South-East Health - Primetime

Max Powers · 24-09-2018 12:08pm

I can understand people are tired of doing these protests/marches or events to raise awareness, keep it in media and public conscious, it's a long struggle we clearly shouldn't have to, the arguement for 24/7 care has been well and truly won with cases presented, facts, figures, etc.
But to come on here and just bad mouth the people who make the effort is beyond apathetic, it's pathetic.

Deiseen · 24-09-2018 12:22pm

Max Powers wrote: »

I can understand people are tired of doing these protests/marches or events to raise awareness, keep it in media and public conscious, it's a long struggle we clearly shouldn't have to, the arguement for 24/7 care has been well and truly won with cases presented, facts, figures, etc.
But to come on here and just bad mouth the people who make the effort is beyond apathetic, it's pathetic.

Pretty bad alright. Actually disgraceful.

fricatus · 24-09-2018 1:27pm

Gardner wrote: »

was down in the city over the weekend and went down for a look while herself was in the shops. left after 5 minutes. heard nothing new and the same auld speech. its nearly a men's shed at the moment to get auld lads out of the gaff to rant and rave on the street and then have a few pints on the way home.

Ridiculous comment. The protests are not there to entertain you or offer you something new. The whole idea is that we turn out in numbers so that the politicians know how we feel about this issue. And since little has been done since the last protest, it's only to be expected that there are no new arguments.

Gardner · 24-09-2018 2:29pm

hold on and we have another protest this weekend with the same speakers and same rhetoric. sure fu@k it lads, will we go again in 2 weeks time with the same speakers and rhetoric? sure fu@k it again in the meantime we will think up of another rumour and create more confusion and sure we will have another protest with the same speaker and rhetoric.

Deiseen · 24-09-2018 4:08pm

Gardner wrote: »

hold on and we have another protest this weekend with the same speakers and same rhetoric. sure fu@k it lads, will we go again in 2 weeks time with the same speakers and rhetoric? sure fu@k it again in the meantime we will think up of another rumour and create more confusion and sure we will have another protest with the same speaker and rhetoric.

Woah, jaysis....

debok · 24-09-2018 5:21pm

Ah stop boy will ya

Johnboy1951 · 24-09-2018 5:57pm

Gardner wrote: »

hold on and we have another protest this weekend with the same speakers and same rhetoric. sure fu@k it lads, will we go again in 2 weeks time with the same speakers and rhetoric? sure fu@k it again in the meantime we will think up of another rumour and create more confusion and sure we will have another protest with the same speaker and rhetoric.

Yes, turn out for each and every protest so that those who represent us know we are serious about getting a proper service in the regional hospital!

If it succeeds even the likes of you will benefit!

:rolleyes:

Max Powers · 25-09-2018 8:21am

Gardner wrote: »

hold on and we have another protest this weekend with the same speakers and same rhetoric. sure fu@k it lads, will we go again in 2 weeks time with the same speakers and rhetoric? sure fu@k it again in the meantime we will think up of another rumour and create more confusion and sure we will have another protest with the same speaker and rhetoric.

Your original comments were simply pathetic, much like the nonsense above, a perfect example off the worst type of troll who says everything is rubbish while sitting on the sidelines

Mulbert · 25-09-2018 10:38pm

hardybuck wrote: »

I think people forget about how big Limerick is. The county is about the size of Waterford and Kilkenny combined. They also serve north Tipp, parts of Clare with a good population, and North Kerry as you've mentioned.

I think that combined with the fact that parts of the south east are within an hour of Dublin and Cork doesn't help either.

On a point of fact, area wise, County Limerick is nowhere near the size of counties Waterford and Kilkenny combined.

hardybuck · 25-09-2018 11:10pm

Mulbert wrote: »

On a point of fact, area wise, County Limerick is nowhere near the size of counties Waterford and Kilkenny combined.

I was referring to population, as a matter of fact.

debok · 25-09-2018 11:44pm

hardybuck wrote: »

I was referring to population, as a matter of fact.

