Christmas bonus for welfare recipients not only restored but increased

Yer Da sells Avon · 05-10-2018 01:06PM

ELM327 wrote: »

The problem comes when people confuse years of hard graft with "good fortune"

Take it from someone who was on the dole and now isn't: I am infinitely more fortunate now than I was then.

PlaneSpeeking · 05-10-2018 01:09PM

ELM327 wrote: »

The problem comes when people confuse years of hard graft with "good fortune"

Have often been told "you're lucky you've been in work for 30 years".

Was it Gary Player who said "the harder I work, the luckier I seem to get" ?

Graft my friends, it's the only way.

turbbo · 05-10-2018 01:12PM

Reality check needed for the Irish along with most of Europe:

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/how-european-welfare-discourages-work

Yer Da sells Avon · 05-10-2018 01:14PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Have often been told "you're lucky you've been in work for 30 years".

Was it Gary Player who said "the harder I work, the luckier I seem to get" ?

Graft my friends, it's the only way.

You're lucky to have a job to work hard in. Certainly luckier than people who are struggling to find one.

the_syco · 05-10-2018 01:14PM

janmaree wrote: »

I am now in my 60s after working full-time for most of my adult life. I paid all my taxes, contributions, levies, insurances etc., I paid my own doctor and dentist charges, perhaps stupidly but that's me. My workload was so extreme that I took few holidays and haven't had one of any kind for nearly two decades.

The hatred is aimed at those who took the dole upon doing their Leaving Cert, and not done any work legally since.

ELM327 · 05-10-2018 01:17PM

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

You're lucky to have a job to work hard in. Certainly luckier than people who are struggling to find one.

Lucky to have education? Lucky to spend hours studying and prepping for each interview? Lucky to put effort into my appearance on the day and to show up on time and perform?
Lucky enough to then work hard? Lucky enough to prove demonstrably to the company my worth and why I should be retained, and then promoted etc?

It's not luck, it's graft.

turbbo · 05-10-2018 01:21PM

It's an outrageous concept that this xmas bonus thing even exists - it really rubs working people up the wrong way. It is another reason to look for somebody else in gov. instead of the populists we have at the moment.

PlaneSpeeking · 05-10-2018 01:23PM

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

You're lucky to have a job to work hard in. Certainly luckier than people who are struggling to find one.

And yet I worked all manner of ****e as a young'un to build up skills and get a better job.

I left the town I grew up to get my current job 11 years ago. I have a long commute. It's just what has to be done.

No, it's not luck. It's the result of hard work and sacrifice.

turbbo · 05-10-2018 01:24PM

Yes, luck absolutely plays a part in it. That doesn't take away from the hard work, but putting in the work doesn't mean there isn't luck involved either.

Ever hear "if you're not in you can't win?" Luck has a part to play but it's not 100% luck that gets people a job? You still have to participate in the game to get that job. The more participation the higher chance you win.

turbbo · 05-10-2018 01:27PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Some working people, not all of us have an issue with it.

As for the government, if you think the current lot are populists, I have some bad news for you about the alternatives :pac:

Totally fine - wish the tax collector gave me the chance to opt in or out of contributing to it - then we'd see how many workers were behind it as a concept.

turbbo · 05-10-2018 01:30PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Of course it's not 100%. I even said in the next sentence that doesn't take away from the hard work

It's all relative this "hard work" - what we could have is a measure of this hard work? - Oh yeah that already exists it's called a qualifications and getting interviews and then jobs and then moving jobs for better pay to work even harder. :rolleyes:

turbbo · 05-10-2018 01:32PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

If we could opt out of whatever taxes we like the country would get in some mess fairly quickly. Suppose there's a solid enough argument it's in enough of a mess with the way things are now anyway though

It would be interesting to see the amount of workers that would opt in though?

El_Duderino 09 · 05-10-2018 01:33PM

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/socialprotection/2018/

As expected, pensions are by far the biggest spend in social welfare. It’s the same in the uk.

The uk spends 100bn on pensions and 2bn on Jobseeker’s Allowance. But going by all the whinging, pissing and moaning about food scrounges, you’d swear they were the other way around.

05-10-2018 01:34PM

Sure isn't it a great country we live in. A bonus for not having a job!

05-10-2018 01:34PM

Sure isn't it a great country we live in. A bonus for not having a job!

ELM327 · 05-10-2018 01:34PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Not everyone is lucky enough to be well educated.

Education is not luck, it's work ethic. A foreign notion for those just getting out of the scratcher now to collect the dole.

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Not everyone who spends hours preparing for an interview and puts effort into their appearance is successful.

Not for every interview, but they will be successful eventually.

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Not everyone who works hard reaps the rewards - some people get shafted no matter how much work they put in.

