N4 - Mullingar to Rooskey [route options published]

marno21

Can't find any other thread on this, currently suspended, scheme.

Longford-Westmeath TD Peter Burke is calling on this scheme to be progressed to allow the Midlands to compete, in his words.

http://www.midlands103.com/news-centre/burke-says-midlands-must-given-fair-chance-compete/

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

Can't find any other thread on this, currently suspended, scheme.

Longford-Westmeath TD Peter Burke is calling on this scheme to be progressed to allow the Midlands to compete, in his words.

http://www.midlands103.com/news-centre/burke-says-midlands-must-given-fair-chance-compete/

There was talk about it pre recession. I've heard nothing since then at all. I'd say it's a good decade away, that's being optimistic. I often travel to longford and the N4 is at breaking point. Added to by very slow, frustrating driving habits along the route. Often been sat in rows and rows of traffic as you meet the M4 at Mullingar, I'd say ADDTs are very high

marno21

This scheme has been reactivated by TII. €400k allocation in 2018.

Will likely be part of the new Capital Plan.

The Dromod-Carrick section is in there also, which will mean continuous dual carriageway from north of Carrick to the M50

Kermit.de.frog

Will this be an actual motorway or a fudge?

marno21

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Will this be an actual motorway or a fudge?

It hasn't been decided yet but likely actual motorway, or motorway standard 120km/h dual carriageway, between Mullingar and Longford and 2+2 north of there

roadmaster

marno21 wrote: »

It hasn't been decided yet but likely actual motorway, or motorway standard 120km/h dual carriageway, between Mullingar and Longford and 2+2 north of there

If its going to be motorway and not Type 2 it will be a huge job. When you come to the end of the dual carriageway sligo bound the new motorway cant go to the left as lough owl is there so it will have to go to the right. The problem is its all hills heading to Multyfarnam so a lot of digging ahead. Also it will be a case of still having dual between the start of this job and the M4 as they wont be able to upgrade the current mullingar bypass.

marno21

roadmaster wrote: »

If its going to be motorway and not Type 2 it will be a huge job. When you come to the end of the dual carriageway sligo bound the new motorway cant go to the left as lough owl is there so it will have to go to the right. The problem is its all hills heading to Multyfarnam so a lot of digging ahead. Also it will be a case of still having dual between the start of this job and the M4 as they wont be able to upgrade the current mullingar bypass.

Route is published here:

http://www.longfordcoco.ie/Services/Roads/N4-Mullingar-to-Longford/

Mullingar bypass would be ok for motorway aside from the service stations which could be redesignated MSAs (the Lidl is still an issue westbound)

The stretch between the M4 and the Mullingar bypass would be a problem alright

roadmaster

marno21 wrote: »

Route is published here:

http://www.longfordcoco.ie/Services/Roads/N4-Mullingar-to-Longford/

Mullingar bypass would be ok for motorway aside from the service stations which could be redesignated MSAs (the Lidl is still an issue westbound)

The stretch between the M4 and the Mullingar bypass would be a problem alright

I may have got this very wrong but i taught you could not change a road to motorway unless you can provide an alternate route for vehicles not allowed travel on motorway?


just had a look at the drawings interesting route with alot of side roads and railway crossings. By going this way would you be looking at some buildings getting a cpo?

Middle Man

marno21 wrote: »

It hasn't been decided yet but likely actual motorway, or motorway standard 120km/h dual carriageway, between Mullingar and Longford and 2+2 north of there

That's what I'm seriously hoping for!

marno21

What I'll make clear is that the final alignment and route standard aren't decided yet - but the traffic levels near Mullingar are making a case for a motorway or motorway standard road.

What'd likely happen with the wide S2 stretches is they would be used in their entirety or else narrowed to 80km/h 6m wide S2 and the rest used as part of the route.

