Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

vectra · 01-10-2018 10:39AM

Adamocovic wrote: »

Anyway, so much for the pace of the Ferrari! Looks like the Merc is completely dominating it at the moment, still have some hope we get an exciting finish to the season but looking grim.

Did you notice that Ferrari nor any of it's two drivers are not pointing fingers or trying to start a conspiricy about the Merc's sudden upsurge in performance.
Not like Lewis and Merc did when Ferrari found something.

recyclebin · 01-10-2018 11:29AM

I'd have a theory on that. Ferrari may have had something in there car and told they were not allowed to use it. If they continued with it they ran the risk of other teams objecting.

I can't see how Mercedes just upped their performance like that. Either that, or they just copied Ferraris implentation of the energy recovery system.

Vegeta · 01-10-2018 11:33AM

vectra wrote: »

Did you notice that Ferrari nor any of it's two drivers are not pointing fingers or trying to start a conspiricy about the Merc's sudden upsurge in performance.
Not like Lewis and Merc did when Ferrari found something.

What's wrong with calling out teams who you think have gained an advantage by possibly breaking the rules? Ferrari have done this too, as well as most teams I imagine. Ferrari did it at the start of 2017 about Mercedes suspension as far as I remember. Official request for clarification about Mercedes suspension set up.

ELM327 · 01-10-2018 11:36AM

Have to say that the last couple of races have just earned lewis another WDC. Ferrari (as a seb/ferrari fan) were quite literally not at the races. Ever since Seb's crash in Germany the momentum has been with the mercedes.

Felt bad for bottas, especially with the nonsense peddled by Sky.

Winning the WDC this year will make it 5 for lewis, I can but hope he retires or the mercedes loses its dominance before he reaches 7.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 01-10-2018 11:39AM

ELM327 wrote: »

Have to say that the last couple of races have just earned lewis another WDC. Ferrari (as a seb/ferrari fan) were quite literally not at the races. Ever since Seb's crash in Germany the momentum has been with the mercedes.

Felt bad for bottas, especially with the nonsense peddled by Sky.

Winning the WDC this year will make it 5 for lewis, I can but hope he retires or the mercedes loses its dominance before he reaches 7.

If he reaches the 7 or more we'll never hear the end of it, given he is British and Sky having the exclusive rights for the next 5/6 seasons, it will send David Croft into overdrive. Sick to death of it all now, this is worse than the 00-04 Schumacher dominance.

H3llR4iser · 01-10-2018 12:00PM

recyclebin wrote: »

I'd have a theory on that. Ferrari may have had something in there car and told they were not allowed to use it. If they continued with it they ran the risk of other teams objecting.

I can't see how Mercedes just upped their performance like that. Either that, or they just copied Ferraris implentation of the energy recovery system.

That wouldn't have gone "silently" - something would have leaked and both the Italian and English speaking presses would have been crying "conspiracy".

The realistic scenario is what has been happening with Ferrari for the last 10 years or so - they simply failed to keep up in the development race. It's the same each year, starting in 2010-ish: whenever they start the season in a good position, they end up suffering the return of their main competitors - it's been Red Bull first, Merc now...

vectra · 01-10-2018 12:52PM

Vegeta wrote: »

What's wrong with calling out teams who you think have gained an advantage by possibly breaking the rules? Ferrari have done this too, as well as most teams I imagine. Ferrari did it at the start of 2017 about Mercedes suspension as far as I remember. Official request for clarification about Mercedes suspension set up.

Yes, Ferrari did indeed call them out and Charlie Whiting deemed Merc's suspension Illegal.
Therefore Ferrari had grounds to complain

Mercedes were just grasping at straws because they are sore losers.

Anjobe · 01-10-2018 01:34PM

vectra wrote: »

Yes, Ferrari did indeed call them out and Charlie Whiting deemed Merc's suspension Illegal.
Therefore Ferrari had grounds to complain

Mercedes were just grasping at straws because they are sore losers.

Hmmm, technically I think one has to actually be losing to be a sore loser.

I'm sure Mercedes were surprised when Ferrari appeared to have an engine advantage over them for the first time in at least 12 years, but got over it when they realised that the Scuderia team management, strategists and drivers were so poor it wasn't going to make any difference to the result!

vectra · 01-10-2018 01:59PM

Anjobe wrote: »

Hmmm, technically I think one has to actually be losing to be a sore loser.

I'm sure Mercedes were surprised when Ferrari appeared to have an engine advantage over them for the first time in at least 12 years, but got over it when they realised that the Scuderia team management, strategists and drivers were so poor it wasn't going to make any difference to the result!

