Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

vectra

It seems a lot of members on here know more about Kimi's abilities than the professionals.
Even Hamilton feels it is a big mistake on Ferrari's Behalf.
http://scuderiafans.com/hamilton-raikkonen-axing-doesnt-make-sense/


Apparently dropping Kimi is part of Mauriizio's decision to leave the team as well.

http://scuderiafans.com/maurizio-arrivabene-set-quit-role-ferrari/

LollipopJimmy

To be fair, the last thing Hamilton wants is a young, fast kid in a car capable of challenging. He has the beating of Kimi fairly easily now but a kid who has the potential to be Max Verstappenesque and possibly a little more reckless?

skipper_G

vectra wrote: »

It seems a lot of members on here know more about Kimi's abilities than the professionals.
Even Hamilton feels it is a big mistake on Ferrari's Behalf.
http://scuderiafans.com/hamilton-raikkonen-axing-doesnt-make-sense/


Apparently dropping Kimi is part of Mauriizio's decision to leave the team as well.

http://scuderiafans.com/maurizio-arrivabene-set-quit-role-ferrari/

You're cherrypicking links from a Ferrari fan site, no thanks. I'll base my opinion on some actual facts

recyclebin

Ferrari fit second sensor on their battery pack. Engine suddenly down on power.......... Coincidence?

https://www.pitpass.com/63072/Questions-over-Ferraris-loss-of-power

Surprised this hasn't got more coverage.

H3llR4iser

oceanman wrote: »

vettels championship fight ended at monza ....time to prepare for 2019 now.

They will keep going at it until they're arithmetically out of the fight; 50 points look like a lot but all it takes if for a wet race, a safety car at the wrong time, a mistake, a technical issue or Verstappen (he's been driving safely for a couple of races, he's due a d1ck move a-la-Monza now ) and it's back to 25 points.

In 2007, Raikkonen was 17 points behind the Championship Leader with two races to go, and became WDC at the end. Never say never until it's physically impossible in motorsports.

The one question standing is if Ferrari still have the performance to go on and steadily win races - I don't think Vettel would have won in Monza in any case as the Mercedes seemed better on the second stint, they were outpaced in Singapore and would have risked ending up behind the Red Bulls in Sochi as well, had the latter not had the engine penalties.

vectra

skipper_G wrote: »

You're cherrypicking links from a Ferrari fan site, no thanks. I'll base my opinion on some actual facts

Any better for you?? >> https://www.planetf1.com/news/hamilton-raikkonen-axing-doesnt-make-sense/

And here >> https://www.planetf1.com/news/arrivabene-to-leave-ferrari-for-juventus/

skipper_G

vectra wrote: »

Any better for you?? >> https://www.planetf1.com/news/hamilton-raikkonen-axing-doesnt-make-sense/

I'd say it's more the case that Hamilton prefers a weaker driver in the opposition team, having seen up close how good Leclerc is he's probably worried about how much better he'll be than Kimi. And instead of fighting Vettel, he'll have two Ferraris to contend with sooner rather than later.

vectra wrote: »

And here >> https://www.planetf1.com/news/arrivabene-to-leave-ferrari-for-juventus/

He's one of 9 names released on a short list, not sure what your point is here.

vectra

skipper_G wrote: »

I'd say it's more the case that Hamilton prefers a weaker driver in the opposition team, having seen up close how good Leclerc is he's probably worried about how much better he'll be than Kimi. And instead of fighting Vettel, he'll have two Ferraris to contend with sooner rather than later.



He's one of 9 names released on a short list, not sure what your point is here.

Hamilton wont have to fight Leclerc,

As for my point?

There is a sense that Ferrari are ready to move into a new era, especially with the new Scuderia board going ahead in bringing Charles Leclerc into their driver line-up from 2019, while Arrivabene himself preferred to keep Kimi Raikkonen in the team

sound similar to my first link?

skipper_G

vectra wrote: »

Hamilton wont have to fight Leclerc

That's your opinion, I have a different one. I think at some point next season Leclerc will be fighting Hamilton for a podium/race win, assuming Ferrari deliver another competitive car. But since time travel hasn't been invented yet we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

vectra wrote: »

As for my point?


sound similar to my first link?

Yep, It's a link to a story about Arrivabene being named on a short list for a job at Juventus as far as I can see. I still don't know what your point is.

cherryghost

recyclebin wrote: »

Ferrari fit second sensor on their battery pack. Engine suddenly down on power.......... Coincidence?

https://www.pitpass.com/63072/Questions-over-Ferraris-loss-of-power

Surprised this hasn't got more coverage.

Yeah quite interesting. Of course I doubt whatever FIAs findings will be dealt with behind closed doors. They dont want a PR F1 disaster, let alone a Ferrari one.