You did say size of county though and not population.

hardybuck · 25-09-2018 11:47pm

debok wrote: »

You did say size of county though and not population.

Cop on to yourself.

Chiparus · 26-09-2018 6:21am

hardybuck wrote: »

I was referring to population, as a matter of fact.

The catchment of the Limerick hospital is 350,000, the catchment of UHW is 550,000.
Limerick is within 90 miutes of two other Cardiac labs.

hardybuck · 26-09-2018 8:00am

Chiparus wrote: »

The catchment of the Limerick hospital is 350,000, the catchment of UHW is 550,000.
Limerick is within 90 miutes of two other Cardiac labs.

How many people in the SE are within an hour of Dublin or Cork?

Chiparus · 26-09-2018 1:19pm

hardybuck wrote: »

How many people in the SE are within an hour of Dublin or Cork?

For cardiac care not many , no one from wexford , one patient from Killkenny and 2 from Waterford got to the treating hospitals within 90 minutes.
Even that is a bit dodgy as it is supposed to be diagnosis to "wire passing" within 90 minutes -

Rodin · 26-09-2018 8:49pm

If anyone should be getting a cath lab it's the northwest.
There's none in Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim.

Should be one put there before any expansion in the southwest

invara · 26-09-2018 9:30pm

Rodin wrote: »

If anyone should be getting a cath lab it's the northwest.
There's none in Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim.

Should be one put there before any expansion in the southwest

Everyone in the state should be within 1 hour (alarm to balloon) PCI service, the HSE standard is around 1.5hrs but the clearly do not hit it. The Northwest has access in Derry and Armagh which improves access for much of Donegal (shocking roads mean ambulance speeds are low) and north midlands https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/cross-border-cardiology-service-credited-with-saving-27-lives-1.2946855 . Sligo, Mayo and Leitrim are in a similar position to the 500k people of the SE.

Rodin · 26-09-2018 10:10pm

invara wrote: »

Everyone in the state should be within 1 hour (alarm to balloon) PCI service, the HSE standard is around 1.5hrs but the clearly do not hit it. The Northwest has access in Derry and Armagh which improves access for much of Donegal (shocking roads mean ambulance speeds are low) and north midlands https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/cross-border-cardiology-service-credited-with-saving-27-lives-1.2946855 . Sligo, Mayo and Leitrim are in a similar position to the 500k people of the SE.

Armagh?
What cardiology services in Armagh cover Donegal?

Chiparus · 27-09-2018 12:14am

Rodin wrote: »

If anyone should be getting a cath lab it's the northwest.
There's none in Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim.

Should be one put there before any expansion in the southwest

There is a cath lab in Donegal ( Letterkenny) and it is shared service with Altnagelvin.
http://www.westerntrust.hscni.net/about/3439.htm

azimuth17 · 27-09-2018 9:55am

If the people in the north west want a cath lab (which they should have if figures justify it) they should fight for it. UHW is in south east with population of 500,000. The Northwest fight is with Dublin and its 21 or 22 cath labs and not with the south east.Rodin is obviously not fully familiar with the UHW/south east case.

Rodin · 27-09-2018 12:28pm

Chiparus wrote: »

There is a cath lab in Donegal ( Letterkenny) and it is shared service with Altnagelvin.
http://www.westerntrust.hscni.net/about/3439.htm

The Cath lab in Letterkenny is a mobile truck that visits only every Thursday for elective procedures. There is no Cath lab at any other time in Donegal.

Rodin · 27-09-2018 12:30pm

azimuth17 wrote: »

If the people in the north west want a cath lab (which they should have if figures justify it) they should fight for it. UHW is in south east with population of 500,000. The Northwest fight is with Dublin and its 21 or 22 cath labs and not with the south east.Rodin is obviously not fully familiar with the UHW/south east case.

I am very familiar with it and the independent report that says a 2nd lab is not needed.
I am also aware of the tragic death that was hijacked in pushing the agent forward and the subsequent report that said no Cath lab could have saved that man.