Freddypaccman

marno21 wrote: »

Route is published here:

http://www.longfordcoco.ie/Services/Roads/N4-Mullingar-to-Longford/

Mullingar bypass would be ok for motorway aside from the service stations which could be redesignated MSAs (the Lidl is still an issue westbound)

The stretch between the M4 and the Mullingar bypass would be a problem alright

From looking at the route drawings, if thats the route they take, it will sort out the N55 immediately south of Edgworthstown. That bit with level crossing is an ugly stretch imo. I'll be glad to see the back of it

Donegal Storm

I've driven this route quite a lot recently and it's a very frustrating drive from Longford to the start of the DC, 70kph bumper to bumper the whole way with frequent braking. Good to hear it's being reactivated, the sooner it's upgraded the better

marno21

According to tomorrow's Sunday Times, this has been included in the 10 year Capital Plan as far as at least Longford.

Detailed design will begin in 2019. 2022 start at the earliest.

The remainder beyond Longford to the start of the 2007 Dromod-Roosky scheme is another 10km. You'd hope they'd include that too for the sake of 10km.

L1011

If this is built to a sensible route it is implausible to stop at Longford as you will be stopping in open countryside before sending traffic down a link road to the existing Longford bypass and through Newtownforbes.

The modern naming of schemes by the bigger towns near the ends rather than the actual ends may be at play in the reports - "Gort to Tuam" bypassed Tuam for instance.

marno21

L1011 wrote: »

If this is built to a sensible route it is implausible to stop at Longford as you will be stopping in open countryside before sending traffic down a link road to the existing Longford bypass and through Newtownforbes.

The modern naming of schemes by the bigger towns near the ends rather than the actual ends may be at play in the reports - "Gort to Tuam" bypassed Tuam for instance.

I agree, given the DC further up they may as well continue to Roosky.

This scheme has been referred to as N4 Mullingar to Longford (Roosky) in the past so maybe it's just poor reporting. All will become clear on Friday anyway

marno21

Confirmation from RTE that this scheme is in the Capital Plan

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/0216/941116-govt-project-2040-plan/

marno21

This was included in the National Development Plan in a list of 24 suspended schemes which would be prioritised accordingly due to lack of funding.

Of the 24 schemes, 3 schemes have been fully reactivated (N13, N14 and N15 in Donegal). Of the remaining 21, 18 of these received funding of 25k in 2018 and three received 400k: Two N2 schemes in Monaghan and this scheme.

If precedent is correct, this scheme will be restarted shortly as the funding of 400k is sufficient to get this started on Phases 1-4 (feasibility, route selection, design & statutory process) by the end of 2018.

Watch this space.

marno21

According to the TII website, this project has now moved into the pre-appraisal stage where the project will be assessed to see if it merits prioritisation for funding under the National Development Plan. I fully expect this to enter full planning by the end of 2018.

roadmaster

marno21 wrote: »

According to the TII website, this project has now moved into the pre-appraisal stage where the project will be assessed to see if it merits prioritisation for funding under the National Development Plan. I fully expect this to enter full planning by the end of 2018.

Marno do you think they would include the upgrade of the mullingar N4 Bypass in it to Motorway and the necessary new roads back as far as the Downs to allow non motorway traffic in to Mullingar or would that be a separate project if it went ahead ?

annfield1978

marno21 wrote: »

According to the TII website, this project has now moved into the pre-appraisal stage where the project will be assessed to see if it merits prioritisation for funding under the National Development Plan. I fully expect this to enter full planning by the end of 2018.

Movement coming shortly

marno21

roadmaster wrote: »

Marno do you think they would include the upgrade of the mullingar N4 Bypass in it to Motorway and the necessary new roads back as far as the Downs to allow non motorway traffic in to Mullingar or would that be a separate project if it went ahead ?

I would like to see this happen but it's too early to tell.

Kermit.de.frog

Should be motorway from the Downs to Roosky.

Or else we'd have another "Athlone gap"

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Should be motorway from the Downs to Roosky.

Or else we'd have another "Athlone gap"

It'll be mostly T2DC, as Roosky already is.

