Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

Inviere

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

This thread is as bad as the McGregor thread at times :pac:

Bit of a strawman there, insinuating that defending Kimi means being a fanboy? It certainly has the same amount of tripe posted though. See below...

Kimi needed to be 3 or 4 seconds up the road but wasn't and that weekend he had the car to do it

Here's the qualifying times from Monza

1 Raikkonen 1:19.119
2 Vettel 1:19.280
3 Hamilton 1:19.294

So by your logic, Kimi beating Lewis in Qualy by less than 2/10's (with a tow!), means he had the car to be 4 seconds up the road?

Lewis passed Kimi early on, Kimi passed lewis a few corners later. Queue the pits, Kimi onto a tire that didn't work, for a stint that was for far too long. Ferrari are in F1 long enough to not be sold dummies by other teams. They had 4.5 hours of practice sessions to figure out the optimal strategy, and fluffed it.

LollipopJimmy

Inviere wrote: »

Bit of a strawman there, insinuating that defending Kimi means being a fanboy? It certainly has the same amount of tripe posted though. See below...



Here's the qualifying times from Monza

1 Raikkonen 1:19.119
2 Vettel 1:19.280
3 Hamilton 1:19.294

So by your logic, Kimi beating Lewis in Qualy by less than 2/10's (with a tow!), means he had the car to be 4 seconds up the road?

Lewis passed Kimi early on, Kimi passed lewis a few corners later. Queue the pits, Kimi onto a tire that didn't work, for a stint that was for far too long. Ferrari are in F1 long enough to not be sold dummies by other teams. They had 4.5 hours of practice sessions to figure out the optimal strategy, and fluffed it.

I'm out and about now and can't replay properly but the addition of the Pacman was meant to show I was joking. Apologies if you read it any differently

skipper_G

Inviere wrote: »

By what measure? I thought this season he's actually improved upon the last few?

The only that measure that counts. Leclerc is in the car next year not Kimi. That means the team believe Leclerc is a better choice than Kimi. All the logic cartwheels and spin about a single lap in Monza or team orders are meaningless.

Inviere

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I'm out and about now and can't replay properly but the addition of the Pacman was meant to show I was joking. Apologies if you read it any differently

I did miss that, my bad

Inviere

skipper_G wrote: »

That means the team believe Leclerc is a better choice than Kimi

Quoting Ferrari's sound decision making progress doesn't really support your argument man Again though, going back to being objective for a moment, there's other considerations at play. Kimi's age doesn't support long term investment, and Seb is showing cracks. Ferrari need to act, in order to ensure they've a top driver in the car for the next 4/5/6+ years.

pjohnson

Well I guess we'll see next year if Kimi is really Yuji Ide in disguise as some seem to think.

Jordan 199

pjohnson wrote: »

Well I guess we'll see next year if Kimi is really Yuji Ide in disguise as some seem to think.

Yuji Ide. Blast from the past!

skipper_G

Inviere wrote: »

Quoting Ferrari's sound decision making progress doesn't really support your argument man Again though, going back to being objective for a moment, there's other considerations at play. Kimi's age doesn't support long term investment, and Seb is showing cracks. Ferrari need to act, in order to ensure they've a top driver in the car for the next 4/5/6+ years.

So what you're saying is every decision Ferrari makes is automatically a bad one regardless of any actual facts. In that case, had they chosen to keep Kimi it would in fact have been the wrong choice by your logic.

I've watched enough of Leclerc to have confidence he'll do a good job for Ferrari. If they deliver a race winning car I expect him to do just that and win races. Kimi has won 0 races in his second Ferrari career while his teammate has won plenty. And no, it's not all because the team won't let him win, some perhaps but Kimi just isn't quick enough anymore.

That doesn't mean I think it's a bad thing for Sauber to sign him, I think it's a great signing because he does have lots of experience, and a big profile. He's better than Ericsson I would say, but if it doesn't work out with Kimi they still have him in reserve.

Inviere

skipper_G wrote: »

So what you're saying is every decision Ferrari makes is automatically a bad one regardless of any actual facts. In that case, had they chosen to keep Kimi it would in fact have been the wrong choice by your logic.

That's a strawman argument to be fair.

I've watched enough of Leclerc to have confidence he'll do a good job for Ferrari. If they deliver a race winning car I expect him to do just that and win races. Kimi has won 0 races in his second Ferrari career while his teammate has won plenty. And no, it's not all because the team won't let him win, some perhaps but Kimi just isn't quick enough anymore.

That doesn't mean I think it's a bad thing for Sauber to sign him, I think it's a great signing because he does have lots of experience, and a bug profile. He's better than Ericsson I would say, but if it doesn't work out with Kimi they still have him in reserve.

I don't disagree with any of that.

elperello

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What exactly do you mean? Do you reckon Ferrari wants him to stay but he said no because he wanted to try a Sauber instead?

Lads I get that people really really like Kimi, but try to be objective for a minute and it’s fairly obvious what’s happening. He was dropped by Ferrari and was saved from dropping out of the sport by a mid grid team who would benefit from his profile.

Nobody is looking at Kimi and thinking he’s getting faster. It’s clear that over the last 4/5 seasons he’s been getting slower.

I could have phrased that better.

No, he had to go from Ferrari but the move to Sauber is because he wants it.

He could have retired after a great career in F1. A WDC in the bag and a hard fought one at that, a great tally of podiums.
He has always had a strong streak of maverick in his DNA and the move to Sauber is part of that. We might have to wait for the book to find out his true motivation.

