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N4 - Mullingar to Rooskey [route options published]

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,702 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    It is ridiculous to be designing projects which you don't even have the money to design, which is exactly what is happening here. They absolutely don't do that anywhere else. The solution is properly profiled and realistic spending plans and only progressing that which can realistically be delivered in the foreseeable future.

    To get around the problem of limited funding but lots of projects needing funding, we are drip feeding funding to to keep projects on lists to keep people satisfied. They will crawl along the planning process for the rest of the decade with nothing meaningful happening.

    Next year, we will likely spend more on designing road projects than actual construction. That would absolutely be ridiculous. It just creates a bigger backlog of projects looking for increased but still limited funding later. It is likely that some of these designed projects will sit on the shelf waiting for hundreds of millions of funding to be made available for so long that they will become out of date, permissions expire and have to be designed again. It has happened before. The other risk is that the mega project doesn't pass PSC gateways and the really necessary part of the project gets dragged down by the nice to have parts.

    The way to avoid that would be to phase the project, basically just build a part of it for which absolutely needs to be done and is small enough to fit within funding envelopes. If it ends up like that, it would have been better to have pursued that part of the project earlier as a standalone.

    Your comparison to having to upgrade the junctions on the M50 is in no way relevant. There is no way that 40km of new N4 is going to be built in one go anyway. The design now will likely be split at points where it touches the existing N4, no reason those sections couldn't be looked at separately while still allowing for further construction later. The initial part of the M18 finished at a junction with an extra bit of motorway built so the future section was just a continuation of that. Budget has to be one of the main considerations, this project is already falling victim to budget limitations and it is only looking for relatively small amounts of funding now!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Designing schemes piecemeal is a really bad idea. And I never said that construction would be all in one go: actually, my point was the opposite - design the whole thing first, then divide it into buildable projects, so we're not disagreeing there. That way you don't end up building redundant sections of road that you very soon bypass (like spending millions on a brand-new N9 alignment at Moone and Timolin, then as soon as it was open, designing a motorway that would bypass that bypass).

    You can't phase construction of a project if you haven't designed all of it.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,562 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The Moone Bypass got 9 years (and 9 days - both openings are recent enough to have online articles about them) as being the N9 at least.

    The N4 Enfield Relief Road had under 3 years! Kinnegad's N6-only relief road got 7.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,702 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The motorway network was designed and built piecemeal and it turned out alright. You just decide where to begin and end a particular section, then end it in a suitable way to later extend while having an appropriate junction with the existing road.

    In the case of the N4 Mullingar to Rooskey, after the main route selection, they should select part of it for planning and delivery now. Bringing the whole lot through design is pointless as a) the funding isn't available to even design all of it and b) the funding won't be available to build it for a long time, probably into the next decade.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    It's abundantly clear that large scale road projects will be in a holding pattern nationwide until after the departure of Eamon Ryan in 2025.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,702 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Ryans departure will make no difference, the annual budget under the next minister still wont be sufficient to deliver a project like this plus all the others. There this already several billion € worth of projects for construction from 26 on but the annual budget will only be several hundred thousand. Those "in a holding pattern" aren't getting built any time soon regardless of the minister of the day.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Budgets change quickly along with political priorities.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,702 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Not to the extent which would be required. Between 2020 and 2026, we will have commenced 4 €100m+ projects, there are about 10 such projects (not including N4 Mullingar-Rooskey) planned to commence between 26 and 30. Some of them are several hundred million € projects and the M20 would be €1bn on its own. And there are also lots of smaller but significant projects to consider as well (e.g. Slane bypass, Ardee bypass, etc.).

    Basically, even with a big bidget increase, the next minister will struggle to get all the current pipeline started, nevermind adding more projects. For context, the roads budget for next year is to be €145m, at least €500m will be needed each year just to get through what is intended to be built.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭Standard Toaster


    Any movement on this project?

    All I found was this article:

    People in the midlands are frustrated by the Department of Transport's €100m underspend when just two per cent of that figure, would be enough to progress the the N4 Mullingar to Roosky project.

    That's what Longford Westmeath TD Robert Troy is saying after It was confirmed by both the Taoiseach and Tainaste that any underspend could be redirected to progress the N4 road upgrade.

    The Fianna Fáil rep also discussed the discontent over a lack of support for transport for people with a disability.

    Deputy Troy says the cost of the road is a fraction of the underspend:



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,562 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    No, and it won't ever be a priority with the current Minister.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    That €100 M underspend also includes a pile of public transport and active transport projects that aren’t moving. There seems to be a reluctance to spend money from the current Minister, regardless of purpose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,385 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Sadly not any time soon. There’s no drive or will to build new roads- this is all would up in the various excuses and knots. In the 2000s there was a determined priority from the top to develop good roads. It’s pretty much the opposite now, any excuse not to build them



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭Standard Toaster



    Funding of in the region of €2 million to take the long awaited N4 upgrade to the next stage will be included in this year’s TII roads announcement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭cartoncowboy


    Seems this years road allocations are being leaked by all the TDs, with Frank Feighan making similar noises about the N17. The TDs love claiming credit, wonder if there is an election coming :-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭Standard Toaster



    Calls have been made at every level with local Councillors, Senators and TDs pushing for movement on the scheme.

    1.4 million euro has been allocated to the long sought upgrade of the N4 Mullingar to Longford Bypass project.

    Work on the project was paused over 17 months ago, with fears the design process and works would not materialise.

    Calls have been made at every level with local Councillors, Senators and TDs pushing for movement on the scheme.


    As part of the TII Road Project allocations for 2024, the funding has been allocated to Westmeath County Council to refine the route selection process.

    Reacting to the news today, Longford Westmeath Fianna Fail TD Joe Flaherty says the TII support will see major progress towards a final route selection.

    Speaking to Let's Talk today, Deputy Flaherty says the 1.4 million euro will keep the project rolling




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭Standard Toaster


    I thought the route was already selected.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,562 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    On the current generation of plans, the corridor was, final route not

    Whatever there exists from the late 00s plans is irrelevant now due to different regulations



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