You could be Technically
right,
But apparently If Mercedes are not running away in the distance they are as good as losing. :pac:

LollipopJimmy · 01-10-2018 02:13PM

There's actually a bigger gap at the top now than there was at the end of 2017. It really is disappointing that a team like Ferrari can't get their sh1t together enough to pose a serious threat over the entire season.

It will be hugely interesting to see what Red Bull can do next year but it will take Honda seriously upping the game. Although McLaren have now proved they don't or never had (during this era) the best chassis on the grid. The car is still a dog even with the Renault PU

El_Duderino 09 · 01-10-2018 02:54PM

Inviere wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Haters? If i don’t say Kimi won the race but for Ferrari diddling him on strategy, then I must hate Kimi.

This is pretty much exactly what I’m talking about.

Similarly, if we don't berate Kimi for being past it disagree with him being any good any more, we're all fanboys.

I suppose the crucial distinction is that I didn’t berate Kimi or call anyone a fanboy. I think he’s grand. Not very good and not awful. Yesterday was a prime example. He was... grand. Steadily fell back from the 3 cars in front of him.

Inviere · 01-10-2018 03:20PM

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

It will be hugely interesting to see what Red Bull can do next year but it will take Honda seriously upping the game.

Personally I think it'll be the beginning of the end for Red Bull in F1. Honda won't be catching Ferrari/Mercedes I feel, they're years behind in R&D alone. Renault will get there first, and even that's going to take several seasons. Red Bull will implode having to fight with other non-works teams, Max will find his way into a Mercedes, Le Clerc will lead Ferrari, and I'm off to do the lotto.....:o

Jordan 199 · 01-10-2018 03:28PM

Inviere wrote: »

Personally I think it'll be the beginning of the end for Red Bull in F1. Honda won't be catching Ferrari/Mercedes I feel, they're years behind in R&D alone. Renault will get there first, and even that's going to take several seasons. Red Bull will implode having to fight with other non-works teams, Max will find his way into a Mercedes, Le Clerc will lead Ferrari, and I'm off to do the lotto.....

Will ya do a two line quick pick with plus for me thanks?

Inviere · 01-10-2018 03:29PM

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Will ya do a two line quick pick with plus for me thanks?

Plus or non plus?

Jordan 199 · 01-10-2018 03:34PM

Inviere wrote: »

Plus or non plus?

Plus, cuz I got a better chance of winning sommit innit!

Harika · 01-10-2018 03:42PM

Inviere wrote: »

Personally I think it'll be the beginning of the end for Red Bull in F1. Honda won't be catching Ferrari/Mercedes I feel, they're years behind in R&D alone. Renault will get there first, and even that's going to take several seasons. Red Bull will implode having to fight with other non-works teams, Max will find his way into a Mercedes, Le Clerc will lead Ferrari, and I'm off to do the lotto.....:o

Hondas hope is Porsche and a rule change. If they don't enter they will have to play catch up while with a rule change there is a surprise chance. On the other hand, the longer the rules stay the easier to catch up as the increments are smaller and redbull has newey. But is he really superior to the Mercedes brain, whoever that is.

LollipopJimmy · 01-10-2018 03:46PM

Harika wrote: »

Hondas hope is Porsche and a rule change. If they don't enter they will have to play catch up while with a rule change there is a surprise chance. On the other hand, the longer the rules stay the easier to catch up as the increments are smaller and redbull has newey. But is he really superior to the Mercedes brain, whoever that is.

The thing to remember also is RB have a huge amount of data around the Renault PU. The gap between them and the other Renault runners is fairly substantial, just look at Sunday, Max tore through the field and Danny limped his car through with a damaged nose to 5th and 6th. I'm hopeful, I could be wrong but I'm hopeful

Inviere · 01-10-2018 03:47PM

Harika wrote: »

Hondas hope is Porsche and a rule change. If they don't enter they will have to play catch up while with a rule change there is a surprise chance. On the other hand, the longer the rules stay the easier to catch up as the increments are smaller and redbull has newey. But is he really superior to the Mercedes brain, whoever that is.

Well they've agreed to keep the engine formula as is for 2021+ given the lack of engine manufacturer interest, so whatever happens, not much is going to change in terms of rules it seems. In terms of the rules staying the same making it easier to catch up, I'd kind of agree because the goalpposts are no longer moving...but it's not just a gap between Honda and Mercedes/Ferrari, it's a gulf.

Without Newey, RB wouldn't be as strong as they are, he's an aero guru. The fact they're fighting for podiums with the Renault engine suggests the chassis is nothing short of special, so combine that car with a strong engine and it's game over. I don't see Honda being that engine though, and who else would want to supply them given the threat they pose?