Drifter50

I guess some of the posters here don`t travel this road that much but I do several times a week. To say the N4 is 70 kph along this is stretching it, I find it to be 90/100 kph most of the time so I don`t see the huge issue. Also the road strengthening that took place from Edgeworthstown to Longford that took place recently has improved speed on this part in the last month

Surely the most important part of the N4 that must be tackled is Carrick on Shannon. Crazy at this stage that we all queue into Carrick and wind over the tiny bridge.

This has added back 30 mins at busy times to the Dublin Sligo route over the last few years negating any progress made.

roadmaster

L1011 wrote: »

It'll be mostly T2DC, as Roosky already is.

I am probably took this up wrong from someone but are they putting hard shoulders on the roosky bypass?

L1011

roadmaster wrote: »

I am probably took this up wrong from someone but are they putting hard shoulders on the roosky bypass?

No. Some locals have asked for it but it isn't going to happen

D Trent

L1011 wrote: »

No. Some locals have asked for it but it isn't going to happen

Intermittent lay-bys were completed on the bypasd earlier this year.

L1011

Additional ones? There were already some

Kermit.de.frog

L1011 wrote: »

It'll be mostly T2DC, as Roosky already is.

So you're saying this scheme from Mullingar will not be an extension of the M4 then?

Marno seemed very confident it would be.

BelfastVanMan

I think it's to be HQDC as far as Longford, 2+2 thereafter.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So you're saying this scheme from Mullingar will not be an extension of the M4 then?

Marno seemed very confident it would be.

There would be expensive CPOs required to extend the M4 to the end of the Mullingar BP to begin with which would not bring safety benefits.

Traffic levels do not justify HQDC to Roosky either.

Kermit.de.frog

The idea of the motorway is to spur development in the northwest which in turn will raise traffic volumes.

Not taking the logical step of simply extending the M4 and doing it properly would be very shortsighted.

The Mullingar bypass is an example of everything wrong with planning in Ireland. It's the "what is the cheapest, shoddiest, short term, 2nd rate solution we can come up with?"

I always say just do things properly like in proper countries.

It's not hard and we don't have to come back to these projects again at vast expense.

I want to see this scheme as full motorway to Roosky which is what the government promised the people of the northwest - a motorway.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The idea of the motorway is to spur development in the northwest which in turn will raise traffic volumes.

Not taking the logical step of simply extending the M4 and doing it properly would be very shortsighted.

The Mullingar bypass is an example of everything wrong with planning in Ireland. It's the "what is the cheapest, shoddiest, short term, 2nd rate solution we can come up with?"

I always say just do things properly like in proper countries.

It's not hard and we don't have to come back to these projects again at vast expense.

I want to see this scheme as full motorway to Roosky which is what the government promised the people of the northwest - a motorway.

The DC will spur development just as much - and there will be decades of capacity for that. There is no need for a motorway - and there was never a promise for one either. The Mullingar Bypass was built to a high standard over two decades ago and is still perfectly sufficient capacity wise.

You have a fetish for big infrastructure at all costs which, thankfully, planners do not. You have to get over it.

Kermit.de.frog

L1011 wrote: »

The DC will spur development just as much - and there will be decades of capacity for that. There is no need for a motorway - and there was never a promise for one either. The Mullingar Bypass was built to a high standard over two decades ago and is still perfectly sufficient capacity wise.

You have a fetish for big infrastructure at all costs which, thankfully, planners do not. You have to get over it.

No, I want things done properly. Simple.

Luckily I think it will be motorway.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No, I want things done properly. Simple.

Luckily I think it will be motorway.

You want things over-built to a US 1960s standard, which you are clearly obsessed with to an unhealthy level.

It won't be motorway. If its even HQDC (green signs) to Longford I'd be surprised, but there will never be motorway to Roosky.

Kermit.de.frog

I think it will be motorway.

I also think you need to get out of your parochial, rural mentality - a mindset that held the country back in development terms for 70+ years.

Ireland is moving on thankfully.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I think it will be motorway.

I also think you need to get out of your parochial, rural mentality - a mindset that held the country back in development terms for 70+ years.

Ireland is moving on thankfully.

It won't be motorway.

Not spending money on a completley overspecced road is not "parochial", its sensible. This isn't LA, thank ****.