Squidvicious · 27-09-2018 12:39pm

Rodin wrote: »

I am very familiar with it and the independent report that says a 2nd lab is not needed.
I am also aware of the tragic death that was hijacked in pushing the agent forward and the subsequent report that said no Cath lab could have saved that man.

I wonder how familiar you are with it? I think that many question the independence of the report. The Herity report stated as a target that patients reach a Cath lab within a 90 minute window. It went on to suggest that a patient could reach CUH from Waterford City within 90 minutes. Anyone living down here knows that this 90 minute travel time is hopelessly optimistic.
http://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/set-herity-aside/
The argument "sure, don't they need it up in Sligo also/even more" is irrelevant whataboutery.

invara · 27-09-2018 12:46pm

Rodin. Read the second word on the Herity report and come back to me attempting to stand over the quality of the "independent" report.

Chiparus · 27-09-2018 5:39pm

Rodin wrote: »

I am very familiar with it and the independent report that says a 2nd lab is not needed.
I am also aware of the tragic death that was hijacked in pushing the agent forward and the subsequent report that said no Cath lab could have saved that man.

Tell me if you had a STEMI or indeed a NOMI would you be happy to have thrombosislysis?

azimuth17 · 27-09-2018 8:02pm

Rodin's post exemplifies begrudgery at its worst. What part of the country has produced him and his miserable attitude? North west should fight its own battles rather than criticising the people of the south east who have fought fora service they are patently entitled to. He should check out SEPAG or HEFSE pages on Facebook.

Chiparus · 27-09-2018 9:28pm

Rodin wrote: »

The Cath lab in Letterkenny is a mobile truck that visits only every Thursday for elective procedures. There is no Cath lab at any other time in Donegal.

Funny you said there was none.

The problem for Donegal is that the population numbers does not support a stand alone cath lab, thats why there is a SLA with Derry. it is 25 min blue light to Altnagelvin form Letterkenny General.
They had 15 MIs letterkenny in 2016. the vast majority got PPCI.

Rodin · 27-09-2018 10:54pm

Squidvicious wrote: »

I wonder how familiar you are with it? I think that many question the independence of the report. The Herity report stated as a target that patients reach a Cath lab within a 90 minute window. It went on to suggest that a patient could reach CUH from Waterford City within 90 minutes. Anyone living down here knows that this 90 minute travel time is hopelessly optimistic.
http://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/set-herity-aside/
The argument "sure, don't they need it up in Sligo also/even more" is irrelevant whataboutery.

The helicopters must be very slow down there and if an ambulance can't make a 122km trip in an hour and a half then perhaps it's a better road that's required.

Rodin · 27-09-2018 10:58pm

Chiparus wrote: »

Funny you said there was none.

The problem for Donegal is that the population numbers does not support a stand alone cath lab, thats why there is a SLA with Derry. it is 25 min blue light to Altnagelvin form Letterkenny General.
They had 15 MIs letterkenny in 2016. the vast majority got PPCI.

I should have clarified. The lab in Letterkenny is diagnostic only, not therapeutic.
Cardiothoracic backup is desirable when performing any stenting.

Rodin · 27-09-2018 11:00pm

azimuth17 wrote: »

Rodin's post exemplifies begrudgery at its worst. What part of the country has produced him and his miserable attitude? North west should fight its own battles rather than criticising the people of the south east who have fought fora service they are patently entitled to. He should check out SEPAG or HEFSE pages on Facebook.

No begrudgery at all.
I simply feel that the resources should be given where there is most need first.
And given there is no stenting in the north west, I think it should be there.

Johnboy1951 · 27-09-2018 11:19pm

Rodin wrote: »

The helicopters must be very slow down there and if an ambulance can't make a 122km trip in an hour and a half then perhaps it's a better road that's required.

The ignorance of the situation apparent in this post (and others) is unbelievable ..... except maybe it is posted by someone who has no understanding at all of the situation.

Rodin · 27-09-2018 11:19pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The ignorance of the situation apparent in this post (and others) is unbelievable ..... except maybe it is posted by someone who has no understanding at all of the situation.