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

Never say never.
But how in the hell could he drive fast in a car that didnt finish a race?
Look back at the season on where he was in these instances and add those possible points to his tally. It also makes no odds if he finishes 1/10 or 10 seconds behind Vettel, as long as he finishes next position to him.

Ah so if we add up results that didn't happen his stats are better...makes loads of sense in an alternate reality.

How about the races that he has finished, he has had a race winning car for the last 4 years, and hasn't won a race.

Inviere

recyclebin wrote: »

Ferrari fit second sensor on their battery pack. Engine suddenly down on power.......... Coincidence?

https://www.pitpass.com/63072/Questions-over-Ferraris-loss-of-power

Surprised this hasn't got more coverage.

Seen that on Reddit this morning, very interesting indeed. It would seem the FIA could not be 100% of the readings from the previous sensor. They've fitted a second one, and as it happens, Mercedes are back in control.

Whatever Ferrari have discovered, is obviously something that could potentially be contested under legality.

ELM327

Gintonious wrote: »

Ah so if we add up results that didn't happen his stats are better...makes loads of sense in an alternate reality.

How about the races that he has finished, he has had a race winning car for the last 4 years, and hasn't won a race.

What about the races he moved over for Seb?
Or stayed out way too long, delayed the mercs and came 4th?

Inviere

mickdw wrote: »

Considering how strong Hamilton is now, Rosbergs achievement in looking better and better.
Hamilton had won 2 titles in the car alongside him, Rosberg could have been cast into the No 2 role but he was strong enough to come back and beat him.

Absolutely, though it's not quite as clear cut. Back then, it doesn't seem as though there was a clear #1 driver agreement in place, and Nico was largely allowed to fight (sometimes to the detriment of the results). When Nico retired, Mercedes have very likely safe-guarded against that by putting support-role agreements in place, very likely limiting what Bottas is able to really do in the race.

ELM327

Inviere wrote: »

Absolutely, though it's not quite as clear cut. Back then, it doesn't seem as though there was a clear #1 driver agreement in place, and Nico was largely allowed to fight (sometimes to the detriment of the results). When Nico retired, Mercedes have very likely safe-guarded against that by putting support-role agreements in place, very likely limiting what Bottas is able to really do in the race.

+1
When Nico was there it was clear there was no #1 driver, it was the team first, so whoever was leading got the benefit of team orders.
Nowadays you have a clear #1 and #2. It's like Rubens/Irvine at Ferrari. Clear #2 drivers that must get out of the way.

Frank Bullitt

ELM327 wrote: »

What about the races he moved over for Seb?
Or stayed out way too long, delayed the mercs and came 4th?

Which races would they be? I know he moved over in Germany this year as they were on different strategies.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Gintonious wrote: »

Which races would they be? I know he moved over in Germany this year as they were on different strategies.

Monaco & Hungary 2017 also

vectra

ELM327 wrote: »

What about the races he moved over for Seb?
Or stayed out way too long, delayed the mercs and came 4th?

I am giving up on trying to talk to some members
As I said already. Hater will hate.
I am curious as to what will happen next year is golden boy number 3 ( Leclerc) fails to deliver as hoped by his Fanboys.
OH Hold on.. The car will be at fault :rolleyes:

Frank Bullitt

Addyson Gray Glue wrote: »

Monaco & Hungary 2017 also

Hungry 2017? I didn't see Raikkonen move over to let him past there. I saw Vettel lead the race and Raikkonen wasn't able to pass him.

As for Monaco, Vettel was challenging fort the championship at that point, Ferrari were right to give him free air for 5 laps, especially with Hamilton having the race he was having.

I don't understand this argument at all, Vettel is clearly the number 1 in the team and was ahead and leading the championship in both of the above cases, why would Ferrari not favour their No.1 driver? Hungry wasn't a case of that anyway as Vettel was already leading at a track where you can't really overtake anyway.

Even at that, Vettel has won 13 races at Ferrari while being a teammate to Raikkonen. Raikkonen has maybe been compromised once for one of them victories (Monaco 2017).

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

I am giving up on trying to talk to some members
As I said already. Hater will hate.
I am curious as to what will happen next year is golden boy number 3 ( Leclerc) fails to deliver as hoped by his Fanboys.
OH Hold on.. The car will be at fault :rolleyes:

We'll just use your logic and blame everything but the drivers abilities

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

We'll just use your logic and blame everything but the drivers abilities

Next year will tell all.
As I have already said
you don't know.
I don't know
Nobody know's

Only time will tell.

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

Next year will tell all.
As I have already said
you don't know.
I don't know
Nobody know's

Only time will tell.

