Sub 2.50 - and beyond!

Jmcmen wrote:

Put in this years training and time and it gave me a time 16sec better than my PB and nearly 4mins slower than my Target of 2:45

Jmcmen wrote:

Then Put in last years training and times and it gave me 5min slower than I did for the PB of 2:49

Best of luck in 3 weeks

Peterx wrote: »

Posted this in sub 3 thread also
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/marathon-calculator/
Anyone any opinions on it, good , bad or indifferent....

It has put the spotlight on mileage big time. What I took from it was you can bluff your way to short hillruns or up to half marathon on the road with low mileage but for a good strong marathon you should either be supremely talented (0.05%) or get the miles in (99.5%)

I now plan to get the miles in

That was accurate for my marathon stats back in 2012. I put in a 10k time I did 4 weeks out (difficult course) and my mileage avaerage for 3 months (was very high, 95 I think). Prediction was within seconds of actual time.

You may be doing this already I would use whatever manual easy cycling to easy running converter you use and take the result off your easy running mileage.
If you are cycling easy once or twice a day then I would just do a single run per day.
The controlled volume of running should be a cause of adaption and you need to be slightly pushing the envelope there.
That should allow you to improve at the long/medium long steady runs at 10-5% or so slower than marathon pace. On high mileage, hanging on at the end of these is gold and will help marathon pace (and indeed even 10k strenght).
An alternative to the steady grind on flat ground is doing a hilly steady or progression run.
I used to do an external road lap of Killiney/Dalkey park of 5km. Slightly faster each lap. 3 laps first time, then 4 second time. Hill puts a little bit of lactic in the legs which you run off going down. This might be a good way to improve or help you transition/stave off the flat grind.
Any LT stuff you do, dont grind too much: just add volume the next time. Nice and controlled.
If youre feeling stiff etc, get the stretch in early. Recovery runs: get the mobility back, stretch, losing a lot by running them with a stiff affected gait.
If youre feeling you need a bit of bounce, dont overdo any speed stuff: a few strides just to enable you to do the current training well. Just keep the plates spinning.

Thats all I can think of for now

Peterx wrote: »

Thanks for that T Runner, very informative.

A chap I follow on strava did a 68 minute tempo recently. Whilst I was impressed I did wonder was it too long.

I plan to run 48 minutes at half marathon pace later today and 32km on Sunday at your suggestion of PMP + 10%.

Could I ask your (or anyone else's) thoughts on how long is long enough for a tempo run and also what is the right pace?

I have gotten befuddled this week, probably read too many conflicting articles. Some say 10k pace, some say half marathon pace, some say PMP minus 10~15 seconds per km.

I am making up a rough rule of thumb for those ones.
I would say run at the pace you could run all out for double the time.
So 48m x 2 = 96m Maybe 25k race pace? Or first 2k @ 30k race pace and go with how you feel. IMO this should not be a killer session, youll need concentration near the end is all not hanging on.
THe hard sessions should be the ones closest to MP, and the duration should be what gets to you. So youre endurance is challenged at around MP.
Next time you add a bit more etc.
I did most of these runs slightly slower than MP but I was kinda making it up as I went along.
So 3 laps of Killiney = 15k, a month later 4 laps = 20k
Also did my work around back of Killiney to my house. Worked out about 23k and a MP + 2-3%. Then 3 weeks later 26k. So did about 5 fast runs that progressed in that medium long range.
Dont get tied to the %s go hard but sustainable for the required distance. Start conservative to make it sustainable.Unless its an easy run.
THe 48 min run is a great one for strenght and endurance.
If you progress to longer faster runs medium lenght and the long runs you are doing: They are fade eliminators: They knock a couple of minutes off the end of a marathon and the fitness from them knock another couple.
Also they are a great base for the really hard sessions. Long races or MP runs.
I'm available to join you for any of the hard sessions for pacing etc. Ive eaten my body weight in the few days since the warriors run. Needs to stop. Sad!

DC. wrote: »

Aiming for sub 2:40 in Dublin. Coach thinks it’s possible. Belfast Half will give me a rough guide. Ran 56min for 10 mile back in July.

What are you looking to do the Half in? If racing....... 1.16? A bit faster?

Jmcmen wrote: »

Put in this years training and time and it gave me a time 16sec better than my PB and nearly 4mins slower than my Target of 2:45

Then Put in last years training and times and it gave me 5min slower than I did for the PB of 2:49:D

So yes Confused. Will let you know in 3 weeks though

Just a little update on the predictor...

So I managed a 2.47 which is faster than the predicted time and slower than my target of 2.45.
I was bang on until 17mile when I got a cramp in Hammer(never happened before) which made me stop for a stretch and then had to drag myself home as I was physically and mentally broke, with the tummy going into knots then to boot.

