

Accepted. However it was the perception side of things i was commenting on, not the right or wrong of it.

Lady Spangles · 19-10-2018 1:58pm

Apologies, I'm referring back to OP rather than wading in on the current direction of the thread.

But, is the poppy even an issue in Ireland? Why would anyone in Ireland even want to consider wearing one? Yes, I know Irishmen fought in WWII. But so did a lot of other non-British nationals (on the allied side) and they don't have all this poppy business going on. I mean, it's in aid of the British Legion so why would they?

Then, I'm an actual Brit who's never bothered with poppies either (same goes for my family, tbh). If it was just about the two world wars, then perhaps I'd feel differently. But it's not. It's every war, every conflict and every armed invasion. So no. The white poppy seems like a much better idea.

riffmongous · 19-10-2018 2:06pm

Folkstonian wrote: »

Could somebody explain to me why the poppy causes such heated debate on this forum?

I ask because I don’t actually remember seeing a single person either wearing or selling the poppy in Dublin last autumn. Admittedly I wasn’t keeping an eye out for them but being English I’m sure I’d have noticed regardless.

I completely understand and sympathise with the historic sensitivities, but it’s only an issue here for the people that want it to be one.

FWIW when I’m in London I gladly donate to the RBL and wear the poppy because it’s got personal meaning to me, but I wouldn’t do so over here because I wouldn’t want to upset or offend anyone who sees it in a negative light

Because support for the British military is still a very relevant issue, when it looks more and more likely they are going to push for no one to be charged for Bloody Sunday in the next months, as if the original cover up wasn't bad enough now they are going to show their contempt for the Irish people once again

The Rape of Lucretia · 19-10-2018 2:15pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Because support for the British military is still a very relevant issue, when it looks more and more likely they are going to push for no one to be charged for Bloody Sunday in the next months, as if the original cover up wasn't bad enough now they are going to show their contempt for the Irish people once again

War is messy. Terrorism even more so. As they said in Spinal Tap, "Best just leave it, you know, unsolved". The GFA drew a veil over the mistakes of both sides, so best just accepted, and move on.

Snickers Man · 19-10-2018 4:04pm

Wonder will the Loyal Orange Lodges of Dublin and Wicklow be placing a poppy wreath on Mount St Bridge again this year like they have for the last few years.

In 2015 they snuck in at the crack of dawn and stuck a wreath on the bridge where a fierce battle with many casualties took place in 1916.
They then described it thus on their Facebook page

Dublin Orange men assemble on Mount Street Bridge in an act of remembrance to those who paid the ultimate supreme sacrifice in putting down the 1916 Rebellion. A rebellion which was aimed at replacing constitutional government with tyrannical government and civic peace and harmony with rape and murder of life and property. We like to thank the Belfast Telegraph for covering the event and the photography student from UCD. In addition, we thank those representatives from the "Reform Group" who also attended and the many fellow Dublin citizen who engaged us with voices of support. Going forward; Dublin orange men will be holding an annual act of remembrance on the bridge.

Conciliatory language, huh? "Tyrannical" "rape and murder of life and property" etc etc

They also gave notice that they would be doing it on an annual basis.

Just saying.

timthumbni · 19-10-2018 4:50pm

You could set your watch every year by the poppy thread mostly populated by armchair provos who have never set foot in Norn Iron. I will be wearing mine but then again I live in NI. I would think it’s a very small number who actually wear one down Mexico way. But where there’s a rant there’s a way I suppose.

timthumbni · 19-10-2018 4:54pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

Wonder will the Loyal Orange Lodges of Dublin and Wicklow be placing a poppy wreath on Mount St Bridge again this year like they have for the last few years.

