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N4 - Mullingar to Rooskey [route options published]

24567

Comments

  • #32
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The idea of the motorway is to spur development in the northwest which in turn will raise traffic volumes.

    Not taking the logical step of simply extending the M4 and doing it properly would be very shortsighted.

    The Mullingar bypass is an example of everything wrong with planning in Ireland. It's the "what is the cheapest, shoddiest, short term, 2nd rate solution we can come up with?"

    I always say just do things properly like in proper countries.

    It's not hard and we don't have to come back to these projects again at vast expense.

    I want to see this scheme as full motorway to Roosky which is what the government promised the people of the northwest - a motorway.


  • #33
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    The idea of the motorway is to spur development in the northwest which in turn will raise traffic volumes.

    Not taking the logical step of simply extending the M4 and doing it properly would be very shortsighted.

    The Mullingar bypass is an example of everything wrong with planning in Ireland. It's the "what is the cheapest, shoddiest, short term, 2nd rate solution we can come up with?"

    I always say just do things properly like in proper countries.

    It's not hard and we don't have to come back to these projects again at vast expense.

    I want to see this scheme as full motorway to Roosky which is what the government promised the people of the northwest - a motorway.

    The DC will spur development just as much - and there will be decades of capacity for that. There is no need for a motorway - and there was never a promise for one either. The Mullingar Bypass was built to a high standard over two decades ago and is still perfectly sufficient capacity wise.

    You have a fetish for big infrastructure at all costs which, thankfully, planners do not. You have to get over it.


  • #34
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    L1011 wrote: »
    The DC will spur development just as much - and there will be decades of capacity for that. There is no need for a motorway - and there was never a promise for one either. The Mullingar Bypass was built to a high standard over two decades ago and is still perfectly sufficient capacity wise.

    You have a fetish for big infrastructure at all costs which, thankfully, planners do not. You have to get over it.

    No, I want things done properly. Simple.

    Luckily I think it will be motorway.


  • #35
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    No, I want things done properly. Simple.

    Luckily I think it will be motorway.

    You want things over-built to a US 1960s standard, which you are clearly obsessed with to an unhealthy level.

    It won't be motorway. If its even HQDC (green signs) to Longford I'd be surprised, but there will never be motorway to Roosky.


  • #36
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I think it will be motorway.

    I also think you need to get out of your parochial, rural mentality - a mindset that held the country back in development terms for 70+ years.

    Ireland is moving on thankfully.


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  • #37
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I think it will be motorway.

    I also think you need to get out of your parochial, rural mentality - a mindset that held the country back in development terms for 70+ years.

    Ireland is moving on thankfully.

    It won't be motorway.

    Not spending money on a completley overspecced road is not "parochial", its sensible. This isn't LA, thank ****.


  • #38
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I'm pretty sure it will be a motorway when the plans are ready.

    You are being parochial, you just don't realise it.

    We don't live in a second world, rural country anymore - thankfully but clearly there are still some of that mindset who don't like progress.


  • #39
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure it will be a motorway when the plans are ready.

    You are being parochial, you just don't realise it.

    We don't live in a second world, rural country anymore - thankfully but clearly there are still some of that mindset who don't like progress.

    You are delusional. Do you have any actual knowledge of road design processes or the traffic levels on this road?


  • #40
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    L1011 wrote: »
    You are delusional. Do you have any actual knowledge of road design processes or the traffic levels on this road?

    Yes, yes I do as a matter of fact.

    Here's your view of Ireland

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib1WMwCZjAM


  • #41
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Yes, yes I do as a matter of fact.

    Explain your rationale for requiring motorway over T2DC then. With traffic figures and statistically valid projections


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  • #42
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Every city in Ireland should be connected with a motorway. Sligo is no different. You seem to be suggesting that because traffic volumes might be below a treshold on parts of the route right now it should not be motorway.

    But that is not the point. If that was the criteria there would be huge gaps in highway systems all over the world.

    And as I said with it much easier and more attractive more people would opt to live further out and that will add to daily volumes.

    Parts of the M9 are under traffic volumes for a motorway but it is still a motorway to Waterford. Look at the M17. Daily traffic volumes between Mullingar and Roosky are TWICE that of the M17!

    I rest my case.


  • #43
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Every city in Ireland should be connected with a motorway. Sligo is no different. You seem to be suggesting that because traffic volumes might be below a treshold on parts of the route right now it should not be motorway.

    But that is not the point. If that was the criteria there would be huge gaps in highway systems all over the world.

    And as I said with it much easier and more attractive more people would opt to live further out and that will add to daily volumes.

    Parts of the M9 are under traffic volumes for a motorway but it is still a motorway to Waterford. Look at the M17. Daily traffic volumes between Mullingar and Roosky are TWICE that of the M17!

    I rest my case.