If you work hard you will reap the rewards.
Unfortunately in this country if you do nothing and do it a lot you also reap the rewards

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Yes, luck absolutely plays a part in it. That doesn't take away from the hard work, but putting in the work doesn't mean there isn't luck involved either.

Bull.

ELM327 · 05-10-2018 01:34PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/socialprotection/2018/

As expected, pensions are by far the biggest spend in social welfare. It’s the same in the uk.

The uk spends 100bn on pensions and 2bn on Jobseeker’s Allowance. But going by all the whinging, pissing and moaning about food scrounges, you’d swear they were the other way around.

Any stats for the expenditure before their benefit cap?

turbbo · 05-10-2018 01:37PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Some people do all that and still fall on hard times though, through no fault of their own. I don't see how that's a remotely controversial point.

It's not controversial at all it's the mainstream - that's what populism is.
Falling on hard times is not what a lifetime of dole is. I know plenty of people that fell on hard times and didn't qualify for dole. Also I really think Xmas bonus sends out a bad message to young people - "if you don't work you'll be rewarded for it." That is not the case - in fact if you do work - you will be rewarded for it.

janmaree · 05-10-2018 01:37PM

ELM327 wrote: »

No it doesn't
You don't fit the "generalising" at all - and it's a stretch to me to even consider that that could be your genuine reading of the thread.

Do you really think that I'm the only one in receipt of benefits who feels swept up in the "tarring with the same brush" or generalising as I put it? I read ALL the posts and ALL the quotes. I'm not stupid and neither are those like me. I suspect that some may feel a little guilty at the impression their words can give and naturally, attack becomes the greatest defence. I wasn't criticising anyone, I just think that this belittling talk of people who can no longer manage the way they would like to is cruel, shortsighted and honestly, judgmental. I was in work long enough to appreciate the benefits of employment and the opportunity it gave me to contribute. That's what matters, to me anyway.

ELM327 · 05-10-2018 01:39PM

janmaree wrote: »

Do you really think that I'm the only one in receipt of benefits who feels swept up in the "tarring with the same brush" or generalising as I put it? I read ALL the posts and ALL the quotes. I'm not stupid and neither are those like me. I suspect that some may feel a little guilty at the impression their words can give and naturally, attack becomes the greatest defence. I wasn't criticising anyone, I just think that this belittling talk of people who can no longer manage the way they would like to is cruel, shortsighted and honestly, judgmental. I was in work long enough to appreciate the benefits of employment and the opportunity it gave me to contribute. That's what matters, to me anyway.

Please quote even one post that is that, and is not belittling the moochers like Cash and her ilk who never worked a day in their lives.

Big difference.

Yer Da sells Avon · 05-10-2018 01:39PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Lucky to have education? Lucky to spend hours studying and prepping for each interview? Lucky to put effort into my appearance on the day and to show up on time and perform?
Lucky enough to then work hard? Lucky enough to prove demonstrably to the company my worth and why I should be retained, and then promoted etc?

It's not luck, it's graft.

So there was no element of luck whatsoever then? You did it all by yourself? Aren't you great. If the company you work for goes bust, and you find yourself signing on the dole some day, struggling to find another job, I suppose it'll all be your own fault?

Tbh, that kind of 'sure amn't I great' bullshit is even more puke-inducing than the martyrdom that inspires these threads. Even if we pretend that it was solely your own inherent greatness that got you employment and kept you in it, you are still in a better and more enviable position than someone who is struggling to find work.

Me - I may well have got my job because I was well prepared for the interview and the recruiters liked the cut of my jib or whatever, and I'll (hopefully) hold onto it because I do it well. Tbh, I'm still at the stage where I'm enjoying not being unemployed so much that it almost doesn't feel like 'work'. I hope that lasts, and I don't turn into the sort of miserable prick who feels the need to sneer at those less fortunate. And yes, there was so much luck involved in getting the job... stumbling across the job advert in the first place (it wasn't in the usual places)... not rescheduling the interview when I realised that it clashed with a pointless social welfare appointment... not becoming completely dysfunctional and unemployable as a result of the whole job-seeking process smashing my confidence, making me physically ill and mentally drained... I mean, I could go on...

turbbo · 05-10-2018 01:43PM

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

So there was no element of luck whatsoever then? You did it all by yourself? Aren't you great. If the company you work for goes bust, and you find yourself signing on the dole some day, struggling to find another job, I suppose it'll all be your own fault?

Tbh, that kind of 'sure amn't I great' bullshit is even more puke-inducing than the martyrdom that inspires these threads. Even if we pretend that it was solely your own inherent greatness that got you employment and kept you in it, you are still in a better and more enviable position than someone who is struggling to find work.