In 2015 they snuck in at the crack of dawn and stuck a wreath on the bridge where a fierce battle with many casualties took place in 1916.
They then described it thus on their Facebook page

Dublin Orange men assemble on Mount Street Bridge in an act of remembrance to those who paid the ultimate supreme sacrifice in putting down the 1916 Rebellion. A rebellion which was aimed at replacing constitutional government with tyrannical government and civic peace and harmony with rape and murder of life and property. We like to thank the Belfast Telegraph for covering the event and the photography student from UCD. In addition, we thank those representatives from the "Reform Group" who also attended and the many fellow Dublin citizen who engaged us with voices of support. Going forward; Dublin orange men will be holding an annual act of remembrance on the bridge.

Conciliatory language, huh? "Tyrannical" "rape and murder of life and property" etc etc

They also gave notice that they would be doing it on an annual basis.

Just saying.

You should get up off your arse and do a few signs then mate shouldn’t you? Something along the lines of Down with this sort of thing I suppose.....

Snickers Man · 19-10-2018 4:55pm

timthumbni wrote: »

You should get up off your arse and do a few signs then mate shouldn’t you? Something along the lines of Down with this sort of thing I suppose.....

What a good idea!

I fancy this one myself.

riffmongous · 19-10-2018 5:19pm

timthumbni wrote: »

You could set your watch every year by the poppy thread mostly populated by armchair provos who have never set foot in Norn Iron. I will be wearing mine but then again I live in NI. I would think it’s a very small number who actually wear one down Mexico way. But where there’s a rant there’s a way I suppose.

Funny thing is, their beloved British government would have had people like them shot if the roles were reversed

19-10-2018 5:41pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

What a good idea!

I fancy this one myself.

Someone from D4 posting Celtic pictures?

Totes morto for you

klaaaz · 19-10-2018 5:44pm

So the Orange Order laying a poppy wreath in Dublin for the occupying British forces(North King street massacre comes to mind) says it all really, the poppy is a loyalist hate symbol here in Ireland.

Sunny Disposition · 19-10-2018 7:11pm

timthumbni wrote: »

You could set your watch every year by the poppy thread mostly populated by armchair provos who have never set foot in Norn Iron. I will be wearing mine but then again I live in NI. I would think it’s a very small number who actually wear one down Mexico way. But where there’s a rant there’s a way I suppose.

Genuinely interested, would the money from the poppies going to former British soldiers, such as the guys who murdered Aidan McAnespie and the innocent people in Ballymurphy, not be a good enough reason not to buy one?

Bricriu · 19-10-2018 7:21pm

Patww79 wrote: »

I can see them getting trendier here with the "oooh look how modern and progressive I am" attitude that's infesting the country these days.

Absolutely true, and another result of our being colonised.

Liadh Ní Riada, before she talked about wearing the Poppy on 'Clare Byrne Live', talked about being modern and mature. God, this mental malaise has even infected Republicans.

So 'modern and mature' is commemorating an army that caused so much death, destruction and grief in this country over the centuries, as well as in countless other countries, and is still doing so in the Middle East and in Afghanistan.

Stuff your Poppy.

BalcombeSt4 · 19-10-2018 7:48pm

Patww79 wrote: »

I can see them getting trendier here with the "oooh look how modern and progressive I am" attitude that's infesting the country these days.

Wait, so you are saying then that people who don't wear them are conservative?

Anyway I don't care about people wearing symbols to remember Irish people who died in WW1, they should be remembered because they were massacred in the rush of imperial madness for nothing.

But I don't know how or why any Irish person would want to wear a symbol that celebrates an army who murdered & massacred hundreds of Irish people in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Derry, Belfast, Armagh etc... and burned down Balbriggan & Cork city & many other places just in the last century alone.
It would be like a Jewish or Russian person wearing a Swastika or an Armenian wearing a Young Turk symbol.

BalcombeSt4 · 19-10-2018 7:51pm

klaaaz wrote: »

So the Orange Order laying a poppy wreath in Dublin for the occupying British forces(North King street massacre comes to mind) says it all really, the poppy is a loyalist hate symbol here in Ireland.