I am not even a fan of Kimi or any other driver for that matter. I have nothing but the highest respect for anyone who can even drive an F1 car never mind sustain a long term career in the sport.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

pjohnson wrote: »

Well I guess we'll see next year if Kimi is really Yuji Ide in disguise as some seem to think.

Christijan Albers is probably the best person to judge that.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

How did that race work out again? With the fastest car he lost the lead and the race to Hamilton.

Of course he’s past it. How would you describe his overall pace over the last couple of seasons?

Stupid strategy lost him that race.
But sure.
As the old saying goes.
Haters will hate.

Haters? If i don’t say Kimi won the race but for Ferrari diddling him on strategy, then I must hate Kimi.

This is pretty much exactly what I’m talking about.

skipper_G

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Haters? If i don’t say Kimi won the race but for Ferrari diddling him on strategy, then I must hate Kimi.

This is pretty much exactly what I’m talking about.

You're wasting your time. It's impossible to have a sensible reasoned discussion on here about drivers. Be it Kimi, Vettel, Hamilton, Stroll, Perez they all end up the same way

Inviere

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Haters? If i don’t say Kimi won the race but for Ferrari diddling him on strategy, then I must hate Kimi.

This is pretty much exactly what I’m talking about.

Similarly, if we don't berate Kimi for being past it disagree with him being any good any more, we're all fanboys.

AMKC

So Sochi was not exactly a great race today. What track you you like to see on the calendar instead of it? I can think of a few but I think it would be great to see F1 go back to India as that was quiet a good track.

chicorytip

AMKC wrote:

So Sochi was not exactly a great race today. What track you you like to see on the calendar instead of it? I can think of a few but I think it would be great to see F1 go back to India as that was quiet a good track.

Malaysia, possibly. Zandvoort would be great. Baku should be dropped.

Charlie-Bravo

Turkey is a great track. Turns 8 and 12 are that good it keeps you interested. Shame it's in the middle of nowhere and a pain to get to. I think it's the same for India.

Charlie-Bravo

Actually, just here watching the NASCAR road race at Charlotte. I think F1 would be good at it. It's got a bit of the Indy track style, but decent chicanes and a nice infield section.

Burkie1203

astrofluff wrote: »

Actually, just here watching the NASCAR road race at Charlotte. I think F1 would be good at it. It's got a bit of the Indy track style, but decent chicanes and a nice infield section.

Yeah saw a bit of it. Was quite good. Good to see a bit of thinking outside the box

F1 has died for me.

GarIT

chicorytip wrote: »

Baku should be dropped.

At least the name should be dropped. European? Since when is an Muslim Asian country in the middle east, over 2,000km from Europe in Europe? We might as well call Silverstone the Indian Grand Prix.

Burkie1203

GarIT wrote: »

At least the name should be dropped. European? Since when is an Muslim Asian country in the middle east, over 2,000km from Europe in Europe? We might as well call Silverstone the Indian Grand Prix.

They changed the name after the first year

AMKC

GarIT wrote: »

At least the name should be dropped. European? Since when is an Muslim Asian country in the middle east, over 2,000km from Europe in Europe? We might as well call Silverstone the Indian Grand Prix.

They did stop calling it the European GP. They only done that at the first race there.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Remember when the Nurburgring was called the Luxembourg GP?

GarIT

Burkie1203 wrote: »

They changed the name after the first year

AMKC wrote: »

They did stop calling it the European GP. They only done that at the first race there.

I thought I had heard it since then, maybe I didn't.

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

Fixed that bit of your post there for you.

As for the Leclerc?

Both you and I and everyone else on this planet has not got one clue how he will go next year
so back at you there to one of my previous replies.
We will have to wait to see how it pans out.

Haha, because Kimi has been really held back from competing against Vettel this year, has nothing to do with Vettel just being fast overall, right?

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

Haha, because Kimi has been really held back from competing against Vettel this year, has nothing to do with Vettel just being fast overall, right?

Probably more to do with Kimi having the most DNF's of the top 4 while he could have bagged decent points.
And with respect to him, he hasn't put a wheel wrong all season.

flazio

It'd be nice if the Nurburgring and Imola could find their way back on the calendar. I disagree that Baku should be dropped, whatever about the politics of the region, the track has been a revelation. Hasn't had a bad Grand Prix yet.

Harika

Addyson Gray Glue wrote: »

Remember when the Nurburgring was called the Luxembourg GP?

Yes and do you know why?

It was in the regulations that one country could only have one race, so the grand prix of Europe was introduced to circumvent that.

Adamocovic

Bottas was very level headed about yesterday, said he took one for the team.

I completely understand Mercedes wanting Lewis to extend the gap with Vettel but you would have to feel for Bottas. Didn't put a foot wrong and I am correct in thinking he was 1-2 seconds ahead of Lewis when the order came in?

Reminiscent of Rubens with Michael. Also anyone else watch on SkySports? Thought they were way off with their justifications that over the week-end Hamilton deserved to win it. Don't see how anyone could argue Bottas didn't deserve or do enough to win it, even Hamilton himself said it felt awful.

Anyway, so much for the pace of the Ferrari! Looks like the Merc is completely dominating it at the moment, still have some hope we get an exciting finish to the season but looking grim.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Harika wrote: »

Yes and do you know why?

It was in the regulations that one country could only have one race, so the grand prix of Europe was introduced to circumvent that.

Aye true