Me - I may well have got my job because I was well prepared for the interview and the recruiters liked the cut of my jib or whatever, and I'll (hopefully) hold onto it because I do it well. Tbh, I'm still at the stage where I'm enjoying not being unemployed so much that it almost doesn't feel like 'work'. I hope that lasts, and I don't turn into the sort of miserable prick who feels the need to sneer at those less fortunate. And yes, there was so much luck involved in getting the job... stumbling across the job advert in the first place (it wasn't in the usual places)... not rescheduling the interview when I realised that it clashed with a pointless social welfare appointment... not becoming completely dysfunctional and unemployable as a result of the whole job-seeking process smashing my confidence, making me physically ill and mentally drained... I mean, I could go on...

Is this thread not specifically about the Xmas bonus part of social welfare - not questioning social welfare itself? I think there are a lot of posters missing the point here.

PlaneSpeeking · 05-10-2018 01:43PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Your own posts keep mentioning how hard work gets rewarded. How exactly do you think that comes across to people who are struggling through no fault of their own? The obvious implication is that those that are struggling haven't worked hard enough.

You're taking apples and trying to make orange juice there.

Not a comparison.

turbbo · 05-10-2018 01:44PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Your own posts keep mentioning how hard work gets rewarded. How exactly do you think that comes across to people who are struggling through no fault of their own? The obvious implication is that those that are struggling haven't worked hard enough.

Penny finally drops???

El_Duderino 09 · 05-10-2018 01:44PM

ELM327 wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/socialprotection/2018/

As expected, pensions are by far the biggest spend in social welfare. It’s the same in the uk.

The uk spends 100bn on pensions and 2bn on Jobseeker’s Allowance. But going by all the whinging, pissing and moaning about food scrounges, you’d swear they were the other way around.

Any stats for the expenditure before their benefit cap?

Try looking it up. What would it show?

ELM327 · 05-10-2018 01:45PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Your own posts keep mentioning how hard work gets rewarded. How exactly do you think that comes across to people who are struggling through no fault of their own? The obvious implication is that those that are struggling haven't worked hard enough.

The poster I responded to had worked for years and fallen on hard times, I asked that poster for an example of any post where anyone addressed that, and not wasters, on this thread.
Your post is not relevant thanks.

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

So there was no element of luck whatsoever then? You did it all by yourself? Aren't you great. If the company you work for goes bust, and you find yourself signing on the dole some day, struggling to find another job, I suppose it'll all be your own fault?

Tbh, that kind of 'sure amn't I great' bullshit is even more puke-inducing than the martyrdom that inspires these threads. Even if we pretend that it was solely your own inherent greatness that got you employment and kept you in it, you are still in a better and more enviable position than someone who is struggling to find work.

Me - I may well have got my job because I was well prepared for the interview and the recruiters liked the cut of my jib or whatever, and I'll (hopefully) hold onto it because I do it well. Tbh, I'm still at the stage where I'm enjoying not being unemployed so much that it almost doesn't feel like 'work'. I hope that lasts, and I don't turn into the sort of miserable prick who feels the need to sneer at those less fortunate. And yes, there was so much luck involved in getting the job... stumbling across the job advert in the first place (it wasn't in the usual places)... not rescheduling the interview when I realised that it clashed with a pointless social welfare appointment... not becoming completely dysfunctional and unemployable as a result of the whole job-seeking process smashing my confidence, making me physically ill and mentally drained... I mean, I could go on...

If I lose my job because the company goes bust, or made redundant, I'll get another job. Same as I got this one when I was made redundant before. Except you gain more skills and experience with each job you have. Each job relevant to your skillset anyway.

Education is free to tertiary level in this country.

Ace2007 · 05-10-2018 01:45PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

What about those who can't afford a good education?

You don't need to be rich to get a good education, especially in Ireland.
If you want something bad enough you will work to get it, put the long hours in work and studying.

ELM327 · 05-10-2018 01:45PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Try looking it up. What would it show?

You introduced the statistic, I was tempering your statistic with the (accurate) notice that the deviation to lower SW bills was due to the benefit cap which we do not have here.

Hitman3000 · 05-10-2018 01:48PM

It's great to see the bonus up to a 100 per cent again. Christmas is expensive.

Samsgirl · 05-10-2018 01:48PM

janmaree wrote: »

Do you really think that I'm the only one in receipt of benefits who feels swept up in the "tarring with the same brush" or generalising as I put it? I read ALL the posts and ALL the quotes. I'm not stupid and neither are those like me. I suspect that some may feel a little guilty at the impression their words can give and naturally, attack becomes the greatest defence. I wasn't criticising anyone, I just think that this belittling talk of people who can no longer manage the way they would like to is cruel, shortsighted and honestly, judgmental. I was in work long enough to appreciate the benefits of employment and the opportunity it gave me to contribute. That's what matters, to me anyway.

I don't feel guilty in the slightest

Christmas bonus for welfare recipients not only restored but increased

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