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South-East Health - Primetime

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 824 ✭✭✭ debok


    hardybuck wrote: »
    I was referring to population, as a matter of fact.

    You did say size of county though and not population.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    debok wrote: »
    You did say size of county though and not population.

    Cop on to yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭ Chiparus


    hardybuck wrote: »
    I was referring to population, as a matter of fact.

    The catchment of the Limerick hospital is 350,000, the catchment of UHW is 550,000.
    Limerick is within 90 miutes of two other Cardiac labs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    Chiparus wrote: »
    The catchment of the Limerick hospital is 350,000, the catchment of UHW is 550,000.
    Limerick is within 90 miutes of two other Cardiac labs.

    How many people in the SE are within an hour of Dublin or Cork?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭ Chiparus


    hardybuck wrote: »
    How many people in the SE are within an hour of Dublin or Cork?
    For cardiac care not many , no one from wexford , one patient from Killkenny and 2 from Waterford got to the treating hospitals within 90 minutes.
    Even that is a bit dodgy as it is supposed to be diagnosis to "wire passing" within 90 minutes -


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭ Rodin


    If anyone should be getting a cath lab it's the northwest.
    There's none in Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim.

    Should be one put there before any expansion in the southwest


  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭ invara


    Rodin wrote: »
    If anyone should be getting a cath lab it's the northwest.
    There's none in Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim.

    Should be one put there before any expansion in the southwest

    Everyone in the state should be within 1 hour (alarm to balloon) PCI service, the HSE standard is around 1.5hrs but the clearly do not hit it. The Northwest has access in Derry and Armagh which improves access for much of Donegal (shocking roads mean ambulance speeds are low) and north midlands https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/cross-border-cardiology-service-credited-with-saving-27-lives-1.2946855 . Sligo, Mayo and Leitrim are in a similar position to the 500k people of the SE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭ Rodin


    invara wrote: »
    Everyone in the state should be within 1 hour (alarm to balloon) PCI service, the HSE standard is around 1.5hrs but the clearly do not hit it. The Northwest has access in Derry and Armagh which improves access for much of Donegal (shocking roads mean ambulance speeds are low) and north midlands https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/cross-border-cardiology-service-credited-with-saving-27-lives-1.2946855 . Sligo, Mayo and Leitrim are in a similar position to the 500k people of the SE.

    Armagh?
    What cardiology services in Armagh cover Donegal?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭ Chiparus


    Rodin wrote: »
    If anyone should be getting a cath lab it's the northwest.
    There's none in Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim.

    Should be one put there before any expansion in the southwest

    There is a cath lab in Donegal ( Letterkenny) and it is shared service with Altnagelvin.
    http://www.westerntrust.hscni.net/about/3439.htm


  • Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭ azimuth17


    If the people in the north west want a cath lab (which they should have if figures justify it) they should fight for it. UHW is in south east with population of 500,000. The Northwest fight is with Dublin and its 21 or 22 cath labs and not with the south east.Rodin is obviously not fully familiar with the UHW/south east case.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭ Rodin


    Chiparus wrote: »
    There is a cath lab in Donegal ( Letterkenny) and it is shared service with Altnagelvin.
    http://www.westerntrust.hscni.net/about/3439.htm

    The Cath lab in Letterkenny is a mobile truck that visits only every Thursday for elective procedures. There is no Cath lab at any other time in Donegal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭ Rodin


    azimuth17 wrote: »
    If the people in the north west want a cath lab (which they should have if figures justify it) they should fight for it. UHW is in south east with population of 500,000. The Northwest fight is with Dublin and its 21 or 22 cath labs and not with the south east.Rodin is obviously not fully familiar with the UHW/south east case.

    I am very familiar with it and the independent report that says a 2nd lab is not needed.
    I am also aware of the tragic death that was hijacked in pushing the agent forward and the subsequent report that said no Cath lab could have saved that man.


  • Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭ Squidvicious


    Rodin wrote: »
    I am very familiar with it and the independent report that says a 2nd lab is not needed.
    I am also aware of the tragic death that was hijacked in pushing the agent forward and the subsequent report that said no Cath lab could have saved that man.

    I wonder how familiar you are with it? I think that many question the independence of the report. The Herity report stated as a target that patients reach a Cath lab within a 90 minute window. It went on to suggest that a patient could reach CUH from Waterford City within 90 minutes. Anyone living down here knows that this 90 minute travel time is hopelessly optimistic.
    http://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/set-herity-aside/
    The argument "sure, don't they need it up in Sligo also/even more" is irrelevant whataboutery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭ invara


    Rodin. Read the second word on the Herity report and come back to me attempting to stand over the quality of the "independent" report.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭ Chiparus


    Rodin wrote: »
    I am very familiar with it and the independent report that says a 2nd lab is not needed.
    I am also aware of the tragic death that was hijacked in pushing the agent forward and the subsequent report that said no Cath lab could have saved that man.

    Tell me if you had a STEMI or indeed a NOMI would you be happy to have thrombosislysis?


  • Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭ azimuth17


    Rodin's post exemplifies begrudgery at its worst. What part of the country has produced him and his miserable attitude? North west should fight its own battles rather than criticising the people of the south east who have fought fora service they are patently entitled to. He should check out SEPAG or HEFSE pages on Facebook.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭ Chiparus


    Rodin wrote: »
    The Cath lab in Letterkenny is a mobile truck that visits only every Thursday for elective procedures. There is no Cath lab at any other time in Donegal.

    Funny you said there was none.