Gave it a solid lash though.

Need to have a think on what to do next and what would I change

ultrapercy wrote: »

Maybe dont change anything. Do more of the same just more of it?

Cheers ultra, only thing is I dunno where I would get more time. Plus I ramped up the mileage this year compared to last already. More again I suppose, and more quality within too I think

Jmcmen wrote: »

Need to have a think on what to do next and what would I change

What do you think caused the hammer to go at 17m - normally you are so strong -I don't think it was the pace that done it nor the mileage or quality of training.

You ran a super R&R HM (1:18??) 5 weeks out - how'd that recovery go?
Also - was your taper sufficient?

I'm not sure if it makes a huge difference to bio mechanics, but did you do a lot of MP work on hills as opposed to the flat?

I would think repeating the same training again would yield better results now that that race is in the legs.

Also Maybe lose the Donegal shirt in the after race pics

ultrapercy wrote: »

Jmcmen wrote: »

Just a little update on the predictor...

So I managed a 2.47 which is faster than the predicted time and slower than my target of 2.45.
I was bang on until 17mile when I got a cramp in Hammer(never happened before) which made me stop for a stretch and then had to drag myself home as I was physically and mentally broke, with the tummy going into knots then to boot.

Gave it a solid lash though.

Need to have a think on what to do next and what would I change

Maybe dont change anything. Do more of the same just more of it?

Probably in the wrong thread here but put my numbers in before Berlin and it said 3.10 based on 58 miles a week and a 10 mile pb of 1.04.40. Came home in 3.05.31 and lost a minute in the last 2 miles, fading fast. The predictor doesn’t take intensity of workouts into account so my 58 miles with 16 @ MP isn’t the same as 58 miles with 6@MP.

Like the advice of maybe change little and go through the phases again.

healy1835 wrote: »

Giving this thread a bit of a bump as we approach Spring marathon season. I know one or two Boardsies (AuldManKing, Duanington) will probably be targeting close to 2:50 and im sure there are more, and one or two others, myself included, will be going again in the Autumn.

Would be good to compare & contrast build ups and training schedules, races etc, see where different guys are coming from as regards backgrounds, race times over other distances etc.

I'm coming off a block for DCM, where I ran a slightly disappointing 2:58 PB, which included a Sub 80 Half and a 60min 10 Miler. Have followed up this year with decent pbs over 5 Miles (28:22) & 10k (36:51). Currently about to begin training for Limerick Half in May, before DCM block starts over the summer. Planning on running Londom 2020 on a GFA entry, so lots to think about

Good idea on opening up this thread again. Be very interested to see what everyone is doing. I’m hoping to cut a bit off my pb but sub 2:50 is a stretch. We’ll see. Spring marathons aren’t easy but I’m gunning for Belfast in may

healy1835 wrote: »

. Planning on running London 2020 on a GFA entry

Never knew you could go through with the Good Friday Agreement. Amazing

squinn2912 wrote: »

Good idea on opening up this thread again. Be very interested to see what everyone is doing. I’m hoping to cut a bit off my pb but sub 2:50 is a stretch. We’ll see. Spring marathons aren’t easy but I’m gunning for Belfast in may

What sort of running have you been doing since Dublin?? Planning many changes for Belfast block vs DCM training?

healy1835 wrote: »

So would that plan have 1 session midweek and then a Long Run where you'd be working very hard?

Yep

An example of the midweek sessions:

2 x 3mile Tempo
4x2miles Tempo (2 mins)
8x5mins T (30 secs)
60 mins easy + 6x6 mins Tempo

An Example of the Weekend

15m MP + WU/CD (two or 3 times in coming weeks)
4x5min Tempo + 10 miles easy + 4x5mins Tempo
2.5 hour long run (2 more times)
2x2miles Tempo + 10 miles Easy + 3m Tempo

I probably wont do a straight 15m MP - I'll do a broken run at MP or Steady pace as I done for DCM.

AuldManKing wrote: »

Yep

An example of the midweek sessions:

2 x 3mile Tempo
4x2miles Tempo (2 mins)
8x5mins T (30 secs)
60 mins easy + 6x6 mins Tempo

An Example of the Weekend

15m MP + WU/CD (two or 3 times in coming weeks)
4x5min Tempo + 10 miles easy + 4x5mins Tempo
2.5 hour long run (2 more times)
2x2miles Tempo + 10 miles Easy + 3m Tempo

I probably wont do a straight 15m MP - I'll do a broken run at MP or Steady pace as I done for DCM.

Christ there's some monster midweek sessions. What pace are you doing tempo?