Of course, I am just using the current facts and results to inform my opinion as to why Ferrari made that decision.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Gintonious wrote: »

Hungry 2017? I didn't see Raikkonen move over to let him past there. I saw Vettel lead the race and Raikkonen wasn't able to pass him.

As for Monaco, Vettel was challenging fort the championship at that point, Ferrari were right to give him free air for 5 laps, especially with Hamilton having the race he was having.

I don't understand this argument at all, Vettel is clearly the number 1 in the team and was ahead and leading the championship in both of the above cases, why would Ferrari not favour their No.1 driver? Hungry wasn't a case of that anyway as Vettel was already leading at a track where you can't really overtake anyway.

Even at that, Vettel has won 13 races at Ferrari while being a teammate to Raikkonen. Raikkonen has maybe been compromised once for one of them victories (Monaco 2017).

You seem very political in your reply, I’m not willing to engage in that.

In Hungary, due to Vettel having a steering problem he wasn’t able to go as quickly as Raikkonen, Kimi asked if he could overtake and was told no.

The Mercedes remained close behind at all times but couldn’t cope being in the ‘dirty air’ of the Ferrari’s.

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

Of course, I am just using the current facts and results to inform my opinion as to why Ferrari made that decision.

And we all know what they say about opinions. :pac:

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

And we all know what they say about opinions. :pac:

Haters gonna hate, as some say.

Frank Bullitt

Addyson Gray Glue wrote: »

You seem very political in your reply, I’m not willing to engage in that.

In Hungary, due to Vettel having a steering problem he wasn’t able to go as quickly as Raikkonen, Kimi asked if he could overtake and was told no.

The Mercedes remained close behind at all times but couldn’t cope being in the ‘dirty air’ of the Ferrari’s.

Political? A team favouring the No.1 driver (and that team has a rich history of that), by telling its second driver to not try and overtake is not political, its strategic and made complete sense. His car was compromised but not so damaged that it warranted a swap or overtake, like France 2008 lets say where Raikkonen had the exhaust fall off.

If anything Kimi was just chancing his arm, knowing full well the team would never swap unless Vettels car was not going to make it full distance. Raikkonen was also suffering from the dirty air from Vettel, Ferrari knew full well even with a car that is not working to its abilities, overtaking at that track is pretty tough at the best of times.

pjohnson

Gintonious wrote: »

Political? A team favouring the No.1 driver (and that team has a rich history of that), by telling its second driver to not try and overtake is not political, its strategic and made complete sense. His car was compromised but not so damaged that it warranted a swap or overtake, like France 2008 lets say where Raikkonen had the exhaust fall off.

If anything Kimi was just chancing his arm, knowing full well the team would never swap unless Vettels car was not going to make it full distance. Raikkonen was also suffering from the dirty air from Vettel, Ferrari knew full well even with a car that is not working to its abilities, overtaking at that track is pretty tough at the best of times.

What exactly makes you think Leclerc wont be told to get out of the way of the teams number 1 driver?

Frank Bullitt

pjohnson wrote: »

What exactly makes you think Leclerc wont be told to get out of the way of the teams number 1 driver?

I don't recall saying that he would.

Kimi being a No.2 now is not really his own doing, its more of Vettel just being better and faster and more assertive at the team, thus putting himself in a position to be the No.1 .

Leclerc is a bit of an unknown but has been part of Ferrari as a youth driver for a few years now, his speed is there and his potential is there. Its clearly more potential (at 21years old when he properly joins Ferrari) and has signed a 4 year deal with them.

Clearly no guarantees he will do better or beat Vettel, but the odds are good for him. For Ferrari, they get a fast driver and future race winner.

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

I don't recall saying that he would.

Kimi being a No.2 now is not really his own doing, its more of Vettel just being better and faster and more assertive at the team, thus putting himself in a position to be the No.1 .

Leclerc is a bit of an unknown but has been part of Ferrari as a youth driver for a few years now, his speed is there and his potential is there. Its clearly more potential (at 21years old when he properly joins Ferrari) and has signed a 4 year deal with them.

Clearly no guarantees he will do better or beat Vettel, but the odds are good for him. For Ferrari, they get a fast driver and future race winner.

You hope,
Don't forget there are plenty of fast drivers out there with more experience.

Harika

Rumour time
Markelov might buy into sirotkin seat at Williams for the expanse of Sirotkin.
Sirotkin is trying to get to torro rosso with his sponsorship money, but kyvat might be the blocker here as two Russian drivers.
Russell and kubica are in the run for the second Williams cockpit with kubica bringing more money to the table than Mercedes can give discount
Ocon might sit out 2019 as test driver for not force India or Mercedes.
Expect perez confirmation at the Mexican gp
Hondas New engine that was tested in Fp1 in Russia is worth half a second in laptime and if that is true they might progress to the best of the rest in suzuka when the engine is used in race and qualifying.