    The problem for Donegal is that the population numbers does not support a stand alone cath lab, thats why there is a SLA with Derry. it is 25 min blue light to Altnagelvin form Letterkenny General.
    They had 15 MIs letterkenny in 2016. the vast majority got PPCI.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭ Rodin


    I wonder how familiar you are with it? I think that many question the independence of the report. The Herity report stated as a target that patients reach a Cath lab within a 90 minute window. It went on to suggest that a patient could reach CUH from Waterford City within 90 minutes. Anyone living down here knows that this 90 minute travel time is hopelessly optimistic.
    http://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/set-herity-aside/
    The argument "sure, don't they need it up in Sligo also/even more" is irrelevant whataboutery.

    The helicopters must be very slow down there and if an ambulance can't make a 122km trip in an hour and a half then perhaps it's a better road that's required.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭ Rodin


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Funny you said there was none.

    The problem for Donegal is that the population numbers does not support a stand alone cath lab, thats why there is a SLA with Derry. it is 25 min blue light to Altnagelvin form Letterkenny General.
    They had 15 MIs letterkenny in 2016. the vast majority got PPCI.

    I should have clarified. The lab in Letterkenny is diagnostic only, not therapeutic.
    Cardiothoracic backup is desirable when performing any stenting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭ Rodin


    azimuth17 wrote: »
    Rodin's post exemplifies begrudgery at its worst. What part of the country has produced him and his miserable attitude? North west should fight its own battles rather than criticising the people of the south east who have fought fora service they are patently entitled to. He should check out SEPAG or HEFSE pages on Facebook.

    No begrudgery at all.
    I simply feel that the resources should be given where there is most need first.
    And given there is no stenting in the north west, I think it should be there.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭ Johnboy1951


    Rodin wrote: »
    The helicopters must be very slow down there and if an ambulance can't make a 122km trip in an hour and a half then perhaps it's a better road that's required.

    The ignorance of the situation apparent in this post (and others) is unbelievable ..... except maybe it is posted by someone who has no understanding at all of the situation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭ Rodin


    The ignorance of the situation apparent in this post (and others) is unbelievable ..... except maybe it is posted by someone who has no understanding at all of the situation.

    The report's conclusions are quite clear.
    It states that the current lab at the time of the report wasn't even fully staffed never mind having a second one.

    It reminds me of the Shinners wanting to open a load of new gaelscoileanna in Derry when the current ones aren't even anywhere near full.
    Just a waste of resources.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭ Rodin


    azimuth17 wrote: »
    Rodin's post exemplifies begrudgery at its worst. What part of the country has produced him and his miserable attitude? North west should fight its own battles rather than criticising the people of the south east who have fought fora service they are patently entitled to. He should check out SEPAG or HEFSE pages on Facebook.

    ''In addition, the report revealed that the average transfer times from Kilkenny to Dublin is “nowhere near the 88 minutes claimed in the Herity Report”, said SEPAG, “and in fact it is two hours 25 minutes, from UHW to CUH comes in at two hours 26 minutes, while the journey from Wexford to Dublin came to two and a half hours.''

    Had a look at SEPAG's figures.
    Average transfer time from Waterford City to Cork City is almost 2 1/2 hours? This of course is between 5pm and 9 am and at weekends.
    What exactly are they driving?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭ Johnboy1951


    The ignorance of the situation apparent in this post (and others) is unbelievable ..... except maybe it is posted by someone who has no understanding at all of the situation.

    ...... and it continues in further posts ........


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭ Rodin


    ...... and it continues in further posts ........

    Feel free to qualify your opinion in any way...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭ Chiparus


    Rodin wrote: »
    The helicopters must be very slow down there and if an ambulance can't make a 122km trip in an hour and a half then perhaps it's a better road that's required.

    Problem is that the patient has to be loaded on an ambulance ( usual takes 10-15 minutes),
    the ambulance drives 20 mins to the Airport,
    unloads the patient from the ambulance and loads onto helicopter 15 mins ,
    flys to Cork airport 40 mins,
    unloads the pateint loads onto ambulance 15 mins.
    Drives to CUH 15 mins,
    Unloads in CUH transfer to Lab 10 mins

    total time 125 minutes

    They did use the helicopter, until they realised it was actually slower.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭ Rodin


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Problem is that the patient has to be loaded on an ambulance ( usual takes 10-15 minutes),
    the ambulance drives 20 mins to the Airport,
    unloads the patient from the ambulance and loads onto helicopter 15 mins ,
    flys to Cork airport 40 mins,
    unloads the pateint loads onto ambulance 15 mins.
    Drives to CUH 15 mins,
    Unloads in CUH transfer to Lab 10 mins

    total time 125 minutes

    They did use the helicopter, until they realised it was actually slower.

    CUH to the airport is 10mins and that's in a car with no blue lights.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭ Rodin


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Problem is that the patient has to be loaded on an ambulance ( usual takes 10-15 minutes),
    the ambulance drives 20 mins to the Airport,
    unloads the patient from the ambulance and loads onto helicopter 15 mins ,
    flys to Cork airport 40 mins,
    unloads the pateint loads onto ambulance 15 mins.
    Drives to CUH 15 mins,
    Unloads in CUH transfer to Lab 10 mins

    total time 125 minutes

    They did use the helicopter, until they realised it was actually slower.

    Be cheaper to build a helipad in each location.
    Handier too to have faster transport time to the regional neurosurgical unit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭ Chiparus


    Rodin wrote: »
    Be cheaper to build a helipad in each location.

    Not really , helipad is €1.8 million 3.6 million for two , cost of cath lab in UHW is 1.9 million.

    You also need a helicopter and this needs to be staffed 24/7. Coast guard cannot do the transfers anymore.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭ Rodin


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Not really , helipad is €1.8 million 3.6 million for two , cost of cath lab in UHW is 1.9 million.

    That's just to build the lab. Recurrent staffing costs have to be included too and will be the biggest cost.


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