Or the Croke Park massacre on Bloody Sunday 1920 or a series of bombings from 1972 - 1975 that killed over 30 people.

19-10-2018 7:51pm

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

Wait, so you are saying then that people who don't wear them are conservative?

Anyway I don't care about people wearing symbols to remember Irish people who died in WW1, they should be remembered because they were massacred in the rush of imperial madness for nothing.

But I don't know how or why any Irish person would want to wear a symbol that celebrates an army who murdered & massacred hundreds of Irish people in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Derry, Belfast, Armagh etc... and burned down Balbriggan & Cork city & many other places just in the last century alone.
It would be like a Jewish or Russian person wearing a Swastika or an Armenian wearing a Young Turk symbol.

From a poster called Balcombe St4?

****ing hell.

OldMrBrennan83 · 19-10-2018 7:52pm

klaaaz wrote: »

So the Orange Order laying a poppy wreath in Dublin for the occupying British forces(North King street massacre comes to mind) says it all really, the poppy is a loyalist hate symbol here in Ireland.

I hope someone has promptly burnt/pissed on it.

RustyNut · 19-10-2018 7:54pm

Aegir wrote: »

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

Wait, so you are saying then that people who don't wear them are conservative?

Anyway I don't care about people wearing symbols to remember Irish people who died in WW1, they should be remembered because they were massacred in the rush of imperial madness for nothing.

But I don't know how or why any Irish person would want to wear a symbol that celebrates an army who murdered & massacred hundreds of Irish people in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Derry, Belfast, Armagh etc... and burned down Balbriggan & Cork city & many other places just in the last century alone.
It would be like a Jewish or Russian person wearing a Swastika or an Armenian wearing a Young Turk symbol.

From a poster called Balcombe St4?

****ing hell.

If you can't attack the post?

19-10-2018 7:57pm

RustyNut wrote: »

If you can't attack the post?

So you have no issue with a poster naming themselves after cold blooded murdering scum bags?

Ok.

RustyNut · 19-10-2018 8:05pm

Aegir wrote: »

RustyNut wrote: »

If you can't attack the post?

So you have no issue with a poster naming themselves after cold blooded murdering scum bags?

Ok.

Someone could call themselves Mrs thatcher for all I care, it what they say that counts.

The Rape of Lucretia · 19-10-2018 8:06pm

More a case of behaving as a mature country, putting aside the hate and conflicts of the past, and through our shared history, commemorate those who made the ultimate sacrifice.
The poppy is a great symbol of this progress in these more enlightened and cooperative times.

19-10-2018 8:11pm

RustyNut wrote: »

Someone could call themselves Mrs thatcher for all I care, it what they say that counts.

Yep, I guessed as much.

BalcombeSt4 · 19-10-2018 8:37pm

Aegir wrote: »

From a poster called Balcombe St4?

****ing hell.

Great debating skills used there.

Okay, let me put it this way, it would be like someone from central Birmingham or Hyde Park wearing a "Provo Undefeated Army" gaudy looking t-shirt.
Or somebody from Bombay Street (the estate burned down by loyalists in Belfast during the 1969 pogrom) wearing a Bowler Hat & Orange Sash.

Zebra3 · 19-10-2018 8:46pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

More a case of behaving as a mature country, putting aside the hate and conflicts of the past, and through our shared history, commemorate those who made the ultimate sacrifice.
The poppy is a great symbol of this progress in these more enlightened and cooperative times.

Occupation does not equal shared history.

Sorry to interrupt your propaganda spiel.

Snickers Man · 19-10-2018 8:48pm

Aegir wrote: »

Someone from D4 posting Celtic pictures?

Totes morto for you

Ah gerrup the yard ya bollix!!!

What do you know about Dublin 4, anyway?

Not a lot, it would seem.

19-10-2018 8:55pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

Ah gerrup the yard ya bollix!!!

What do you know about Dublin 4, anyway?

Not a lot, it would seem.

I live there.

, only joking

Poppy

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