ELM327 · 01-10-2018 03:48PM

Harika wrote: »

Hondas hope is Porsche and a rule change. If they don't enter they will have to play catch up while with a rule change there is a surprise chance. On the other hand, the longer the rules stay the easier to catch up as the increments are smaller and redbull has newey. But is he really superior to the Mercedes brain, whoever that is.

Newey has shown time and again that he can make cars that have great aero, but he struggles with turbulent air.

I don't even know who the mercedes designer is.

I can't see mercedes dominance continuing for much longer, and if there's no major rule changes I see red bull honda coming to the fore. When they were dominant in the past it was not necessarily by being the fastest car on the straights.

H3llR4iser · 01-10-2018 04:02PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Newey has shown time and again that he can make cars that have great aero, but he struggles with turbulent air.

I don't even know who the mercedes designer is.

I can't see mercedes dominance continuing for much longer, and if there's no major rule changes I see red bull honda coming to the fore. When they were dominant in the past it was not necessarily by being the fastest car on the straights.

Mercedes' Engineering Director is Aldo Costa...the same guy who designed Ferrari's last WCC winner (2008) and contenders (2008, 2010, 2012); His designs won, overall, 22 World Titles between drivers and constructors.

And Ferrari ousted him because, essentially, Alonso thought he wasn't good enough. Guess we can chalk up another organizational / strategical mistake there...

Frank Bullitt · 01-10-2018 04:16PM

vectra wrote: »

Probably more to do with Kimi having the most DNF's of the top 4 while he could have bagged decent points.
And with respect to him, he hasn't put a wheel wrong all season.

It's never Kimi's lack of speed or anything like that, always something else.

Frank Bullitt · 01-10-2018 04:21PM

As for Mercs turn in form and closing the gap to Ferrari etc, there were some under-the-skin changes to the car at Singapore that have clearly made a difference to them, particularly the rear wheel hub design which helps rear temps and deg, which Merc have suffered with this year.

https://sports.yahoo.com/hidden-tech-change-transformed-mercedes-095050947.html

ELM327 · 01-10-2018 04:25PM

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Mercedes' Engineering Director is Aldo Costa...the same guy who designed Ferrari's last WCC winner (2008) and contenders (2008, 2010, 2012); His designs won, overall, 22 World Titles between drivers and constructors.

And Ferrari ousted him because, essentially, Alonso thought he wasn't good enough. Guess we can chalk up another organizational / strategical mistake there...

Very impressive record of titles on the wiki page alright.
He's retiring at the end of the season.

Really puts next season as a bit of an unknown, with probably a new designer for mercedes, the honda PU for red bull, and leclerc joining ferrari.

g1983d · 01-10-2018 06:05PM

F1 silly season is still giving, apparently Maurizio Arrivabene is leaving Ferrari to become CEO of Juventus

flazio · 01-10-2018 08:30PM

Well something needs to change at Ferrari because a properly managed team could have beaten Mercedes-Benz comfortably this year.
I mean, what must Vettels mindset be right now? What has he to hope for?

oceanman · 01-10-2018 08:56PM

flazio wrote: »

Well something needs to change at Ferrari because a properly managed team could have beaten Mercedes-Benz comfortably this year.
I mean, what must Vettels mindset be right now? What has he to hope for?

vettels championship fight ended at monza ....time to prepare for 2019 now.

AMKC · 01-10-2018 09:46PM

oceanman wrote: »

vettels championship fight ended at monza ....time to prepare for 2019 now.

I think Vettel still thought he had a good chance at Singapore but after that it certainly ended. All he and Ferrari can do now is try and make the last 5 races harder for Mercedes to win and hope Hamilton has a dnf or makes a mistake or two that's costly to him and gives them some consolidation points.

mickdw · 02-10-2018 12:06AM

oceanman wrote: »

vettels championship fight ended at monza ....time to prepare for 2019 now.

I hope vettel can support kimi to a win if the championship becomes impossible later.

Considering how strong Hamilton is now, Rosbergs achievement in looking better and better.
Hamilton had won 2 titles in the car alongside him, Rosberg could have been cast into the No 2 role but he was strong enough to come back and beat him.

vectra · 02-10-2018 01:05AM

Gintonious wrote: »

It's never Kimi's lack of speed or anything like that, always something else.

Never say never.
But how in the hell could he drive fast in a car that didnt finish a race?
Look back at the season on where he was in these instances and add those possible points to his tally. It also makes no odds if he finishes 1/10 or 10 seconds behind Vettel, as long as he finishes next position to him.

ELM327 · 02-10-2018 08:49AM

mickdw wrote: »

I hope vettel can support kimi to a win if the championship becomes impossible later.

+1
Ferrari are closer in the constructors championship than vettel is for the WDC. With 2 cars in each race if they outscore Mercedes by an average of 10 points in each race they can win it.

Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

Comments