Kermit.de.frog

I'm pretty sure it will be a motorway when the plans are ready.

You are being parochial, you just don't realise it.

We don't live in a second world, rural country anymore - thankfully but clearly there are still some of that mindset who don't like progress.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it will be a motorway when the plans are ready.

You are being parochial, you just don't realise it.

We don't live in a second world, rural country anymore - thankfully but clearly there are still some of that mindset who don't like progress.

You are delusional. Do you have any actual knowledge of road design processes or the traffic levels on this road?

Kermit.de.frog

L1011 wrote: »

You are delusional. Do you have any actual knowledge of road design processes or the traffic levels on this road?

Yes, yes I do as a matter of fact.

Here's your view of Ireland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib1WMwCZjAM

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Yes, yes I do as a matter of fact.

Explain your rationale for requiring motorway over T2DC then. With traffic figures and statistically valid projections

Kermit.de.frog

Every city in Ireland should be connected with a motorway. Sligo is no different. You seem to be suggesting that because traffic volumes might be below a treshold on parts of the route right now it should not be motorway.

But that is not the point. If that was the criteria there would be huge gaps in highway systems all over the world.

And as I said with it much easier and more attractive more people would opt to live further out and that will add to daily volumes.

Parts of the M9 are under traffic volumes for a motorway but it is still a motorway to Waterford. Look at the M17. Daily traffic volumes between Mullingar and Roosky are TWICE that of the M17!

I rest my case.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Every city in Ireland should be connected with a motorway. Sligo is no different. You seem to be suggesting that because traffic volumes might be below a treshold on parts of the route right now it should not be motorway.

But that is not the point. If that was the criteria there would be huge gaps in highway systems all over the world.

And as I said with it much easier and more attractive more people would opt to live further out and that will add to daily volumes.

Parts of the M9 are under traffic volumes for a motorway but it is still a motorway to Waterford. Look at the M17. Daily traffic volumes between Mullingar and Roosky are TWICE that of the M17!

I rest my case.

So you don't have any actual road planning basis for it?

That is why it won't be motorway. A T2DC is no less attractive than a motorway from a consistency of journey perspective.

You are an obsessive. You have a problem that you really need to address.

Kermit.de.frog

L1011 wrote: »

So you don't have any actual road planning basis for it?

That is why it won't be motorway. A T2DC is no less attractive than a motorway from a consistency of journey perspective.

You are an obsessive. You have a problem that you really need to address.

I see you want to ignore the fact pointed out to you and resort to insults.

The figures are available here - knock yourself out.

http://www.tii.ie/roads-tolling/operations-and-maintenance/traffic-count-data/

It should be a motorway and i'm pretty confident it will be.

Personally i'd have 6 lanes to Sligo but that can wait.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I see you want to ignore the fact pointed out

That there is another road that was built ridiculously above spec is not justification to do it again. Its actually good reason not to repeat the mistakes.

Kermit.de.frog

L1011 wrote: »

That there is another road that was built ridiculously above spec is not justification to do it again. Its actually good reason not to repeat the mistakes.

I see you have zero intention of addressing the points I made.

I provided a link for you to check out of the traffic count data. This road can easily be a motorway and should be.

L1011

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I see you have zero intention of addressing the points I made.

I provided a link for you to check out of the traffic count data. This road can easily be a motorway and should be.

The traffic figures do not even come close to justifying a motorway. I addressed that many, many posts ago.

Quackster

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Every city in Ireland should be connected with a motorway. Sligo is no different.

Sligo. City? :rolleyes:

Geuze

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Every city in Ireland should be connected with a motorway. Sligo is no different. You seem to be suggesting that because traffic volumes might be below a treshold on parts of the route right now it should not be motorway.

Sligo is a town of 20,000 people, not a city.

jhenno78

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Every city in Ireland should be connected with a motorway.

Every city is connected to a motorway.

Kermit.de.frog

No they are not all connected. There is no motorway between Naas and Dublin and between Leixlip and Dublin.

Sligo must be connected too and on to Letterkenny with a motorway through Donegal.