The report's conclusions are quite clear.
It states that the current lab at the time of the report wasn't even fully staffed never mind having a second one.

It reminds me of the Shinners wanting to open a load of new gaelscoileanna in Derry when the current ones aren't even anywhere near full.
Just a waste of resources.

Rodin · 27-09-2018 11:28pm

azimuth17 wrote: »

Rodin's post exemplifies begrudgery at its worst. What part of the country has produced him and his miserable attitude? North west should fight its own battles rather than criticising the people of the south east who have fought fora service they are patently entitled to. He should check out SEPAG or HEFSE pages on Facebook.

''In addition, the report revealed that the average transfer times from Kilkenny to Dublin is “nowhere near the 88 minutes claimed in the Herity Report”, said SEPAG, “and in fact it is two hours 25 minutes, from UHW to CUH comes in at two hours 26 minutes, while the journey from Wexford to Dublin came to two and a half hours.''

Had a look at SEPAG's figures.
Average transfer time from Waterford City to Cork City is almost 2 1/2 hours? This of course is between 5pm and 9 am and at weekends.
What exactly are they driving?

Johnboy1951 · 27-09-2018 11:44pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The ignorance of the situation apparent in this post (and others) is unbelievable ..... except maybe it is posted by someone who has no understanding at all of the situation.

...... and it continues in further posts ........

Rodin · 27-09-2018 11:48pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

...... and it continues in further posts ........

Feel free to qualify your opinion in any way...

Chiparus · 27-09-2018 11:48pm

Rodin wrote: »

The helicopters must be very slow down there and if an ambulance can't make a 122km trip in an hour and a half then perhaps it's a better road that's required.

Problem is that the patient has to be loaded on an ambulance ( usual takes 10-15 minutes),
the ambulance drives 20 mins to the Airport,
unloads the patient from the ambulance and loads onto helicopter 15 mins ,
flys to Cork airport 40 mins,
unloads the pateint loads onto ambulance 15 mins.
Drives to CUH 15 mins,
Unloads in CUH transfer to Lab 10 mins

total time 125 minutes

They did use the helicopter, until they realised it was actually slower.

Rodin · 27-09-2018 11:49pm

Chiparus wrote: »

Problem is that the patient has to be loaded on an ambulance ( usual takes 10-15 minutes),
the ambulance drives 20 mins to the Airport,
unloads the patient from the ambulance and loads onto helicopter 15 mins ,
flys to Cork airport 40 mins,
unloads the pateint loads onto ambulance 15 mins.
Drives to CUH 15 mins,
Unloads in CUH transfer to Lab 10 mins

total time 125 minutes

They did use the helicopter, until they realised it was actually slower.

CUH to the airport is 10mins and that's in a car with no blue lights.

Rodin · 27-09-2018 11:53pm

Chiparus wrote: »

Problem is that the patient has to be loaded on an ambulance ( usual takes 10-15 minutes),
the ambulance drives 20 mins to the Airport,
unloads the patient from the ambulance and loads onto helicopter 15 mins ,
flys to Cork airport 40 mins,
unloads the pateint loads onto ambulance 15 mins.
Drives to CUH 15 mins,
Unloads in CUH transfer to Lab 10 mins

total time 125 minutes

They did use the helicopter, until they realised it was actually slower.

Be cheaper to build a helipad in each location.
Handier too to have faster transport time to the regional neurosurgical unit.

Chiparus · 27-09-2018 11:57pm

Rodin wrote: »

Be cheaper to build a helipad in each location.

Not really , helipad is €1.8 million 3.6 million for two , cost of cath lab in UHW is 1.9 million.

You also need a helicopter and this needs to be staffed 24/7. Coast guard cannot do the transfers anymore.

Rodin · 28-09-2018 12:03am

Chiparus wrote: »

Not really , helipad is €1.8 million 3.6 million for two , cost of cath lab in UHW is 1.9 million.