    So you don't have any actual road planning basis for it?

    That is why it won't be motorway. A T2DC is no less attractive than a motorway from a consistency of journey perspective.

    You are an obsessive. You have a problem that you really need to address.


  • #44
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    L1011 wrote: »
    So you don't have any actual road planning basis for it?

    That is why it won't be motorway. A T2DC is no less attractive than a motorway from a consistency of journey perspective.

    You are an obsessive. You have a problem that you really need to address.

    I see you want to ignore the fact pointed out to you and resort to insults.

    The figures are available here - knock yourself out.

    http://www.tii.ie/roads-tolling/operations-and-maintenance/traffic-count-data/

    It should be a motorway and i'm pretty confident it will be.

    Personally i'd have 6 lanes to Sligo but that can wait. :D


  • #45
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I see you want to ignore the fact pointed out

    That there is another road that was built ridiculously above spec is not justification to do it again. Its actually good reason not to repeat the mistakes.


  • #46
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    L1011 wrote: »
    That there is another road that was built ridiculously above spec is not justification to do it again. Its actually good reason not to repeat the mistakes.

    I see you have zero intention of addressing the points I made.

    I provided a link for you to check out of the traffic count data. This road can easily be a motorway and should be.


  • #47
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I see you have zero intention of addressing the points I made.

    I provided a link for you to check out of the traffic count data. This road can easily be a motorway and should be.

    The traffic figures do not even come close to justifying a motorway. I addressed that many, many posts ago.


  • #48
    Quackster
    Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 5,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quackster


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Every city in Ireland should be connected with a motorway. Sligo is no different.

    Sligo. City? :rolleyes:


  • #49
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,062 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Every city in Ireland should be connected with a motorway. Sligo is no different. You seem to be suggesting that because traffic volumes might be below a treshold on parts of the route right now it should not be motorway.

    Sligo is a town of 20,000 people, not a city.


  • #50
    jhenno78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭jhenno78


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Every city in Ireland should be connected with a motorway.
    Every city is connected to a motorway.


  • #51
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    No they are not all connected. There is no motorway between Naas and Dublin and between Leixlip and Dublin.

    Sligo must be connected too and on to Letterkenny with a motorway through Donegal.


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  • #52
    BelfastVanMan
    Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭BelfastVanMan


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    No they are not all connected. There is no motorway between Naas and Dublin and between Leixlip and Dublin.

    Sligo must be connected too and on to Letterkenny with a motorway through Donegal.

    The N7 is near-motorway standard between Naas and Dublin, is 6 lanes and will be upgraded to Motorway within the next few years, so is hardly a good example..


  • #53
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    "Near" is not good enough. M7 and M4 should be merged in to one 12 lane highway approaching the M50 and with a super junction between the existing junctions.

    Then we can detrunk the existing roads.


  • #54
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    "Near" is not good enough. M7 and M4 should be merged in to one 12 lane highway approaching the M50 and with a super junction between the existing junctions.

    Then we can detrunk the existing roads.

    What do you propose to demolish for this fantasy?


  • #55
    jhenno78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭jhenno78


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    "Near" is not good enough. M7 and M4 should be merged in to one 12 lane highway approaching the M50 and with a super junction between the existing junctions.

    Just to check; do you want traffic to actually move or do you think it'd be better for everyone to just sit in their cars until the next day, rather than getting home?


  • #56
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    There is already a reserved alignment I seem to remember approaching the M50 near Park West. We just make it a little bigger. CPO what needs CPOing.


  • #57
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    There is already a reserved alignment I seem to remember approaching the M50 near Park West. We just make it a little bigger. CPO what needs CPOing.

    That is long since gone. There is no reserved alignment anymore and what was there was for 2x2.

    Identify the route and the properties to CPO and we can work out a rough cost.


  • #58
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,733 ✭✭✭SeanW


    It really needs to be Motorway to the N4-N5 split - only after that does the traffic divide roughly in half. Before that IIRC the numbers do justify Motorway.


  • #59
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    jhenno78 wrote: »
    Every city is connected to a motorway.


    except Derry, of course.


    Mullingar to Longford probably warrents motorway or at least HQDC like south of Mullingar, beyond Longford 2+2.


  • #60
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,062 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    "Near" is not good enough. M7 and M4 should be merged in to one 12 lane highway approaching the M50 and with a super junction between the existing junctions.

    Then we can detrunk the existing roads.

    Our aim should be to discourage car use, and encourage modal shift in cities.

    Building 12 lane roads is not the future.


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  • #61
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    MOD: A bit late but can we please return to the N4 scheme and not the M4/M7 in Dublin or building ridiculously overspecced roads. Please bear in mind that the N4 between Mullingar and Longford carries 13,000 vehicles a day, and comparing it to I405 is really of no benefit to the discussion.


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