That's just to build the lab. Recurrent staffing costs have to be included too and will be the biggest cost.

Chiparus · 28-09-2018 12:08am

Rodin wrote: »

CUH to the airport is 10mins and that's in a car with no blue lights.

Ok , say 5 minutes, 120 min total/

Chiparus · 28-09-2018 12:17am

Rodin wrote: »

That's just to build the lab. Recurrent staffing costs have to be included too and will be the biggest cost.

The second lab is going ahead, the issue is staffing for the hours 5-9am and weekends.

A helicoptor lease and paying helicoptor staff on call would be a similar cost.
the new emergency helicoptor in Kerry costs 2 million a year to run ( excluding the cost of the HSE paramedics)

Gardner · 28-09-2018 8:04am

Rodin wrote: »

I am very familiar with it and the independent report that says a 2nd lab is not needed.
I am also aware of the tragic death that was hijacked in pushing the agent forward and the subsequent report that said no Cath lab could have saved that man.

probably the most factual thing in the whole thread. it was and still is a disgrace that certain campaigners still push this agenda

debok · 28-09-2018 9:11am

Yeh that was/is wrong to use that poor mans death. But maybe I'm wrong but was the first rally that his death was used for organised by his grieving sister. At the time a senior cardiologist in hospital said his death had nothing to di with the cath lab situation but people ignored him. I think the media jumped on it then and it got out of hand very quickly. Still doesn't take away from the needs of the area but it can be used as a stick to beat down the whole issue.

Deiseen · 28-09-2018 9:24am

debok wrote: »

Yeh that was/is wrong to use that poor mans death. But maybe I'm wrong but was the first rally that his death was used for organised by his grieving sister. At the time a senior cardiologist in hospital said his death had nothing to di with the cath lab situation but people ignored him. I think the media jumped on it then and it got out of hand very quickly. Still doesn't take away from the needs of the area but it can be used as a stick to beat down the whole issue.

I realise this, but how did they miss what was happening to him? Would he still have had to have been sent down to cork because they could not provide him treatment in Waterford even if he was diagnosed properly?

debok · 28-09-2018 9:40am

Deiseen wrote: »

I realise this, but how did they miss what was happening to him? Would he still have had to have been sent down to cork because they could not provide him treatment in Waterford even if he was diagnosed properly?

I think he could have had heart attack on the the table in the lab in cork and he still wouldn't have been saved. Different types of heart attacks cause different damage. Could have all the best labs and staff some attacks just can't be saved. I dont think they missed what was happening sometimes the damage to heart is too far gone

road_high · 28-09-2018 9:40am

Rodin wrote: »

''In addition, the report revealed that the average transfer times from Kilkenny to Dublin is “nowhere near the 88 minutes claimed in the Herity Report”, said SEPAG, “and in fact it is two hours 25 minutes, from UHW to CUH comes in at two hours 26 minutes, while the journey from Wexford to Dublin came to two and a half hours.''

Had a look at SEPAG's figures.
Average transfer time from Waterford City to Cork City is almost 2 1/2 hours? This of course is between 5pm and 9 am and at weekends.
What exactly are they driving?

Imagine they're including all the time it takes to stabilize and load/unload a patient. I doubt it's as simple as throwing someone in an ambulance and put the foot down!

debok · 28-09-2018 9:47am

road_high wrote: »

Imagine they're including all the time it takes to stabilize and load/unload a patient. I doubt it's as simple as throwing someone in an ambulance and put the foot down!

It's all explained in the prime time show which the thread was set up for .

Rodin · 28-09-2018 3:20pm

debok wrote: »

It's all explained in the prime time show which the thread was set up for .

Primetime doesn't have a good record when it comes to accuracy and full disclosure of facts when it comes to medical matters.

Bards · 28-09-2018 5:16pm

Rodin wrote: »

debok wrote: »

It's all explained in the prime time show which the thread was set up for .

Primetime doesn't have a good record when it comes to accuracy and full disclosure of facts when it comes to medical matters.

Neither does the HSE

South-East Health - Primetime

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